J. Mc Laughlin wrote:
Some contend that P-noise exists and some contend that it does not exist
associated with fixed antennas. F5VJC might be able to add a data point.

Don't know about his static problems but it seems
to me that it doesn't make much difference whether
the antenna is moving or the charged particle stream
is moving. It's all relative. :-)
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Dave wrote:
...

Dave:

Krist! Turn off the 60 hz receiver you silly duck! That right hand
rotation is, most likely, making you dizzy!

JS

Hello Deni:

I have had such problems with rain noise. A ground plane antenna mounted
to the side of the house had severe rain static noise.

After checking the antenna and coax it was found that a new roof was
installed and sheet metal pieces where installed on the roof before the
roof paper and roof was installed. After finding this out, the mast was
moved away and insulated from the side of the house.

This reduced the rain static in the receiver significantly. What I think
was happening was the heavy rain static energy was using the mast as a
ground rod, inducing the noise into the antenna.

I have at times experienced severe rain static, but only two times when
the the rain was a complete heavy down poor of rain, that only lasted a
few minuets. I think its possible that some, but not all weather brings
the rain static and most antenna installations will hear it.

Jay in the Mojave

Deni F5VJC wrote:

I have recently been plagued by rain static on a new vertical antenna,
this a 42 foot vertical fed at the base through an SG230 auto tuner,
and used on all bands. It seems I need a static bleed of some sort, a
choke or resistor. What is the best component to use in an outdoor
environment?
I thought the auto ATU would in itself provide a static bleed path,
but apparently not.

Any thoughts, how have you solved this?

73, Deni

F5VJC

Jay in the Mojave wrote:
I have at times experienced severe rain static, ...

Others have reported experiencing severe snow static.
My worst precipitation static problems occurred in
the Arizona desert on a dry sunny day with 40 mph
winds filled with charged dust particles streaming
across the desert. It actually caused a burst of
arcing at my coax connector.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Number of things are getting confused and lumped.
There are different types of "Rain Static" and "noise"

1. One that W5DXP experienced in dry winds of Arizona, is charging of metal
parts by air mass movement and generated charge by it. Either in immediate
vicinity of the antennas or higher up. Insulated wires, loops and balanced
antennas and feeders help here.

2. High altitude static buildup during the storms. Is due to buildup of
static in higher altitudes, accompanied by lightning discharges. Here the
umbrella effect of having higher structure with "capacitance hat" like Yagi
helps to drain the charge from the vicinity and static free reception from
lower antennas is possible. Stacked beams are example, where lower antenna
is dead quiet while top one gets S9+20 frying noise. Insulation or no
insulation immaterial here.

3. Discharge from the rain droplets on the antenna elements is like #2.
Insulated elements help here to a point.

Power line noise. If the source is a bad connection in power lines system
(point source) that noise is "everything polarized". Depends how the antenna
and structures around it participate in the radiation from it. Argument that
it is vertically polarized has more to do with RX antennas and their pattern
rather than "pure" polarization. Verticals have major lobe at the horizon
and they "see" everything near by. Horizontals at typical height have major
lobe at some higher angle, mostly "looking" up and have a null at the
horizon, "ignoring" nearby sources of noise. Then there is the propagation
mode effect contributing to the noise propagation and affect on receiving
systems.

Regardless of W8JI claims that small loop antennas don't have electrostatic
shield - effect, they can be of great help in discriminating against the
near by noise sources by using electrostatic shields. And yes Virginia, in
the close proximity there is a separation of E and H fields.

One has to be careful and properly identify the type of noise, ways of
propagating and means of suppressing it. The best way is to do it at the
antennas. For example I had horrible noise situation from HV power lines.
The most effective way was to null it out by mutual positioning of the main
antenna (Razors) and 3 el. Yagi between them. I could suppress, null out
noise of 30dB over S9 down to almost nothing. Then the noise blankers and
filtering are put to work.

73 Yuri, K3BU


"Owen Duffy" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 07:27:39 -0800, John Smith
wrote:

Dave wrote:
...

Most all verticals have higher noise levels than horizontal antennas.
Reason, as it is reported, is that man made noise is vertically
polarized.


Dave:

Frankly, I think that the statement, "most man made noise is vertical
polarized" is a myth. How many power lines do you see running

Perhaps the explanation for the observation that the vertically
polarised component of man made noise is greater at a receiver antenna
than the horizontal component lies in the propagation mechanism.

Most man made noise is received from nearby and by ground wave, and
vertically polarised ground waves are attenuated less than
horizontally polarised waves over the same path.

This explanation is supported by the observation that the closer one
is to a high intensity man made noise source (but still within
radiating far field), the less variation in field strength with
antenna polarisation.

Owen
--

"Jay in the Mojave" wrote in message
...
Hello Deni:

I have had such problems with rain noise. A ground plane antenna mounted
to the side of the house had severe rain static noise.

