Hal Rosser wrote:
"Rick (W-A-one-R-K-T)" wrote in message
news
What do you all think of using heavy duty nylon rope instead of wire for
guys?



Paint it black - and that will strengthen it and protect it from crumbling
from the uv .


And pray that whatever you used to paint it with didn't weaken the nylon?

Buy UV resistant rope and the mfr will have pigmented it for you

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:04:05 -0400, "Rick (W-A-one-R-K-T)"
wrote:


What do you all think of using heavy duty nylon rope instead of wire for
guys?

I use it in areas where the stretching and elasticity is not a problem
such as guying to the middle of my AV640 vertical which is on top of a
40 foot tower. I put them up knowing they will stretch a *LOT* and
have to be re tightened several times in the first couple of weeks.

I have a Rohn 25G up 50 feet with a 2M/220/440 vertical on a 10-foot mast
on top of the tower. It is guyed at 30 feet with standard steel guy wire.

"Standard steel guy wire" is a pretty broad statement, but without a
whole lot of information. Steel guys vary from soft steel to the
Extra High Strength (EHS) that ROHN recommends. The steel guy wire
sold by Radio Shack can be pulled in two with just two men pulling.
I've done it. Galvanized wire rope is much better and easier to work
with, but it still has less strength than EHS or Phillystran.

I was just up the top of it two days ago installing the vertical, and it
seems rock solid.

I would not use Nylon rope on a tower as it would allow too much
flexing should you get a strong wind before the rope has aged and
finally taken a set. Nylon is not UV proof, but it will last a few
years.

You essentially have a 60' system and ROHN recommends two level guying
using 3/16" EHS steel tensioned to 400#. That means it's probably
4000# working strength or the same as HPTG40001 Phillystran

Even going to the 50' tower they still say guying at two levels with
3/16" EHS at 23 and 45 feet. With the array on top of a 10' mast I'd
put the top set one foot below the top of the tower and the other at
roughly 27 or 28 feet.

Why not use Phillystran (http://www.texastowers.com/philly.htm ). I
use it on a 100' ROHN 45G with a very large array on top.
You could use the HPTG12001 which is 1200# test at 45 cents per foot,
or the HPTG21001 which is 2100# test at 59 cents a foot. IF the
loading is light and you don't live in a high wind area.
Don't forget to tension the guys at 10% of their working load.

http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/Tower29.htm
The tower is guyed at three levels using Phyllistran HPTG40001 @ 4000#
test at 32 and 68 feet and HPTG67001 @ 6700# test at 97 feet.(IIRC)
http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/Tower30.htm The bottom set of
guys is almost impossible to see.

Note the bend in the AV640 due to the strong winds when the photo was
taken. The Nylon guys are in place. It had only been up a month or
so. That tower has since gone through a game of "musical sections"
with the top and base sections being replaced and a straight section
added above the base section to make 40 feet.


Now my next project is to put up a 3-element tribander, and while my guess
is it'll probably be OK without any additional guying, the paranoid in me
says "hey, bozo... put up another set of guys!".

A lot depends on the current installation, but you have the VHF/UHF
array at 60 feet. Being 10 feet above the top of the tower that is
quite a bending moment although to do that I'd assume you have the
rotator down inside the tower.


I'm wondering if heavy duty nylon rope will be sufficient. It'll sure be
easier to work with, and there won't be the issue of having to break up
the guys every so often to keep them from resonating.

There is a ham on the other side of town that has FOUR (4) Rohn 25G's up
120 feet each, arranged in a square, and fed with a phasing network as
phased verticals for 80 meters. Each of the four towers is guyed in two
or three places with polypropylene rope. Been up a long time and seems
OK. But, there isn't a tribander and rotator on top.

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 22:31:58 -0400, Roger (K8RI) wrote:

A lot depends on the current installation, but you have the VHF/UHF
array at 60 feet. Being 10 feet above the top of the tower that is
quite a bending moment although to do that I'd assume you have the
rotator down inside the tower.

Good afternoon, Roger.

The VHF/UHF "array" is merely a vertical, Diamond X3200. I'm quite
certain it and the relatively thin wall mast supporting it will break LONG
before the tower does even with no additional guying.

However, today I started thinking about maybe putting up a 2-element
SteppIR, mostly because I need to operate on MARS frequencies that are
a ways outside the 20-meter band. No doubt that becomes a whole 'nother
ballgame. I'll start a new thread on that topic.

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:30:17 -0400, "Rick (W-A-one-R-K-T)"
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 22:31:58 -0400, Roger (K8RI) wrote:

A lot depends on the current installation, but you have the VHF/UHF
array at 60 feet. Being 10 feet above the top of the tower that is
quite a bending moment although to do that I'd assume you have the
rotator down inside the tower.

Good afternoon, Roger.

The VHF/UHF "array" is merely a vertical, Diamond X3200. I'm quite
certain it and the relatively thin wall mast supporting it will break LONG

I think you'll be surprised at how much flexing tht antenna can take.
I've seen the one on the big tower bent over with the top appearing to
be 4 or 5 feet off from vertical. That's a long ways for a 21 foot
tall vertical.

before the tower does even with no additional guying.

I have two of the big Diamonds up. One is at roughly 30 feet on the
side of the big tower and the other is on top of 20' of 1 1/2" TV
masting on the3 North side of my shop. A third is going up on the big
tower for digtital at roughly 60 feet and the lower one is going to be
moved directly under it.

However, today I started thinking about maybe putting up a 2-element
SteppIR, mostly because I need to operate on MARS frequencies that are
a ways outside the 20-meter band. No doubt that becomes a whole 'nother
ballgame. I'll start a new thread on that topic.

Good Luck, es 73

effect on strength or life... I will leave you to think about that.

In this part of the world, riggers are supposed to inspect working fibre
ropes and condemn rope that is contaminated with paint or any type of
solvent.

Owen

This is especially true of saftey harnesses. During annual harness
inspection there is always someone who wrote their name on the harness with
a marker.
This harness must be condemned.

Jimmie

Jimmie D wrote:
effect on strength or life... I will leave you to think about that.

In this part of the world, riggers are supposed to inspect working fibre
ropes and condemn rope that is contaminated with paint or any type of
solvent.

Owen


This is especially true of saftey harnesses. During annual harness
inspection there is always someone who wrote their name on the harness with
a marker.
This harness must be condemned.

Jimmie


Isn't that what the tag is for? (a non-structural part that's sewn on
and write-on-able)

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 17:35:22 -0700, Jim Lux
wrote:

Jimmie D wrote:
effect on strength or life... I will leave you to think about that.

In this part of the world, riggers are supposed to inspect working fibre
ropes and condemn rope that is contaminated with paint or any type of
solvent.

Owen


This is especially true of saftey harnesses. During annual harness
inspection there is always someone who wrote their name on the harness with
a marker.
This harness must be condemned.

Jimmie


Isn't that what the tag is for? (a non-structural part that's sewn on
and write-on-able)

It is and if they are condemning them for that I believe someone is
misinterpreting the regs.