What do you all think of using heavy duty nylon rope instead of wire for
guys?

I have a Rohn 25G up 50 feet with a 2M/220/440 vertical on a 10-foot mast
on top of the tower. It is guyed at 30 feet with standard steel guy wire.
I was just up the top of it two days ago installing the vertical, and it
seems rock solid.

Now my next project is to put up a 3-element tribander, and while my guess
is it'll probably be OK without any additional guying, the paranoid in me
says "hey, bozo... put up another set of guys!".

I'm wondering if heavy duty nylon rope will be sufficient. It'll sure be
easier to work with, and there won't be the issue of having to break up
the guys every so often to keep them from resonating.

There is a ham on the other side of town that has FOUR (4) Rohn 25G's up
120 feet each, arranged in a square, and fed with a phasing network as
phased verticals for 80 meters. Each of the four towers is guyed in two
or three places with polypropylene rope. Been up a long time and seems
OK. But, there isn't a tribander and rotator on top.

"Rick (W-A-one-R-K-T)" wrote:

What do you all think of using heavy duty nylon rope instead of wire for
guys?

I have a Rohn 25G up 50 feet with a 2M/220/440 vertical on a 10-foot mast
on top of the tower. It is guyed at 30 feet with standard steel guy wire.
I was just up the top of it two days ago installing the vertical, and it
seems rock solid.

Now my next project is to put up a 3-element tribander, and while my guess
is it'll probably be OK without any additional guying, the paranoid in me
says "hey, bozo... put up another set of guys!".

I'm wondering if heavy duty nylon rope will be sufficient. It'll sure be
easier to work with, and there won't be the issue of having to break up
the guys every so often to keep them from resonating.

There is a ham on the other side of town that has FOUR (4) Rohn 25G's up
120 feet each, arranged in a square, and fed with a phasing network as
phased verticals for 80 meters. Each of the four towers is guyed in two
or three places with polypropylene rope. Been up a long time and seems
OK. But, there isn't a tribander and rotator on top.

Well, it depends...

Not all plastic rope is UV resistant, so you need to check.

For a given strength, the rope will be thicker and more visible, which
may or may not be a concern to you.

Rope will stretch quite a bit by comparison so the overall structure
won't be as rigid unless you put a LOT of tension on the rope.

Having said that, I have a 40M vertical made of aluminum tubing
guyed with UV resistant rope.

I have to replace the guys every 5 years or so.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Rick (W-A-one-R-K-T) wrote:

What do you all think of using heavy duty nylon rope instead of wire for
guys?

I have a Rohn 25G up 50 feet with a 2M/220/440 vertical on a 10-foot mast
on top of the tower. It is guyed at 30 feet with standard steel guy wire.
I was just up the top of it two days ago installing the vertical, and it
seems rock solid.

Now my next project is to put up a 3-element tribander, and while my guess
is it'll probably be OK without any additional guying, the paranoid in me
says "hey, bozo... put up another set of guys!".

I'm wondering if heavy duty nylon rope will be sufficient. It'll sure be
easier to work with, and there won't be the issue of having to break up
the guys every so often to keep them from resonating.

There is a ham on the other side of town that has FOUR (4) Rohn 25G's up
120 feet each, arranged in a square, and fed with a phasing network as
phased verticals for 80 meters. Each of the four towers is guyed in two
or three places with polypropylene rope. Been up a long time and seems
OK. But, there isn't a tribander and rotator on top.

The advantage of using rope is that it's nonconductive, which won't distort
the HF yagi's radiation pattern. If you are going to use rope, I recommend
you take a look at the comparison chart listed on McMaster-Carr's website
(http://www.mcmaster.com/). The material and the construction will have
something to do with the amount of stretch, UV resistance, etc. You'll see
that double-braided polyester or nylon would appear to be good choices for
their UV and stretch resistance.

If you don't place the guys immediately under the yagi, metal guys will work
fine if you break up any in-band resonances with insulators. For safety, use
*only* compression insulators (not strain insulators). I used to have a
homebrew 3-el 15m yagi at 38' (26' mast + 12' roof). Originally, I guyed it
w/ #14 solid galvanized steel wire. Eventually, the wire rotted-thru, and
down she came (it was not a good day). After repairing the yagi, I replaced
the guy wire with 1/16" 1x19 strand stainless steel wire rope (500# breaking
strength). That lasted another 15 years until I moved. The wire is still
like new -- no signs of rot. It was a worthwhile investment. Because of
your increased loading, you'd want to use something stronger than what I
used.

Bryan WA7PRC

"Rick (W-A-one-R-K-T)" wrote in message
news

What do you all think of using heavy duty nylon rope instead of wire for
guys?

I have a Rohn 25G up 50 feet with a 2M/220/440 vertical on a 10-foot mast
on top of the tower. It is guyed at 30 feet with standard steel guy wire.
I was just up the top of it two days ago installing the vertical, and it
seems rock solid.

