I've never paid attention to the tool they use
when they put up the tent at the Charlotte show,
but it'll drive a 1 inch solid tent stake through
the asphalt parking lot like it's butter.

I've never been there to see what they have to do to pull
them out when the tent comes down.
The stakes sure hold the tent fine.

I'd like to drive a ground rod near the point where
the coax hooks to the ladder line from my G5RV,
but it's next to a large oak tree.
I can just imagine what getting through all those
roots would be like.

73, Ron

On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 15:14:02 -0700, Chuck Olson wrote:

I guess if you knew the part number for the "right fitting" you would
have told me. Can you describe what it looked like?

Yeah, I have no idea what the part number is, there wasn't one on the
fitting. It has an SDS Max (that's the next bigger one than SDS Plus,
right?) shaft that goes into the chuck of the drill, then that is fastened
to a sort of a cup fitting that fits over the end of the ground rod.

" None of those drills is suitable for driving ground rods. They are all
regular electric drills, with a conventional 3-jaw chuck and a lightweight
hammer action that depends on the chuck going round.

For driving ground rods, you need a different kind of 'hammer' drill that
has a separate high-impact hammer action, that can be used *without* the
chuck going round.

The SDS+ system is the Bosch company's patented method to build hand-held
electric drills with a *serious* high-impact hammer action. The system has
been widely licensed to other manufacturers, so all SDS+ drills are
basically the same. They all have a snap-lock chuck (if it has a 3-jaw
chuck, it ain't SDS) that takes a wide range of heavy-duty drill bits and
tools. Most have a shift lever that gives you the choice between rotary
action on its own, hammer action on its own, or both together - all in a
drill that you can hold in one hand. It makes those old-style hammer
drills look like toys.

The Hilti TE-76-ATC that Rick rented is based on the SDS Max system, the
'big brother' to SDS+, so it's no wonder those ground rods went right in.

A compressor and an air chisel do exactly that, and 16mm rod will directly
fit into most chisels.

Jeff

I've never paid attention to the tool they use
when they put up the tent at the Charlotte show,
but it'll drive a 1 inch solid tent stake through
the asphalt parking lot like it's butter.

I've never been there to see what they have to do to pull
them out when the tent comes down.
The stakes sure hold the tent fine.

I'd like to drive a ground rod near the point where
the coax hooks to the ladder line from my G5RV,
but it's next to a large oak tree.
I can just imagine what getting through all those
roots would be like.
==============================
Having followed this thread for some time , my simple question is :

Are ground rods really necessary for a good " RF Earth " ?

Are buried or elevated radials or an area covered with '(galvanised)
wire mesh' not equally effective or even superior ?

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH

Highland Ham wrote:
==============================
Having followed this thread for some time , my simple question is :

Are ground rods really necessary for a good " RF Earth " ?

No. But they're essential for a good lightning ground or safety (mains)
ground.

Are buried or elevated radials or an area covered with '(galvanised)
wire mesh' not equally effective or even superior ?

For RF, yes. For lightning or safety ground, no.

You should be able to find a great deal of information about the
different requirements for different grounds by searching previous
postings of this newsgroup with groups.google.com.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

"Highland Ham" wrote in message
...
I've never paid attention to the tool they use
when they put up the tent at the Charlotte show,
but it'll drive a 1 inch solid tent stake through
the asphalt parking lot like it's butter.

I've never been there to see what they have to do to pull
them out when the tent comes down.
The stakes sure hold the tent fine.

I'd like to drive a ground rod near the point where
the coax hooks to the ladder line from my G5RV,
but it's next to a large oak tree.
I can just imagine what getting through all those
roots would be like.
==============================
Having followed this thread for some time , my simple question is :

Are ground rods really necessary for a good " RF Earth " ?

Are buried or elevated radials or an area covered with '(galvanised)
wire mesh' not equally effective or even superior ?

