Here we are in this fine HiTECK society, and with all this great New
Trucking radio systems are not worth a **** in a real emergency like in the
Big Easy, and the police can not talk anywhere. Car to Car does not work
either.
Hell CB would work better or something. All police should have a backup
simplex Radio to use if this happens again as at least they could talk if
the repeater went down. I bet right now in most areas we live if the main
base went out all communications would go to crap..
Sometimes keep it simple really works.

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:33:31 -0500, "SteveJ" said in
rec.radio.scanner:

Here we are in this fine HiTECK society, and with all this great New
Trucking radio systems are not worth a **** in a real emergency like in the
Big Easy, and the police can not talk anywhere. Car to Car does not work
either.
Hell CB would work better or something. All police should have a backup
simplex Radio

That's implementation-dependent. The systems can be set up with TACs,
so they can talk without repeaters.

You can give a man water, but if he's too stupid to drink, he'll still
die of thirst.

"Al Klein" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:33:31 -0500, "SteveJ" said in
rec.radio.scanner:

Here we are in this fine HiTECK society, and with all this great New
Trucking radio systems are not worth a **** in a real emergency like in
the
Big Easy, and the police can not talk anywhere. Car to Car does not work
either.
Hell CB would work better or something. All police should have a backup
simplex Radio

That's implementation-dependent. The systems can be set up with TACs,
so they can talk without repeaters.


Please forgive my rant.... but it is worth thinking about - even if you find
yourself disagreeing.

Question is - is were they set up as such? One would like to think so, but
........ And the next question is - if they were - then what could be the
reason for "not" using them? A likely reason is all battery power is
exhausted - and that could be the case if the only radios left were the ones
being carried by the officers at the time. All the rest "may" have been
destroyed. With no power, they couldn't recharge any if they had a charger
left to do so - at all. The only building(s) that I'm aware of which had
anything left to it with a generator - was "a" hospital or so and the arena.
They could probably have "tried" to recharge the radios there - IF they had
a charger - which again - was probably gone. There ARE reasons why no radios
were left behind or now usable. Lets face it, this hurricane put them back a
few hundred if not a thousand years.

Instead of blaming people, we ALL need to sit down and re-evaluate the
situation before the next one comes - just what "would" we do - for
ourselves, our family. In any event like this - you LEARN. Just like 911 -
the city of New York's Public Service radios were swamped beyond use. The
system failed. They know that now and are "hopefully" rectifying the
situation. Yes, it is easy as hell to point fingers, fact is - it does no
good - it only hampers efforts. Maybe there are some to be held accountable,
but now is not the time. This was one hell of a wake up call for the U.S. As
a reporter said on TV, recently we've been hearing preparedness for
Terrorists attacks. This could be likened to a small to medium scale nuclear
attack. Sad to say, but for a catastrophic disaster like this, it will
ALWAYS catch people off guard and unprepared. The system is just
overwhelmed. There are only so many hospital beds, medical equipment,
medicines, doctors, nurses, medics, etc. Also, people - individuals need to
start keeping some sort of supplies together to rely on to get by. The
American Red Cross offers a check list of those items. They suggest like a
week's worth. Were this done, much of this current situation could be
eased - at least for those stranded - still waiting to be rescued. Second,
many folks just plain do not listen to EMA guides. When told to evacuate,
many choose not to. You can't blame the EMA officials for that. Folks take
their lives in their own hands when they refuse to leave an area. IF they
couldn't, that is one thing, but if they had a choice and didn't, then they
held their lives in their own hands - to an extent. Another thing, MORE
people need to get involved in community service - such as Red Cross
workers, Salvation Army, Ham and yes, CB for Comms (recreate SEAT REACT - if
not active), whatever. In some areas - as Volunteer EMS or Fire. Many areas
are hurting for volunteers in these fields and lets face it, in a disaster,
they are going to be hard pressed to do any good. There was a program
started here and I believe it was a "national" program - designed to train
common folks in basic techniques to assist the Fire/EMS folks. I can't speak
for other areas, but here - no one applied for this "free" training. It was
not "fire fighting or saving lives" but just basic stuff that a fire
department or EMS would be called to - that folks could do in a disaster to
help alleviate the situation until help can arrive. This is sad... this is a
good reason the system is overwhelmed. If one person in every family learned
some basic techniques, or went so far as to be more thoroughly trained in
some sort of rescue or relief effort training, just think of the many more
people we'd have available to help.

Lawlessness is foolishness. Taking food, water/drinks, medicines, diapers -
though I don't condone stealing/looting, those are "survival" items. IF that
store was to be re-opened, the majority of that stuff left - would be thrown
away anyway and written off as a tax loss. But to steal TVs - Stereos which
operated off of AC (only) when there is none - makes no sense, most probably
is ruined anyway. They sure can't haul it on a bus with them. To take
"small" radios or battery operated items to listen to news - that too "is"
understandable. Again, I'm not condoning theft, just the "legitimate" use of
the items. To shoot at the very people coming to rescue you.... that can not
and should not be tolerated. We who are working to rescue others who
"desire" help - shouldn't have to be put into that situation. Those who do
such things have no place in our society. "I" would issue "martial law"
immediately to deal with it. That is my only suggestion - not blame. It is
understandable they are upset, but those actions do no one any good. I say
"we" who are working only because I've been in this sort of operation and
involved in EMA locally - but do not take any credit whatsoever for "this"
event. I'm in an area far removed from the current event.

Yes, there are a HUGE amount of problems here. With cooperation, help,
money, it will start to take shape. It won't be easy, and it sure won't be
as quickly as it happened. The whole country is going to wear this badge.
ALL of those people have to be fed, clothed, etc. They no longer have pay
checks or jobs to return to for a pay check. Someone has to keep them! The
tax payer is going to foot the bill.

We can all argue about the hows and whys until we die, it won't undo what
Mother Nature's fury has done. We can blame anyone and everyone and as some
have done - use a race card. WE ARE ALL INVOLVED - whether we like it or
not. WE are ALL going to pay for it somehow. Just pull up the boots, and get
to work. The sooner people quit spouting off and start doing - the sooner
things will start to improve. It is so easy to sit back and criticize and
not do anything to help. HELP make a difference. CONTRIBUTE. Everyone has
"something" they can contribute. You are entitled to your opinion - everyone
is, but in a case as this, use it to make "constructive" criticizm. Maybe
you have a solution no one else has thought of which could alleviate a
problem in the future. IF you can't do it nationally - do so - locally in
your area.

Being we're still in the midst of what was called a prolonged and more
dangerous Hurricane season - even before Katrina hit, we need to start
looking ahead for the next one - should it happen - OR - ANY disaster. Use
this as a learning example. Don't sit around and do nothing. BE PREPARED. IT
could be YOUR life or those of your loved ones that you're saving. Many have
the "it won't happen to us" attitude. People, we're not covered under an
umbrella of protection. Disaster can and will strike anywhere, anytime and
to anyone. NO ONE is safe.

Just think for a moment.... given what we're seeing now - what will we do
when the situations as supposed - "may" happen

1. The devastating earthquake in the West Coast - strikes.
2. Other hurricanes
3. Nuclear or Biological attack.
4. "Any" war on our homeland
5. "Any" other threat not mentioned - perhaps an Asteroid! (Assuming anyone
is left to deal with it!)

This my friends IS a wake up call and could only be the beginning - being
the season for hurricanes isn't over. Any future calamities could be far
worse - not trying to trivialize or minimize this event. IF they are - then
what? We need to pay attention and get to work to be even more prepared -
individually and as a country.

I apologize for my preaching, but being involved in both EMA and
Communications - though I don't have all the answers, I put some ideas out
to the masses for food for thought - to hopefully help in any future event.

May God be with those victims, their families and the rescue workers who are
there.

jm (used only to thwart an onslaught of spam)

On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 03:14:22 -0400, "jm" said
in rec.radio.scanner:

"Al Klein" wrote in message
.. .

That's implementation-dependent. The systems can be set up with TACs,
so they can talk without repeaters.

Please forgive my rant.... but it is worth thinking about - even if you find
yourself disagreeing.

Question is - is were they set up as such?