After checking the antenna and coax it was found that a new roof was
installed and sheet metal pieces where installed on the roof before the
roof paper and roof was installed. After finding this out, the mast was
moved away and insulated from the side of the house.

This reduced the rain static in the receiver significantly. What I think
was happening was the heavy rain static energy was using the mast as a
ground rod, inducing the noise into the antenna.

I have at times experienced severe rain static, but only two times when
the the rain was a complete heavy down poor of rain, that only lasted a
few minuets. I think its possible that some, but not all weather brings
the rain static and most antenna installations will hear it.

Jay in the Mojave

Deni F5VJC wrote:

I have recently been plagued by rain static on a new vertical antenna,
this a 42 foot vertical fed at the base through an SG230 auto tuner,
and used on all bands. It seems I need a static bleed of some sort, a
choke or resistor. What is the best component to use in an outdoor
environment?
I thought the auto ATU would in itself provide a static bleed path,
but apparently not.

Any thoughts, how have you solved this?

73, Deni

F5VJC


The only rain static I have observed is during a sudden downpour. This is on
a longwire antenna. If the rain last more than a few minutes the static goes
away. I have wondered sometimes if this isnt caused by the rain hitting a
dry antenna. No real reason to assume this is fact but it does seem to fit
the observation. Perhaps I will run out one day and hose the antenna down
and see if this stops the static. |.

This seems to be even more the case when I take my radio down to florida
from north carolina. In florida we have afternnon storms that you can almost
set your watch by. When they hit the haose I usally get a steady build up of
noise then suddenly it dies down. It seems to die down durung the heaviest
part of the rain.

Anyone who says you can't revive a dead horse with a good, firm beating
has not met this group

I suspect that there are several points of agreement with the majority
of the group, however not everyone will agree, heck I may choose to
disagree with something right after I write it......

That dry wind will cause high voltage charging -and arcing- of
insulated antennas and static noise, especially on long wires - that
this is mostly friction charging, a similar mechanism to rubbing silk
on glass, though charged body impact of dust may be relevant...
That dry, falling/blowing snow causes extreme levels of static noise on
insulated antennas - by mixed phenomenon of friction static and
charged body impact...
That static noise builds up as a rain front approaches, with or without
associated wind... That this static noise is separate from lighting
discharge impulses....
That lightning discharges cause noise - inductive noise...
That rain causes static noise on insulated antennas - charged body
impact primarily, I don't know about friction charge...
That heavy rain 'may' lessen associated static noise....
I haven't personally experienced this - is it the magnitude of the
rainfall or the fact that the highly charged front has passed on by and
the falling drops are now less charged?
That a grounded tower with an antenna stack can have the top antenna
experience heavy static noise while lower antennas will have
significantly less static roar...
my opinion is that coronal discharge from the top antenna elements is
inducing noise into the top antenna circuit, and that the coronal flow
that would have occurred off the lower antenna elements is suppressed
and drained to the top antenna by the differential voltage on the
higher antenna

So, in the end it may be that the charging of the antenna circuit by
either friction or charged body impact causes less noise than the
subsequent coronal flow back off the highly charged antenna body... We
know that the antenna is a "convertor", that is it converts a moving
electron departing the antenna into a photon - and vice versa - causing
an RF signal in the process...
Certainly, this topic of the role that coronal discharge v/s the
charging mechanism plays in antenna noise would make a good
dissertation subject for a PhD thesis... Doctoral candidates out there,
hint, hint!...

denny

Yuri Blanarovich wrote:
1. One that W5DXP experienced in dry winds of Arizona, is charging of metal
parts by air mass movement and generated charge by it.

Incidentally, there was a special on the Discovery
Channel about man colonizing the other planets.
They said one of the main dangers to life on Mars
was the charged iron oxide particles during a
Martian dust storm.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

yeah, that would be a bitch... Trudging through a 200mph sand storm at
-200F, dog tired from working12 hours in the mine, hungry, thirsty,
and get to the airlock going into the station, reach out for the handle
and have a 20,000 volt charge blow a hole through your glove and
fingers, and you die from explosive decompression....

denny

Cecil Moore wrote:
Yuri Blanarovich wrote:
1. One that W5DXP experienced in dry winds of Arizona, is charging of metal
parts by air mass movement and generated charge by it.

Incidentally, there was a special on the Discovery
Channel about man colonizing the other planets.
They said one of the main dangers to life on Mars
was the charged iron oxide particles during a
Martian dust storm.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Denny wrote:
Anyone who says you can't revive a dead horse with a good, firm beating
has not met this group
...

Denny:

I am one calif born and raised boy who has only been though other states
on visits only lasting weeks, or passing through. I find the subject
quite interesting and have never had to deal with this on a level which
has been aggravating or annoying.

Indeed, the worst experience I have ever had is crossing nylon carpets
on very dry days in well insulated footwear. However, I have heard
horror stories of purplish cornea discharges from antennas which are a
sight to behold.

Just as in school, each new generation learns, this is one calif boy who
is new generation in his 50's! (and I hate faq's!)

Regards,
JS