If I used electric fence wire for my RF ground radials, how long do you all
think it would last?

I know the type of soil matters so lets go almost worst case, lets not go
so far as to say it has a high salt content.
I am just looking for something fast and cheap that I can do when I move to
my new QTH and will add proper copper wire, one by one as I can afford or
find deals on something better.
Do you think it may last a year or so?

Thanks Joe
KI4ILB

merlin-7 wrote:
If I used electric fence wire for my RF ground radials, how long do you all
think it would last?
...

I remember hearing it took 11 years for an aluminum beer can to degrade
in the soil, I believe it was in some environmental material.

But, hardly a final source ...

JS

On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 22:35:53 -0400, merlin-7 wrote:

If I used electric fence wire for my RF ground radials, how long do you
all think it would last?

Do you think it may last a year or so?

When I was growing up on the farm, we had galvanized electric fencing
wire that had been lost in the weeds, and stomped into the ground (black
Iowa dirt) for YEARS and showed no sign of rust.

With todays copper prices, those half mile spools of 14AWG fence wire
from the FarmFleet are looking cheaper every day.

The biggest problem I can see would be getting proper electrical contact
to the radials themselves. Since steel will not take solder, and you get
all kinds of nasty galvanic reactions with dissimilar metals, I would try
brassing up the ends with a brazing torch, and then solder to the brass.

--Teh

I know the type of soil matters so lets go almost worst case, lets not go
so far as to say it has a high salt content.
Do you think it may last a year or so?

Thanks Joe
KI4ILB

Depends on the soil... If it is acidic the aluminum will last a long
time, mebbee forever... If it is alkaline and damp, like the Borax
mines in Utah, it will corrode away in months... So, depends upon if
you are East or West of the Missippi...
This effect is lessened if the metal is laying on top of the dirt, or
even on top of the thatch... Long story short I have some in "the
weeds / on the ground" aluminium radials in my 160 arrays and they
look just fine after eight years in Michigan...

My gut feeling is you will be fine for a year...

denny / k8do

"Tehrasha Darkon" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 22:35:53 -0400, merlin-7 wrote:

If I used electric fence wire for my RF ground radials, how long do you
all think it would last?

Do you think it may last a year or so?

When I was growing up on the farm, we had galvanized electric fencing
wire that had been lost in the weeds, and stomped into the ground (black
Iowa dirt) for YEARS and showed no sign of rust.

With todays copper prices, those half mile spools of 14AWG fence wire
from the FarmFleet are looking cheaper every day.

The biggest problem I can see would be getting proper electrical contact
to the radials themselves. Since steel will not take solder, and you get
all kinds of nasty galvanic reactions with dissimilar metals, I would try
brassing up the ends with a brazing torch, and then solder to the brass.

--Teh

Never had a problem soldering to steel, I ve soldered to steel chassis,
steel wire, no problem.

Jimmie

In message , Jimmie D
writes

"Tehrasha Darkon" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 22:35:53 -0400, merlin-7 wrote:

If I used electric fence wire for my RF ground radials, how long do you
all think it would last?

Do you think it may last a year or so?

When I was growing up on the farm, we had galvanized electric fencing
wire that had been lost in the weeds, and stomped into the ground (black
Iowa dirt) for YEARS and showed no sign of rust.

With todays copper prices, those half mile spools of 14AWG fence wire
from the FarmFleet are looking cheaper every day.

The biggest problem I can see would be getting proper electrical contact
to the radials themselves. Since steel will not take solder, and you get
all kinds of nasty galvanic reactions with dissimilar metals, I would try
brassing up the ends with a brazing torch, and then solder to the brass.

--Teh

Never had a problem soldering to steel, I ve soldered to steel chassis,
steel wire, no problem.

Jimmie


I might be wrong, but I think that you should also be able to solder to
the zinc plating of galvanized wire (after gently cleaning it).
Ian.
--

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , Jimmie D
writes

"Tehrasha Darkon" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 22:35:53 -0400, merlin-7 wrote:

If I used electric fence wire for my RF ground radials, how long do you
all think it would last?

Do you think it may last a year or so?

When I was growing up on the farm, we had galvanized electric fencing
wire that had been lost in the weeds, and stomped into the ground (black
Iowa dirt) for YEARS and showed no sign of rust.

With todays copper prices, those half mile spools of 14AWG fence wire
from the FarmFleet are looking cheaper every day.

The biggest problem I can see would be getting proper electrical contact
to the radials themselves. Since steel will not take solder, and you
get
all kinds of nasty galvanic reactions with dissimilar metals, I would
try
brassing up the ends with a brazing torch, and then solder to the brass.

--Teh

Never had a problem soldering to steel, I ve soldered to steel chassis,
steel wire, no problem.

Jimmie


I might be wrong, but I think that you should also be able to solder to
the zinc plating of galvanized wire (after gently cleaning it).
Ian.
--

I think your right.