I have no idea, but that's irrelevant. If the mechanism exists, and
the department chooses to not take advantage of it, it's not a problem
with the technology, it's a problem with the department. Give them
*any* technology and they'd probably refuse to implement it.

....... And the next question is - if they were - then what could be the
reason for "not" using them? A likely reason is all battery power is
exhausted - and that could be the case if the only radios left were the ones
being carried by the officers at the time. All the rest "may" have been
destroyed. With no power, they couldn't recharge any if they had a charger
left to do so - at all.

Generators. Solar chargers. Again, the technology is there. If the
department chose to not take advantage of it ...

Tell me again, after enough time has passed that they would have run
out of any realistic amount of fuel for the generators, and it's
impossible to truck in more. (It isn't - NG trucks have been bringing
in fuel since the NG got there.)

The only building(s) that I'm aware of which had
anything left to it with a generator - was "a" hospital or so and the arena.
They could probably have "tried" to recharge the radios there - IF they had
a charger - which again - was probably gone. There ARE reasons why no radios
were left behind or now usable. Lets face it, this hurricane put them back a
few hundred if not a thousand years.

But, with proper advance planning, they would have had everything they
need (as far as communications goes). All they had to do was to move
their fully equipped, snorkel-engined commo van - with a generator,
full fuel tanks, chargers for every type of radio they use, spare
radios, spare batteries, etc. - to a high, protected spot before the
hurricane struck. Then drive it back into town after the hurricane
passed.

Instead of blaming people, we ALL need to sit down and re-evaluate the
situation before the next one comes - just what "would" we do - for
ourselves, our family. In any event like this - you LEARN. Just like 911 -
the city of New York's Public Service radios were swamped beyond use.

Nothing like that at all. There were problems, but the system wasn't
"swamped". Talk to the people actually involved in NYC commo - FDNY
commo supervisors and run board supervisors. (And supervisors of the
commo bureaus of other departments. Ham radio was operating as well
as people in total shock can be expected to operate all day, so why
wasn't a professional service like FDNY? I'm not knocking FDNY -
there were problems, but being "swamped" wasn't one of them.)

The technology is there. People have to learn that as soon as someone
says "there has to be ..." all conversation has to stop, and everyone
has to find out why that statement was totally wrong. (My answer to
that is always "why?", and no one can give me any answer that isn't
religious or totally monomaniacal.)

Then, and only then (once everyone realizes that man has almost no
control over his environment) can anything constructive be done.

But the technology is there. The only impediment to being better
prepared is inertia - the inertia of the human jackasses who are
usually in charge of those things.

Do you have all your important data files backed up right now? (I
just put up a new 300 gig drive, about 20 minutes ago, and the program
I put up on my web site 10 minutes ago is backed up to it. If I save,
I save to the backup drive too. It's a pain, but I've had drives fail
so I take precautions.)

Lawlessness is foolishness. Taking food, water/drinks, medicines, diapers -
though I don't condone stealing/looting, those are "survival" items.

I agree completely. It's larceny, but I wouldn't find the
perpetrators guilty if I were on the jury. I think it comes under the
same umbrella as self defense - a crime, but justifiable.

But to steal TVs - Stereos which
operated off of AC (only) when there is none - makes no sense, most probably
is ruined anyway.

Ruined or not, it's theft. *Those* I *would* convict.

To shoot at the very people coming to rescue you.... that can not
and should not be tolerated. We who are working to rescue others who
"desire" help - shouldn't have to be put into that situation. Those who do
such things have no place in our society. "I" would issue "martial law"
immediately to deal with it. That is my only suggestion - not blame. It is
understandable they are upset, but those actions do no one any good.

They claim that the situation gave them the opportunity to "get back"
at those who "enslaved" them "all these years". That's nice, but
looting is still a crime. And killing a cop should be a capital
crime, even if it *is* a corrupt cop.

Yes, there are a HUGE amount of problems here. With cooperation, help,
money, it will start to take shape. It won't be easy, and it sure won't be
as quickly as it happened. The whole country is going to wear this badge.
ALL of those people have to be fed, clothed, etc. They no longer have pay
checks or jobs to return to for a pay check. Someone has to keep them! The
tax payer is going to foot the bill.

"The taxpayer" is they who "longer have pay checks or jobs to return
to for a pay check". NOLA won't be collecting taxes for a long time.
NOLA won't even be thinking of opening schools until some time next
year, according to them.

Being we're still in the midst of what was called a prolonged and more
dangerous Hurricane season

And it's not going to get better. Hurricanes are heat engines and
global warming (it's a fact - no scientist is arguing about *whether*
it is, just about why and how much) is causing worse hurricanes and,
since we're short-term-profit-driven, not logic-driven, global warming
is just going to get worse, so hurricanes are just going to get
stronger and more destructive.

"Al Klein" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 03:14:22 -0400, "jm" said
in rec.radio.scanner:

"Al Klein" wrote in message
. ..

That's implementation-dependent. The systems can be set up with TACs,
so they can talk without repeaters.

Please forgive my rant.... but it is worth thinking about - even if you
find
yourself disagreeing.

Question is - is were they set up as such?

I have no idea, but that's irrelevant. If the mechanism exists, and
the department chooses to not take advantage of it, it's not a problem
with the technology, it's a problem with the department. Give them
*any* technology and they'd probably refuse to implement it.

....... And the next question is - if they were - then what could be the
reason for "not" using them? A likely reason is all battery power is
exhausted - and that could be the case if the only radios left were the
ones
being carried by the officers at the time. All the rest "may" have been
destroyed. With no power, they couldn't recharge any if they had a charger
left to do so - at all.

Generators. Solar chargers. Again, the technology is there. If the
department chose to not take advantage of it ...

Tell me again, after enough time has passed that they would have run
out of any realistic amount of fuel for the generators, and it's
impossible to truck in more. (It isn't - NG trucks have been bringing
in fuel since the NG got there.)

The only building(s) that I'm aware of which had
anything left to it with a generator - was "a" hospital or so and the
arena.
They could probably have "tried" to recharge the radios there - IF they
had
a charger - which again - was probably gone. There ARE reasons why no
radios
were left behind or now usable. Lets face it, this hurricane put them back
a
few hundred if not a thousand years.

But, with proper advance planning, they would have had everything they
need (as far as communications goes). All they had to do was to move
their fully equipped, snorkel-engined commo van - with a generator,
full fuel tanks, chargers for every type of radio they use, spare
radios, spare batteries, etc. - to a high, protected spot before the
hurricane struck. Then drive it back into town after the hurricane
passed.

Instead of blaming people, we ALL need to sit down and re-evaluate the
situation before the next one comes - just what "would" we do - for
ourselves, our family. In any event like this - you LEARN. Just like 911 -
the city of New York's Public Service radios were swamped beyond use.

Nothing like that at all. There were problems, but the system wasn't
"swamped". Talk to the people actually involved in NYC commo - FDNY
commo supervisors and run board supervisors. (And supervisors of the
commo bureaus of other departments. Ham radio was operating as well
as people in total shock can be expected to operate all day, so why
wasn't a professional service like FDNY? I'm not knocking FDNY -
there were problems, but being "swamped" wasn't one of them.)


I won't argue the point that they "could" have been better prepared. Why
they weren't, is the question. As to FDNY - my info differs from yours, but
so be it. The point is, we all need to learn from the mistakes to be better
prepared for the next event. Otherwise, I think we basically agree! The
bigger the problem is, the worst it is going to get. Everyone needs to take
an active role in the positive to make sure things go much smoother for them
and everyone else. The "system" can't do it all - as much as some would like
to think.

jm

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 21:40:26 -0400, Al Klein
wrote:

And it's not going to get better. Hurricanes are heat engines and
global warming (it's a fact - no scientist is arguing about *whether*
it is, just about why and how much) is causing worse hurricanes and,
since we're short-term-profit-driven, not logic-driven, global warming
is just going to get worse, so hurricanes are just going to get
stronger and more destructive.

Sorry, I just couldn't let this one go.

I am a scientist. True, I am not arguing, but I do not agree with
"global warming". Interesting how when we were young, a new ice age
is approaching. Now it is global warming. Chicken little said the
sky is falling. This is a trick to take money from the U. S. taxpayer
and give it away to liberal concerns.

