On 18 Apr, 19:27, Wes wrote:
On Apr 18, 2:17 pm, art wrote:

snip

Forget the scribed line - snip.

--

73 from Ian GM3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek

What is so aweful about a scribed line that leads you give an
instruction to' forget it' ?
I've never seen a 'spirit level' being used in a tool room for
accuracy nor could I specify from what you said as to why it should be
used from now on instead of conventional means.

That's funny. My dad was a machinist before me and I still have one
of these in the tool chest he left me. (In the original box no less)

http://catalog.starrett.com/catalog/...sp?GroupID=487

It got me wondering about the advisability of buying stuff from the
west coast where the tool room machines are tested every day for
settlement for an final accuracy of plus or minus ten.
By the time they finish that review the day will be over only to start
all over again the next day.Can you imagine using a spirit level to
check for accuracy after milling a surface?
Art

"JB MacDonald" wrote in message
. ..
I know how to find the center of a pipe, using a vee block, but my
question is how do you scribe a line from one end to the other , so the
first hole is in perfect alignment with the last hole .. take for
example a 20 foot pipe , or tubing . If we had a 20 foot layout table
fine , clamp pipe down and use a height gauge to scrib a line the length
of the pipe. if you do not have a line you could get a twist(miss
alignment) but what can a person due that does not have a 20 foot layout
table . Maybe I am being to critical

Take two pipes and tape them together. Run a fat marker down the groove
between them.

Use the second pipe to make another antenna and give it to me.

73
Your pal, Sal

Ian White GM3SEK wrote in
:

Forget the scribed line - what you really need is for all the holes
through the boom to be parallel. A spirit level clamped at 90deg to the
boom will achieve that.

I have tried that, and it works fine... so long as the drill stand is
fixed.

The other thing that I use that works well is a rod which I clamp to the
round stock (it is actually part of a device for hanging camping lamps
from a tent pole) and I visually line the rod up with the drill while
adjusting the angle and tightening the vice in a drill stand. The
advantage of this is that I can see the rod at the end of even 6 metres
of boom from the drill, whereas I cant see a level at great distance and
need to walk back and forwards making small adjustments.

Another variation is to drill the first hole exactly the size of some rod
(I use some 1/8" brass or stainless which I usually have on hand), fit a
short length of rod and tape it in place, then proceed as above. Then, if
necessary, drill the first hole out to the final size.

We don't usually drill the holes for an interference fit, but rather a
small clearance, so you should expect to need to align the elements after
assembly.

Owen

On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:20:21 -0400, JB MacDonald
wrote:

I know how to find the center of a pipe, using a vee block, but my
question is how do you scribe a line from one end to the other , so the
first hole is in perfect alignment with the last hole .. take for
example a 20 foot pipe , or tubing . If we had a 20 foot layout table
fine , clamp pipe down and use a height gauge to scrib a line the length
of the pipe. if you do not have a line you could get a twist(miss
alignment) but what can a person due that does not have a 20 foot layout
table . Maybe I am being to critical

I responded to this in email, but here it is for the group.

If you are using a vee block, you can place a level on the vee block
and hold it level on top of one end of the pipe. Then move to the
other end and do the same thing. Assuming you haven't moved the pipe,
you should get the holes aligned.

I just recognized you are drilling holes for elements. the above idea
or the chalkline should do you well.

Another idea would be, if you are using a drill press or a drill with
a level on it....

create your vee block to lay the pipe in to drill it. Drill the first
hole and at one end support, use a dowel or peg to hold the pipe hole
vertical. As you move the pipe along, the end support will keep the
pipe in the same position so the drill press matches all the holes.

Good luck. Let us know what method you use.

Buck
N4PGW



--
73 for now
Buck, N4PGW
www.lumpuckeroo.com

art wrote:
snip


Forget the scribed line - snip.

73 from Ian GM3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom
(RSGB)http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek


What is so aweful about a scribed line that leads you give an
instruction to' forget it' ?
I've never seen a 'spirit level' being used in a tool room for
accuracy nor could I specify from what you said as to why it should be
used from now on instead of conventional means.


You expect a reply to that? "Forget" it!


--

73 from Ian GM3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek

On 19 Apr, 05:37, Ian White GM3SEK wrote:
art wrote:
snip

Forget the scribed line - snip.

73 from Ian GM3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom
(RSGB)http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek

What is so aweful about a scribed line that leads you give an
instruction to' forget it' ?
I've never seen a 'spirit level' being used in a tool room for
accuracy nor could I specify from what you said as to why it should be
used from now on instead of conventional means.

You expect a reply to that? "Forget" it!

--

73 from Ian GM3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek

Ian I remember now from the old days. Engineers came in to the tool
room with a slide rule in their hands and the shop inspector had a
spirit level. I must have had a senior moment
Ofcourse they may even have had a plumb line int their pockets for the
bigger jobs.

On 18 Apr 2007 19:30:01 -0700, art wrote:

On 18 Apr, 17:09, Danny Richardson wrote:
On 18 Apr 2007 14:17:27 -0700, art wrote:

I've never seen a 'spirit level' being used in a tool room for
accuracy nor could I specify from what you said as to why it should be
used from now on instead of conventional means.

Well, I guess you haven't had much experience in the tool room.
Otherwise you would have been aware of how precession levels used to
set up machinery. They are used often. How do you think those long bed
lathes are adjusted so they are straight, level and parallel? Yes, my
poor misinformed person they use precession levels.

Danny, K6MHE

Danny,
don't be silly, you obviously have not spent a lot of time in a tool
room.

