There are 2 noise reducing units on the market I am considering for
purchase either one, MFJ-1025 1.5 - 30 MHz Noise Canceling Antenna and the
Timewave ANC-4.

A number of yrs ago I made my one and only purchase of "Mighty Fine Junk"
and have'nt been back since.

So I need some input here. Which unit is better and why.

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Sun Tzu wrote:
So I need some input here. Which unit is better and why.

Don't forget the ClearSpeech system. I have two of
them and they really work.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 17:44:21 +0000, Cecil Moore wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote:
So I need some input here. Which unit is better and why.

Don't forget the ClearSpeech system. I have two of them and they really
work.

tell mew about this system and where do I find more info on it


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Sun Tzu wrote:
On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 17:44:21 +0000, Cecil Moore wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote:
So I need some input here. Which unit is better and why.
Don't forget the ClearSpeech system. I have two of them and they really
work.

tell mew about this system and where do I find more info on it

A Google search turned up almost 10K pages for "ClearSpeech"
including this one:
http://www.universal-radio.com/CATAL...kers/2980.html
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 18:16:26 +0000, Cecil Moore wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote:
On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 17:44:21 +0000, Cecil Moore wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote:
So I need some input here. Which unit is better and why.
Don't forget the ClearSpeech system. I have two of them and they really
work.

tell mew about this system and where do I find more info on it

A Google search turned up almost 10K pages for "ClearSpeech" including
this one:
http://www.universal-radio.com/CATAL...kers/2980.html

thanks for the info but Heil Sound does'nt even show this unit on their
website.

I would think if it really works would'nt HS still have it on the website?


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Sun Tzu wrote:
thanks for the info but Heil Sound does'nt even show this unit on their
website.
I would think if it really works would'nt HS still have it on the website?

I bought my two before Heil took them over. I suspect Heil
priced the devices too high to be economically viable.
I would recommend as an alternate - buying a used device.
They really do work well.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Clearspeech units do NOT keep noise OUT of the first RF stage. They operate as
audio DSP. It is a totally different approach from either the ANC-4 and the MFJ
1025.

I own both the ANC-4 and the MFJ-1025.

These units use a separate noise sensing antenna mounted close to ground. Mine
are about 20 feet long and about 3 inches above the ground.

Both units use analog operational amplifiers to cancel manmade noise BEFORE the
noise enters the receiver [before the first rf amplifier stage].

Operation is easier to describe in terms of two op-amps. Op-amp#1 adjusts the
gain of the input#1 noise to match the noise level and inverts the noise signal.
[-mmnoise#1 @ input#1]

Op-amp#2 has one input from the station antenna that contains signal plus
manmade noise [signal + mmnoise] and the second input from the noise amplifier
[-mmnoise#1] that has inverted noise only. This amplifier algebraically adds the
two signals [eg: signal + mmnoise - mmnoise]. The output of this amplifier has
just signal. The manmade noise has been canceled!!

In my station the ANC-4 is used primarily because it is simpler to use. There
are only two adjustments, noise gain and noise phase.

The MFJ-1025 has three adjustments, noise gain, noise phase and T/R delay [for
QSK type usage]. I don't use QSK so I can't comment on this feature.

Each unit has several push buttons for basic frequency range.

Both units will easily reduce manmade noise, power line noise, switching power
supply noise, noisy power insulators, Computer monitor noise, tv set noise, etc
by 60 to 70 dB. A S9 noise level can be reduced to less than S1 approaching S0.
Both units have a slight reduction in net RF gain of about 1/2 S unit. Either
unit will allow you to copy a S1 signal in the presence of S8 or S9 external
manmade noise [NOT adjacent channel QRM!!][They are VERY broadband noise
amplifiers].

The ANC is physically smaller and has two adjustment and two push switches. The
MFJ has three adjustments. I have not opened the case of either unit so I can't
comment on construction quality.

I bought my MFJ new from HRO. I bought my ANC off eBay. Why two noise
cancellers? I have two HF rigs operating simultaneously in my shack.

The ANC is my favorite because of ease of operation. It is on my IC-756 Pro III
[basic HF rig]. The MFJ-1025 is on my 60 meter dedicated radio.

/s/ DD, W1MCE

Sun Tzu wrote:
There are 2 noise reducing units on the market I am considering for
purchase either one, MFJ-1025 1.5 - 30 MHz Noise Canceling Antenna and the
Timewave ANC-4.

A number of yrs ago I made my one and only purchase of "Mighty Fine Junk"
and have'nt been back since.

So I need some input here. Which unit is better and why.

On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 17:15:09 -0400, Dave wrote:

Clearspeech units do NOT keep noise OUT of the first RF stage. They
operate as audio DSP. It is a totally different approach from either the
ANC-4 and the MFJ 1025.

I own both the ANC-4 and the MFJ-1025.

These units use a separate noise sensing antenna mounted close to ground.
Mine are about 20 feet long and about 3 inches above the ground.

Both units use analog operational amplifiers to cancel manmade noise
BEFORE the noise enters the receiver [before the first rf amplifier
stage].

