Hey, here's a question for you antenna heads..... I've googled and not found
much but a million opinions
and ideas on which is better so I thought I'd come here and lay out the
situation and get some advice.

I want to put an HF radio back in the house.

I only have a small yard and pesky neighbors.

I want to operate ham and MARS freqs.

I need to be somewhat incognito. A tower is out, and a big vertical is
questionable.
I don't like the radial issue as I live on solid rock, nor the price issues.

My only option is to go out back... zero yard but a hillside that is almost
limitless,
however; I live on top of a ridge so the hills all go downward. I'm assuming
a long wire in the treetops or similar is my only hope.
[very few trees are higher than my house up here, LOL]

SO... if you only had one direction to throw an antenna out, but could arrow
a 300 footer through the treetops if need be,
what would you do? Which style antenna would be best? Random or folded or ?
I'm assuming end-fed is my only option here, with only one direction to go.
[Southerly]

I'm considering a manual tuner in the shack, or auto-tuner like a marine
unit that I could remote in the attic and coax up to it then wire to
outside.

Is there a better way?? Ideas? Input?
thanks for the help!
Woody

On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 02:14:51 GMT, "Woody" wrote:

SO... if you only had one direction to throw an antenna out, but could arrow
a 300 footer through the treetops if need be,
what would you do?

Hi Woody,

Go for it!

It's not like an act of desperation or anything like that. I had a
similar situation (although more options) with an ad-hoc hillside
longwire (same size, height, etc.). It worked like gang-busters.

Which style antenna would be best? Random or folded or ?

Just as you described it. Anything more convoluted is unlikely to
give you more performance.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Thread a longwire through the trees... Have a quarter wave radial on
the ground for each band you intend to operate - this is the RF
counterpoise for the antenna tuner so it doesn't bite your fingers...
Operate and enjoy.. On a ridge as you describe, it should work just
fine...


denny

OK.... so work with the ignorant here.. I've never used anything other than
my trusty dipole/folded dipoles...
How do I put in radials under a longwire?? I'm kind of on a cliff so not
sure where I could do any digging back there...

A good website for the longwire user would be fantastic and I could just
research it.
thanks!
Woody


"Denny" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thread a longwire through the trees... Have a quarter wave radial on
the ground for each band you intend to operate - this is the RF
counterpoise for the antenna tuner so it doesn't bite your fingers...
Operate and enjoy.. On a ridge as you describe, it should work just
fine...


denny

Ok, maybe that's what I'll do then... So should I use a balun of any kind or
just make a coax connection of my own?
Woody

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 02:14:51 GMT, "Woody" wrote:

SO... if you only had one direction to throw an antenna out, but could
arrow
a 300 footer through the treetops if need be,
what would you do?

Hi Woody,

Go for it!

It's not like an act of desperation or anything like that. I had a
similar situation (although more options) with an ad-hoc hillside
longwire (same size, height, etc.). It worked like gang-busters.

Which style antenna would be best? Random or folded or ?

Just as you described it. Anything more convoluted is unlikely to
give you more performance.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 22:46:51 GMT, "Woody" wrote:

Ok, maybe that's what I'll do then... So should I use a balun of any kind or
just make a coax connection of my own?

Hi Woody,

To answer this and your other question about radials, I will use my
own experience.

I drove a ground rod at a remote point, about 12 feet from the house
and closer to the woods. My shack was at ground level and this rod
was more an anchor for a former vertical (where the rod extended up
out of the ground for a foot). Anyway, my principle ground was the
service ground 6 feet from my operating position with both rods tied
together.

At the remote rod (basically at the crest of the ridge), I fanned out
radials down the slope. Don't worry about tuning them, or cutting
them for a band, the proximity of ground completely negates any sense
of tune.

At this remote point, I built a box that contained a choke (a short
length of coax with 50 or 70 beads) that terminated in a BNC bulkhead
connector at one end, and two porcelain posts.

One post was tied to the radial field, the other post was tied to the
skywire. This put the system ground out at the feedpoint when I ran
battery (I always do unless I am on a float charge). This means any
house noise was 12 feet further away than would have normally been
encountered and snubbed properly by the choke. I measured this and
found it to be quite effective for noise control alone.