As far as hurricanes getting worse, this is another typical liberal
statement. This is no where near the worst hurricane in the recorded
weather history of the USA. True, it may have affected more human
life, but that is because they live there--NOT because the hurricane
was the worst. Once again, there is no evidence that any hurricanes
we have had in the last 10 years are worse that hurricanes in recorded
weather history of the USA.

"Logic-driven"? I think not. You rant, but you rant feelings (or
maybe agenda). Neither logic nor facts are in your message.
Spammers, please send email to:

and get your SMTP server blacklisted!

"DxxxxxBxx" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 21:40:26 -0400, Al Klein
wrote:

And it's not going to get better. Hurricanes are heat engines and
global warming (it's a fact - no scientist is arguing about *whether*
it is, just about why and how much) is causing worse hurricanes and,
since we're short-term-profit-driven, not logic-driven, global warming
is just going to get worse, so hurricanes are just going to get
stronger and more destructive.

Sorry, I just couldn't let this one go.

I am a scientist. True, I am not arguing, but I do not agree with
"global warming". Interesting how when we were young, a new ice age
is approaching. Now it is global warming. Chicken little said the
sky is falling. This is a trick to take money from the U. S. taxpayer
and give it away to liberal concerns.

As far as hurricanes getting worse, this is another typical liberal
statement. This is no where near the worst hurricane in the recorded
weather history of the USA. True, it may have affected more human
life, but that is because they live there--NOT because the hurricane
was the worst. Once again, there is no evidence that any hurricanes
we have had in the last 10 years are worse that hurricanes in recorded
weather history of the USA.

"Logic-driven"? I think not. You rant, but you rant feelings (or
maybe agenda). Neither logic nor facts are in your message.

You're confusing messages for starters... Secondly I don't think anyone said
this was the "worst" hurricane in history. Third - Liberal as to
predictions? NOT - that came from the folks at NOAA and the Weather Channel.
They are "supposed" to be scientists or Meteorologists if you will - not
slanted in any one direction. So, though you may be a scientist, you sure
must not pay much attention to what is broadcast via those in the know. As
to "WHY" they may get stronger and more destructive - "I" am not a scientist
or meteorologist, so I won't try to pretend I am and overstep my bounds in
information. "I" get my information from those aforementioned who are
"supposed" to know what is going on.
You may be a scientist - self proclaimed perhaps, but it doesn't mean you
know "everything".

jm

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 01:51:43 GMT, DxxxxxBxx
said in rec.radio.scanner:

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 21:40:26 -0400, Al Klein
wrote:

And it's not going to get better. Hurricanes are heat engines and
global warming (it's a fact - no scientist is arguing about *whether*
it is, just about why and how much) is causing worse hurricanes and,
since we're short-term-profit-driven, not logic-driven, global warming
is just going to get worse, so hurricanes are just going to get
stronger and more destructive.

Sorry, I just couldn't let this one go.

I am a scientist.

In a relevant field?

True, I am not arguing, but I do not agree with
"global warming". Interesting how when we were young, a new ice age
is approaching.

Study paleometeorology.

Now it is global warming.

And if I told you that I have a broken leg and my car is out of gas,
you'd see something mutually exclusive there too?

There's another glaciation cycle coming. (The continents haven't
shifted enough yet to stop it.) We're experiencing global warming.
The two aren't really connected.

Chicken little said the
sky is falling. This is a trick to take money from the U. S. taxpayer
and give it away to liberal concerns.

And that's the scientific viewpoint? What science? Political
science?

As far as hurricanes getting worse, this is another typical liberal
statement. This is no where near the worst hurricane in the recorded
weather history of the USA.

I never said it was. I said that, due to the fact that hurricanes are
heat-driven, and due to the fact that we're experiencing warming,
hurricanes are going to get worse.

Scientists are supposed to know something about significance and
accuracy.

"Logic-driven"? I think not. You rant, but you rant feelings (or
maybe agenda).

Speaking of agenda ... I'm not the one who defined someone he never
spoke to before as a liberal.