Operation is easier to describe in terms of two op-amps. Op-amp#1 adjusts
the gain of the input#1 noise to match the noise level and inverts the
noise signal. [-mmnoise#1 @ input#1]

Op-amp#2 has one input from the station antenna that contains signal plus
manmade noise [signal + mmnoise] and the second input from the noise
amplifier [-mmnoise#1] that has inverted noise only. This amplifier
algebraically adds the two signals [eg: signal + mmnoise - mmnoise]. The
output of this amplifier has just signal. The manmade noise has been
canceled!!

In my station the ANC-4 is used primarily because it is simpler to use.
There are only two adjustments, noise gain and noise phase.

The MFJ-1025 has three adjustments, noise gain, noise phase and T/R delay
[for QSK type usage]. I don't use QSK so I can't comment on this feature.

Each unit has several push buttons for basic frequency range.

Both units will easily reduce manmade noise, power line noise, switching
power supply noise, noisy power insulators, Computer monitor noise, tv set
noise, etc by 60 to 70 dB. A S9 noise level can be reduced to less than S1
approaching S0. Both units have a slight reduction in net RF gain of about
1/2 S unit. Either unit will allow you to copy a S1 signal in the presence
of S8 or S9 external manmade noise [NOT adjacent channel QRM!!][They are
VERY broadband noise amplifiers].

The ANC is physically smaller and has two adjustment and two push
switches. The MFJ has three adjustments. I have not opened the case of
either unit so I can't comment on construction quality.

I bought my MFJ new from HRO. I bought my ANC off eBay. Why two noise
cancellers? I have two HF rigs operating simultaneously in my shack.

The ANC is my favorite because of ease of operation. It is on my IC-756
Pro III [basic HF rig]. The MFJ-1025 is on my 60 meter dedicated radio.

/s/ DD, W1MCE

Sun Tzu wrote:
There are 2 noise reducing units on the market I am considering for
purchase either one, MFJ-1025 1.5 - 30 MHz Noise Canceling Antenna and
the Timewave ANC-4.

A number of yrs ago I made my one and only purchase of "Mighty Fine
Junk" and have'nt been back since.

So I need some input here. Which unit is better and why.




you use an antenna thats 20 ft long would that be a dipole?
3 inches off the ground?? no kidding, any idea why so low?
what kind of wire do you use to connect the noise unit to the antenna?

would you say the units eliminate the noise equally as well?
or does one seem to be better than the other?


--
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Sun Tzu wrote:

REDACTED


you use an antenna thats 20 ft long would that be a dipole?
3 inches off the ground?? no kidding, any idea why so low?
what kind of wire do you use to connect the noise unit to the antenna?

would you say the units eliminate the noise equally as well?
or does one seem to be better than the other?



The 20 feet long antenna is exclusively a NOISE SENSING antenna. It is used for
the NOISE channel on the ANC-4/MFJ-1025. It is simply a wire plugged into the
back of the units.

Mounting it close to ground minimizes the HF/RF signals while picking up the
manmade noise [mmnoise from my previous post] signals.

The ANC-4 works very well with the short NOISE Sensing antenna. The MFJ-1025
works better IF the NOISE SENSING antenna is longer and higher [like a second HF
antenna]. The MFJ states that it can be used to eliminate adjacent channel
interference. I have never used it in this mode. [My ICOMS have an excellent ANF
feature and DSP]

The ANC is very easy to use [two independent adjustments]. The MFJ takes a
little learning to use [three interdependent adjustments]. Both do work!

If I had to choose one ... the ANC-4 ... ease of use and less noise antenna
requirements.

On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 09:35:42 -0400, Dave wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote:

REDACTED


you use an antenna thats 20 ft long would that be a dipole? 3 inches off
the ground?? no kidding, any idea why so low? what kind of wire do you
use to connect the noise unit to the antenna?

would you say the units eliminate the noise equally as well? or does one
seem to be better than the other?



The 20 feet long antenna is exclusively a NOISE SENSING antenna. It is
used for the NOISE channel on the ANC-4/MFJ-1025. It is simply a wire
plugged into the back of the units.

Mounting it close to ground minimizes the HF/RF signals while picking up
the manmade noise [mmnoise from my previous post] signals.

The ANC-4 works very well with the short NOISE Sensing antenna. The
MFJ-1025 works better IF the NOISE SENSING antenna is longer and higher
[like a second HF antenna]. The MFJ states that it can be used to
eliminate adjacent channel interference. I have never used it in this
mode. [My ICOMS have an excellent ANF feature and DSP]

The ANC is very easy to use [two independent adjustments]. The MFJ takes a
little learning to use [three interdependent adjustments]. Both do work!

If I had to choose one ... the ANC-4 ... ease of use and less noise
antenna requirements.

thanks for all the info Dave.
looks like the ANC-4 is the way to go. I have downloaded the manual for
both. the noise sensing antenna that you use is it in a dipole
configuration or like a long wire?
what kind of wire do you use to go between the ANC-4 and the noise antenna?


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