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH

Frank

For RF purposes, radials or mesh are more effective than ground rods.
Radials and mesh form a 'mirror' surface at RF effectively reflecting an
image of the elevated antenna radiating element. It is not necessary to
actually have a 'good' connection to real earth, just the antenna system.
This is why elevated radials can work.

The radiating portion of the antenna needs something to 'work' against. So
you have two choices, a monopole antenna which can be thought of as working
against it's reflection in the earth, or a dipole antenna where each antenna
element works against the other. Just about all antennas are variants of
these two methods.

Mike G0ULI

I'd like to drive a ground rod near the point where
the coax hooks to the ladder line from my G5RV,
but it's next to a large oak tree.
I can just imagine what getting through all those
roots would be like.

If you have a rotary-hammer drill (as opposed to a plain hammer) you can
use a very long spiral drill bit to make a pilot hole through all the
roots, before hammering in the ground rod.

SDS masonry bits are available up to 1.0m long and will drill through
almost anything, including tree roots and even solid rock. If you can
drill a pilot hole, it almost guarantees that you'll be able to hammer
in the first 3 feet of ground rod very easily. Beyond that depth, it
depends what kind of ground you're in, and how far your luck holds out.


Highland Ham wrote:
Having followed this thread for some time , my simple question is :

Are ground rods really necessary for a good " RF Earth " ?

Are buried or elevated radials or an area covered with '(galvanised)
wire mesh' not equally effective or even superior ?

Wire mesh makes an excellent RF ground. It is particularly good for
Field Days and DXpeditions because you can quickly roll out a large area
of ground cover (typically in a '+' formation) and then roll it up again
when you're done.

But never for a permanent installation! While clearing the ground at
this new QTH, I ran into an impossible tangle of matted grass and bits
of sharp, rusty mesh that turned out to be an abandoned chicken coop. We
finally had to plane off the whole area with a dozer blade, and that
still didn't get rid of it, of course - all we could do was push the
problem out of the way.

Having experienced the legacy left by abandoned chicken mesh, I have
vowed always to use conventional wire radials that can be pulled out
easily after I'm gone.


--

73 from Ian GM3SEK

None of those drills is suitable for driving ground rods. They are all
regular electric drills, with a conventional 3-jaw chuck and a
lightweight hammer action that depends on the chuck going round.

For driving ground rods, you need a different kind of 'hammer' drill
that has a separate high-impact hammer action, that can be used
*without* the chuck going round.


My mistake! I googled "hammer drill which was the wrong term, and
device. Instead, I should have used the term "Rotary Hammer" which is
the correct device one would use for driving ground rods. I have used a
Bosch model for many years.... an excellent device for driving copper
clad steel ground rods.... will actually crack and pierce rocks if they
are in the way.

The correct Bosch device can be found at:

http://www.tylertool.com/bosrotham.html


Ed K7AAT

Ed wrote:


None of those drills is suitable for driving ground rods. They are all
regular electric drills, with a conventional 3-jaw chuck and a
lightweight hammer action that depends on the chuck going round.

For driving ground rods, you need a different kind of 'hammer' drill
that has a separate high-impact hammer action, that can be used
*without* the chuck going round.


My mistake! I googled "hammer drill which was the wrong term, and
device. Instead, I should have used the term "Rotary Hammer" which is
the correct device one would use for driving ground rods.

Thank you for finding out the correct American name, Ed.

I have used a
Bosch model for many years.... an excellent device for driving copper
clad steel ground rods.... will actually crack and pierce rocks if they
are in the way.

The correct Bosch device can be found at:

http://www.tylertool.com/bosrotham.html

Yup, those are the ones, and Makita are good too.


--

73 from Ian GM3SEK

Ron in Radio Heaven wrote:
I've never paid attention to the tool they use
when they put up the tent at the Charlotte show,
but it'll drive a 1 inch solid tent stake through
the asphalt parking lot like it's butter.

I've never been there to see what they have to do to pull
them out when the tent comes down.

An automobile bumper jack works fairly well as a stake puller.