Only forty years plus. In that time I've moved and/or installed many
lathes, mills, planners, surface plates and etc... Each time using a
precession level. Just as I had been taught by a master millwright
back in my apprentice days.

A tool room machine is not in any way used as a reference level. What
is used as a reference level is the machine slide with reference to
the cutting plane. An installation of a machine is subject to settling
but it does not affect the accuracy of the product.

Yea sure a twisted lathe bed does accurate work....BS

I see your knowledge of shop practices is exceeded only by your
knowledge of antenna theory.

Danny, K6MHE

"art" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 18 Apr, 17:09, Danny Richardson wrote:
On 18 Apr 2007 14:17:27 -0700, art wrote:

I've never seen a 'spirit level' being used in a tool room for
accuracy nor could I specify from what you said as to why it should be
used from now on instead of conventional means.

Well, I guess you haven't had much experience in the tool room.
Otherwise you would have been aware of how precession levels used to
set up machinery. They are used often. How do you think those long bed
lathes are adjusted so they are straight, level and parallel? Yes, my
poor misinformed person they use precession levels.

Danny, K6MHE

Danny,
don't be silly, you obviously have not spent a lot of time in a tool
room.
A tool room machine is not in any way used as a reference level. What
is used as a reference level is the machine slide with reference to
the cutting plane. An installation of a machine is subject to settling
but it does not affect the accuracy of the product.
Use of a spirit level over the use of a straight piece of angle as a
reference plane is rather stupid and impracticable.


What a pompous jerk. You have finally stooped so low to try to make your
ownself sound intelligent as to insult others.

On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:26:02 -0700, "Sal M. Onella"
wrote:


"JB MacDonald" wrote in message
...
I know how to find the center of a pipe, using a vee block, but my
question is how do you scribe a line from one end to the other , so the
first hole is in perfect alignment with the last hole .. take for
example a 20 foot pipe , or tubing . If we had a 20 foot layout table
fine , clamp pipe down and use a height gauge to scrib a line the length
of the pipe. if you do not have a line you could get a twist(miss
alignment) but what can a person due that does not have a 20 foot layout
table . Maybe I am being to critical

Take two pipes and tape them together. Run a fat marker down the groove
between them.

Use the second pipe to make another antenna and give it to me.

73
Your pal, Sal

The best answer yet! No special tools involved...
The problem encountered using a level is that you first have to learn
to use a level.

I used to work on a high speed laser printer that was on the 33rd.
floor of a building. Some of the adjustments required the use of a
machinists level. Usually the bubble would wander around a bit. On a
windy day it was down right eerie...

John Ferrell W8CCW
"Life is easier if you learn to
plow around the stumps"

On 19 Apr, 10:58, "Jimmie D" wrote:
"art" wrote in message

oups.com...





On 18 Apr, 17:09, Danny Richardson wrote:
On 18 Apr 2007 14:17:27 -0700, art wrote:

I've never seen a 'spirit level' being used in a tool room for
accuracy nor could I specify from what you said as to why it should be
used from now on instead of conventional means.

Well, I guess you haven't had much experience in the tool room.
Otherwise you would have been aware of how precession levels used to
set up machinery. They are used often. How do you think those long bed
lathes are adjusted so they are straight, level and parallel? Yes, my
poor misinformed person they use precession levels.

Danny, K6MHE

Danny,
don't be silly, you obviously have not spent a lot of time in a tool
room.
A tool room machine is not in any way used as a reference level. What
is used as a reference level is the machine slide with reference to
the cutting plane. An installation of a machine is subject to settling
but it does not affect the accuracy of the product.
Use of a spirit level over the use of a straight piece of angle as a
reference plane is rather stupid and impracticable.

What a pompous jerk. You have finally stooped so low to try to make your
ownself sound intelligent as to insult others.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No, he insulted every body elses intelligence.Actually your idea
regarding the piece of angle
as a reference guide for the scribe seemed to be the most practicable.
As yet I have not found the tolerance range for a spirit level whether
it be angular or otherwise. As for insults to ones intelligence I get
them all the time from idiots who do not have the knoweledge to even
understand the subject let alone give proof of errors stated that they
are trying to challenge.
Look around you Jimmy, here we are in the company of antenna experts,
lots of them. Simple questions are posed by newbies and each expert
writes something different such that an answer is never arrived at.
There is not one expert here that can give a single response that can
satisfy all posters which really gives meaning to don't just ask one
expert, ask a dozen experts and then punt. I often get comments that
my statements are not clear
but check out some of the threads that have over 100 or 200 responses,
obviously I am not the only one that is not clear in my writings. Just
imagine all the insults floating around on things imaginary or things
that are virtual or even simple things such a SWR and then some body
suggests to a newbie that he throw all his measuring instruments,
scribers, micrometers but keep only ,yes only, the spirit level when
dealing with the building of antennas ! Maybe it is time to give up my
subscription to RADCOM if this is what I have been paying for. Jimmie
you are one of many that hang apon my tail with the pretense of being
an expert and sooner or later you will look back on this thread
wondering how I could have been so dumb to follow the other naysayers
when I see so much use of Gaussian antennas being made. Some asked for
mathematical proof and when they got it from an indepedent source they
are so much in denial that they keep on digging a hole for themselves
but cannot come up with anything that faults the mathematics and thus
resort to silly talk or flowery language that just shows up as a bunch
of weeds. Jimmie give me something of substance we can talk about to
separate us from multi posters who seem to be doing their utmost in
talking about other things other than antennas and opting for
theoretical talk that emboldens those to post likewise in coat tail
fashion.
Art..........See you at Dayton, I'll be on the look out