The sky wire (12 ga THNN) merely lifted off from about 1 foot off the
ground up to the canopy (Maples) around 60 feet above. The wire ran
down the hill, on top of the canopy for about 200 feet. At the remote
end, I simply tied it to a limb (at ground level, the wire ending
somewhere high above) through a length of 1/16th inch nylon line
(crab-pot line). So, from the feedpoint to on-high, the wire
basically described a sideways V with ground (as the slope also fell
beneath it too at roughly the same angle of 25 degrees).

During a storm, two of my Maples snapped about 30 feet above ground
level (but down the slope) and one lay over horizontal, and was
suspended there 20 feet above ground by snagging other trees. The
traditional term for that 30 foot length of tree in this area is
called a "widow maker." On its way down, it hit my wire, ripped the
box off the post, yanked the coax along until it strained my house
connection and broke the coax connection there.

After the storm, I hove the wire over the widow maker, confirmed the
1/16th inch nylon withstood the strain (who wulda thought?) and
repaired the stripped BNC house connection. Amazingly only the ground
wire to the radial field broke when the box started to fly.

We get messages here from those who agonize about setting the woods on
fire - never happened to me, and I never worried about it.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Great, thanks! Really appreciate it,
Woody


"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 22:46:51 GMT, "Woody" wrote:

Ok, maybe that's what I'll do then... So should I use a balun of any kind
or
just make a coax connection of my own?

Hi Woody,

To answer this and your other question about radials, I will use my
own experience.

I drove a ground rod at a remote point, about 12 feet from the house
and closer to the woods. My shack was at ground level and this rod
was more an anchor for a former vertical (where the rod extended up
out of the ground for a foot). Anyway, my principle ground was the
service ground 6 feet from my operating position with both rods tied
together.

At the remote rod (basically at the crest of the ridge), I fanned out
radials down the slope. Don't worry about tuning them, or cutting
them for a band, the proximity of ground completely negates any sense
of tune.

At this remote point, I built a box that contained a choke (a short
length of coax with 50 or 70 beads) that terminated in a BNC bulkhead
connector at one end, and two porcelain posts.

One post was tied to the radial field, the other post was tied to the
skywire. This put the system ground out at the feedpoint when I ran
battery (I always do unless I am on a float charge). This means any
house noise was 12 feet further away than would have normally been
encountered and snubbed properly by the choke. I measured this and
found it to be quite effective for noise control alone.

The sky wire (12 ga THNN) merely lifted off from about 1 foot off the
ground up to the canopy (Maples) around 60 feet above. The wire ran
down the hill, on top of the canopy for about 200 feet. At the remote
end, I simply tied it to a limb (at ground level, the wire ending
somewhere high above) through a length of 1/16th inch nylon line
(crab-pot line). So, from the feedpoint to on-high, the wire
basically described a sideways V with ground (as the slope also fell
beneath it too at roughly the same angle of 25 degrees).

During a storm, two of my Maples snapped about 30 feet above ground
level (but down the slope) and one lay over horizontal, and was
suspended there 20 feet above ground by snagging other trees. The
traditional term for that 30 foot length of tree in this area is
called a "widow maker." On its way down, it hit my wire, ripped the
box off the post, yanked the coax along until it strained my house
connection and broke the coax connection there.

After the storm, I hove the wire over the widow maker, confirmed the
1/16th inch nylon withstood the strain (who wulda thought?) and
repaired the stripped BNC house connection. Amazingly only the ground
wire to the radial field broke when the box started to fly.

We get messages here from those who agonize about setting the woods on
fire - never happened to me, and I never worried about it.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Jul 9, 2:16 am, Richard Clark wrote:

Anything more convoluted is unlikely to
give you more performance.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Hi, Richard:

Should you check with your legal counsel before you make that
statement?

Bill

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:56:57 -0700, Bill wrote:

On Jul 9, 2:16 am, Richard Clark wrote:
Anything more convoluted is unlikely to
give you more performance.

Should you check with your legal counsel before you make that
statement?

Talk about convolution. Plug your legal counsel in and see if DX pegs
the S-Meter.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

In article ,
Richard Clark wrote:

Talk about convolution. Plug your legal counsel in and see if DX pegs
the S-Meter.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

No, Legal Counsel type folks are just one step Up the ladder from
Politicos, and they are only good for starting Diesel Engines in
very cold weather. Lots of HOT AIR, coming out of those guys.....
but how to get them to Blow it down the Intake Manifold.....

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @