hi

was wondering if someone had some thoughts on this and might be able to
help me 'calculate' the value i need

I was thinking of getting a jado fuel cell, it puts out 100w (about
8amps ?) @12vdc

it's not totally regulated, at full output the volts dip a bit

wanted to power a 2m rig at low power 5w out it falls w/in the spec's
of the jado but i wanted a buffer

at first i thought of a battery using the full cell to charge the
battery during receive since tx is brief but how do i calculate
how big a battery i need?


i also wondering if perhaps a capacitor or a few of them might also
do the trick and if so how to size them

not sure the pro's /cons' of battery vs cap's


naturally if i used the caps' i'd prob get a dc to dc regulator

any help appreciated

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 00:22:01 GMT, ml wrote:

I was thinking of getting a jado fuel cell, it puts out 100w (about
8amps ?) @12vdc

Hi Myles,

Fuel Cell??? That is a pretty pricey option.

More than likely it is 100WH (Watt-hour, not Watt) rated.

wanted to power a 2m rig at low power 5w out it falls w/in the spec's
of the jado but i wanted a buffer

Well, a 5W transmitter is not going to load it too heavily, but you
have to figure that 5W out is a 10W demand on the battery. This means
your battery will work 8 - 10 Hours continuous (you don't sit on the
key, do you?).

at first i thought of a battery using the full cell to charge the
battery during receive since tx is brief but how do i calculate

A battery - fuel cell - battery?

how big a battery i need?

At least 100WH, undoubtedly more.

Why charge a fuel cell with a battery? Why not cut out the middle man
and just run battery operation?

i also wondering if perhaps a capacitor or a few of them might also
do the trick and if so how to size them

Not unless you can assemble a couple hundred Farads (note the complete
absence of pico, nano, or micro in that Farads). The short version is
DON'T GO THERE.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

ml wrote:

hi

was wondering if someone had some thoughts on this and might be able to
help me 'calculate' the value i need

I was thinking of getting a jado fuel cell, it puts out 100w (about
8amps ?) @12vdc

it's not totally regulated, at full output the volts dip a bit

wanted to power a 2m rig at low power 5w out it falls w/in the spec's
of the jado but i wanted a buffer

at first i thought of a battery using the full cell to charge the
battery during receive since tx is brief but how do i calculate
how big a battery i need?


i also wondering if perhaps a capacitor or a few of them might also
do the trick and if so how to size them

not sure the pro's /cons' of battery vs cap's


naturally if i used the caps' i'd prob get a dc to dc regulator

any help appreciated

I would use a small gel cell across the 12V output. I do have some
worries since it says "nominal" 12V output and no better information
than that seems to be available on the site.

Except the prices. You must be quite well off to consider purchasing
this, since the XRT is $7999 and does not include a refill station at
$599 or $1799, so once your canisters are empty you are done.

If you can afford this system, I would suggest you buy a nice top end
deep cycle battery, $300 for 80 AH is in the correct range.

Or you could just burn gasoline in a 2000W Honda which costs about
$1000, makes almost no noise, is quite light, and will generate less CO2
than the fuel cell system will when you get down to reality since the
fuel cell system is actually powered by the fairly inefficient
electrical grid. And it will cost a ton less as well as delivering 20
times the peak power with commonly available fuel.

tom
K0TAR

Tom Ring wrote:
If you can afford this system, I would suggest you buy a nice top end
deep cycle battery, $300 for 80 AH is in the correct range.

My 115 amp hour deep cycle trolling battery only
cost about $70 at Sam's Club.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Tom Ring wrote:

Or you could just burn gasoline in a 2000W Honda which costs about
$1000, makes almost no noise, is quite light, and will generate less CO2
than the fuel cell system will when you get down to reality since the
fuel cell system is actually powered by the fairly inefficient
electrical grid. And it will cost a ton less as well as delivering 20
times the peak power with commonly available fuel.

BTW, the 1000W EU1000i model will deliver 1000W at 3.8 gallons per day,
and 250W at 1.7 gallons per day. The unit is listed at 790 USD. There
are simple modifications to use a boat gas tank (usually about 6
gallons) with this unit which would make the run time 3 days for most
emergency amateur use before refill. I would take this as a first
responder system in a heartbeat.