Ive soldered electric fence wire with no problem, Isnt that galvanised?.

I clean it, coat the wire with flux, make a western union splice then
solder.

Jimmie

On Jun 6, 7:35 pm, "merlin-7" wrote:
If I used electric fence wire for my RF ground radials, how long do you all
think it would last?

I know the type of soil matters so lets go almost worst case, lets not go
so far as to say it has a high salt content.
I am just looking for something fast and cheap that I can do when I move to
my new QTH and will add proper copper wire, one by one as I can afford or
find deals on something better.
Do you think it may last a year or so?

Thanks Joe
KI4ILB

Hi, Joe.
There are several kinds of electric fence wire. I just bought a spool,
1300' or so, of aluminum wire. There is electro-galvanized steel,
also. The electro gives a smooth coating, but doesn't last.

What might be better is the stainless steel wire used to wrap
telephone cable and cable TV cable to a messenger wire suspended from
poles. If you examine such a line carefully, you will see the spiral
wrap of wire holding is all together. The installers use a sliding
wrapping tool with a spool of the wire spinning around the cables as
they pull it along from the ground.

Several years ago my neighbor gave me a spool of it he found along the
road after the installation crew went through with new cable. The
spool was a rats nest of wire. So, they must have discarded it rather
than take the time to rewind it. Anyway, it is about the same diameter
as fence wire.

I suspect if you see either the telephone or cable TV installation
crew, you might ask if they had any unusable wrap wire. Might get it
for free!

Good luck with the project.
Paul, KD7HB

On Thu, 7 Jun 2007 08:47:13 +0000 (UTC), Tehrasha Darkon
wrote:

The biggest problem I can see would be getting proper electrical contact
to the radials themselves.

Clamping (wire nuts, twisting, compression joins, ...) works fine.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Thanks all
It looks like I can get my shack up and running long before my home will be
ready (thanks to solar power) I own an acre of land next door to my parents,
that's where we will be staying while the new home is in the works. It bytes
but I need the money from selling this home to get moving on the new one.

Anyway, I have 90% of the hardware needed to get my shack up and running. I
just need 3 more sections of tower (the shed itself, but I will build that)
I screw everything together except the shingles (no nails)
Glue it and screw it!
I also need a temporary, rf ground system (something that I can install
fast and cheap. I will also have some kind of metal fence up, welded wire /
chainlink, that I will tie into it....
The land is in NC near Jacksonville, I have no idea what the PH is but from
the pine trees on the lot (they are being removed to let the hardwoods grow)
I would say a slightly acidic soil.
There is nothing on the lot at this time so I get to start from scratch.

Family members also own 1 acre of land on each side of me (north to south
with me in the middle) and also 5 acres behind me (north of me, right behind
my lot and 5 acres wide north to south) so I have plenty of room for wire
antennas etc. I just need to preplan everything possible. Once everything is
in place that is where it will stay.

How would you lay out a ground system for both RF and lightning on a
budget? Something that could start out with say, electric fence wire and be
replaced with copper over time?

If I need to bond two dissimilar metal wires, I do it down and dirty. Lets
say I want to bond a copper ground wire to a galvanized tower leg.
I tighten one Stainless steel hose clamp on the tower leg, place the wire
over it and tighten up another SS hose clamp over it, so the connection has
SS between the different metals. You can also do the same thing with SS nuts
and bolts, just make sure the different metals have SS between them. Seems
to work well for me.

Sorry for the long post...I will lose internet when I move for a while so I
have a lot of questions....
" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jun 6, 7:35 pm, "merlin-7" wrote:
If I used electric fence wire for my RF ground radials, how long do you
all
think it would last?

I know the type of soil matters so lets go almost worst case, lets not
go
so far as to say it has a high salt content.
I am just looking for something fast and cheap that I can do when I
move to
my new QTH and will add proper copper wire, one by one as I can afford
or
find deals on something better.
Do you think it may last a year or so?

Thanks Joe
KI4ILB

Hi, Joe.
There are several kinds of electric fence wire. I just bought a spool,
1300' or so, of aluminum wire. There is electro-galvanized steel,
also. The electro gives a smooth coating, but doesn't last.

What might be better is the stainless steel wire used to wrap
telephone cable and cable TV cable to a messenger wire suspended from
poles. If you examine such a line carefully, you will see the spiral
wrap of wire holding is all together. The installers use a sliding
wrapping tool with a spool of the wire spinning around the cables as
they pull it along from the ground.

Several years ago my neighbor gave me a spool of it he found along the
road after the installation crew went through with new cable. The
spool was a rats nest of wire. So, they must have discarded it rather
than take the time to rewind it. Anyway, it is about the same diameter
as fence wire.

I suspect if you see either the telephone or cable TV installation
crew, you might ask if they had any unusable wrap wire. Might get it
for free!

Good luck with the project.
Paul, KD7HB