I also wonder where one would get the energy to refill the hydrogen for
the fuel cell unit when in a place like New Orleans after Katrina.
Gasoline would still need to be hauled in, and would probably be more
efficiently used providing power directly from a smart generator than
splitting water to make hydrogen which would then be used in a fuel cell.

tom
K0TAR

ml wrote:

hi

was wondering if someone had some thoughts on this and might be able to
help me 'calculate' the value i need

I was thinking of getting a jado fuel cell, it puts out 100w (about
8amps ?) @12vdc

it's not totally regulated, at full output the volts dip a bit

wanted to power a 2m rig at low power 5w out it falls w/in the spec's
of the jado but i wanted a buffer

at first i thought of a battery using the full cell to charge the
battery during receive since tx is brief but how do i calculate
how big a battery i need?


i also wondering if perhaps a capacitor or a few of them might also
do the trick and if so how to size them

not sure the pro's /cons' of battery vs cap's


naturally if i used the caps' i'd prob get a dc to dc regulator

any help appreciated

If all you really need is 5W out I would spend my money on about 5 amps
of solar cells at 12 volts nominal, a really good charge controller such
as this one - http://store.solar-electric.com/sbchco2512vm.html - and a
good 200 or 300 AH deep cycle, you would be well ahead of the fuel cell
solution. And it would keep you in energy for a lot of dim days.

tom
K0TAR

In article ,
Richard Clark wrote:

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 00:22:01 GMT, ml wrote:

I was thinking of getting a jado fuel cell, it puts out 100w (about
8amps ?) @12vdc

Hi Myles,

Fuel Cell??? That is a pretty pricey option.

More than likely it is 100WH (Watt-hour, not Watt) rated.

wanted to power a 2m rig at low power 5w out it falls w/in the spec's
of the jado but i wanted a buffer

Well, a 5W transmitter is not going to load it too heavily, but you
have to figure that 5W out is a 10W demand on the battery. This means
your battery will work 8 - 10 Hours continuous (you don't sit on the
key, do you?).

at first i thought of a battery using the full cell to charge the
battery during receive since tx is brief but how do i calculate

A battery - fuel cell - battery?

how big a battery i need?

At least 100WH, undoubtedly more.

Why charge a fuel cell with a battery? Why not cut out the middle man
and just run battery operation?

i also wondering if perhaps a capacitor or a few of them might also
do the trick and if so how to size them

Not unless you can assemble a couple hundred Farads (note the complete
absence of pico, nano, or micro in that Farads). The short version is
DON'T GO THERE.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

thanks to all that replyed\
Tom , you changed my equation, combustion generators and solar are not
options or the question, it was a rather obvious choice but thanks
not sure where everyone got their spec's from and pricing but your
numbers are off and most likely i'd get a sample unit free , tom i
also wouldn't be using it's charging canisters but sstraight into the
tank

the jado i mentioned list price is around 2k$$ and i can get it for
less list and it is 100w it lit my 75w light bulb pretty steady and
bright

Question:
i thought since my key down isn't steady that might be enough juice to
then charge top off'' the battery but i didn't know how to size it

i'd have x amps (or ah) from fuel cell x ammount of draw think my rig
pulls 5amps? tx, x ammount capacity from batt,, so after say a min of
key down the battery would be y drained, given a big enough battery
Y (drain)would need to be small enough such that the 12/8amps out of the
Jado fuel cell would be able /fast enough to top it back off

question is what is that value how do i calculate how big a battery i
need at the know constants?



Rich the reason i thought of cap's was both the short key down time and
the article in cq of this new powersupply that uses a few 5farads it
got me thinking if it could be modified to do dc to dc regulation
rather than 120v ....maybe i was pushing it, then i thought of
supercapacitors i dunno

ml wrote:


question is what is that value how do i calculate how big a battery i
need at the know constants?



Rich the reason i thought of cap's was both the short key down time and
the article in cq of this new powersupply that uses a few 5farads it
got me thinking if it could be modified to do dc to dc regulation
rather than 120v ....maybe i was pushing it, then i thought of
supercapacitors i dunno

I got the pricing from jadoo's site for the unit plus 6 container combo.
And you will still need something to refill.

On the battery, when we used to VHF contest with a light (600W)
generator and power supplies, we would put a 25AH battery across each 15
amp supply and we could draw 40 or 50 amps on CW/SSB peaks with no
issues. So you would probably be well served by one of the 7AH UPS
batteries from a place such as Batteries Plus. They cost about $25 and
are about 7"Lx2"Wx4"H.

tom
K0TAR

Richard Clark wrote:

Hi Myles,

Fuel Cell??? That is a pretty pricey option.

More than likely it is 100WH (Watt-hour, not Watt) rated.

https://jadoopower.com/fuel_cell.html

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 08:53:31 -0700, Jim Kelley
wrote:



Richard Clark wrote:

Hi Myles,

Fuel Cell??? That is a pretty pricey option.

More than likely it is 100WH (Watt-hour, not Watt) rated.

https://jadoopower.com/fuel_cell.html

Which reports:
Output: 12 VDC Nominal
Wattage: 100 W Continuous

WOW! Infinite Watt Hours. I think we can walk away from the mid-east
right now.