Now my next project is to put up a 3-element tribander, and while my guess
is it'll probably be OK without any additional guying, the paranoid in me
says "hey, bozo... put up another set of guys!".

You don't want to use the nylon. In a few years the uv rays of the sun will
weaken it. You want to use something made for guying towers. Phillystran
is on type. It is expensive.
http://www.texastowers.com/philly.htm
Has it listed.

Rohn recommends guying a 50 foot tower at the 23 and 45 foot levels. That
is for 3/16 inch steel wire and that cable is rated for about 4000 pounds.
You normally put about 400 pounds of tension on the guy wire. While most
towers will stay up with much less, you can never tell when an ice storm
will hit and a big wind at the same time unless you are in an area that
never gets ice.

You may want to go here and read up on towers.

http://www.qsl.net/n1lo/tower_ref.pdf

Each of the four towers is guyed in two
or three places with polypropylene rope. Been up a long time and seems
OK. But, there isn't a tribander and rotator on top.
===============================
Polypropylene rope is usually coloured ,blue or yellow or orange or red
.. The pigment causes the material to deteriorate due to exposure to UV
(sunlight) .....even here in northern Scotland.
Result : life is approx 8 years
If they would use carbon black (soot) as pigment/filler life of the
material would be infinite ..........but then they wouldn't be able to
sell the rope any longer in reasonable quantities.
More expensive alternatives are (black) dacron or polyester rope (the
latter as mostly used for sailing yachts) ;these last for ever.

I currently use polypropylene for guying a 13 metres (43 ft) mast .
The guys have been in use for 7 years and will need to be replaced next
year . I probably will be using polyester rope.

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH

"Rick (W-A-one-R-K-T)" wrote in
news

What do you all think of using heavy duty nylon rope instead of wire
for guys?


Synthetic guy material is not new, but I have not seen a commercial
structure secured with nylon rope, or any other synthetic cable laid
rope.

That might just show my lack of experience, but...

I have seen commercial structures secured with synthetic material
designed for the purpose, Phillystran is one of the products that you can
Google for more information. They are typically a bundle of straight
fibres (Kevlar???) enclosed in a continuous waterproof, UV, acid, alkali
resistant plastic sheath and special terminals that achieve high strength
and prevent ingress of water (which could support mildew, ice damage
etc).

Galvanised HT guy wire is much cheaper than Phillystran.

In this part of the world, permanent guys using (natural or synthetic)
fibre rope is not generally permitted, so you would need engineering
support to justify such an installation. There are good reasons for this.

Owen

"Rick (W-A-one-R-K-T)" wrote in message
news

What do you all think of using heavy duty nylon rope instead of wire for
guys?


Paint it black - and that will strengthen it and protect it from crumbling
from the uv .

"Hal Rosser" wrote in
:


"Rick (W-A-one-R-K-T)" wrote in message
news

What do you all think of using heavy duty nylon rope instead of wire
for guys?


Paint it black - and that will strengthen it and protect it from
crumbling from the uv .


It seems it is popularly believed that black rope is more likely to be
weatherproof than other colours.

There are a range of ropes with good UV resistance that are white, not by
accident, the white colour is a result of the technique used to give them
enhanced UV resistance. Look around at ropes used in maritime
environments and that last for years, they aren't all black, in fact it
is rare to see a dark coloured rope at all.

As to the wisdom of taking a rope of known chemistry, then applying paint
of non-specific chemistry to protect it without proper regard to the
effect on strength or life... I will leave you to think about that.

In this part of the world, riggers are supposed to inspect working fibre
ropes and condemn rope that is contaminated with paint or any type of
solvent.

Owen

What do you all think of using heavy duty nylon rope instead of wire
for guys?


Paint it black - and that will strengthen it and protect it from
crumbling from the uv .


It seems it is popularly believed that black rope is more likely to be
weatherproof than other colours.

There are a range of ropes with good UV resistance that are white, not by
accident, the white colour is a result of the technique used to give them
enhanced UV resistance. Look around at ropes used in maritime
environments and that last for years, they aren't all black, in fact it
is rare to see a dark coloured rope at all.
============
Especially at night.
=============

As to the wisdom of taking a rope of known chemistry, then applying paint
of non-specific chemistry to protect it without proper regard to the
effect on strength or life... I will leave you to think about that.
============
Its an antenna rope - so no dangers lurk.
I did not really check its chemistry.
===========

In this part of the world, riggers are supposed to inspect working fibre
ropes and condemn rope that is contaminated with paint or any type of
solvent.
======================
They ought to give those condemned ropes to hams, so they can paint'em and
give'm new life holding up antennas.
=================

Owen

Kool - I'm glad I didn't let one of the riggers from your side of the world
inspect my work. Guys for an antenna will be pretty static so the resulting
stiffness after painting the rope (1/4" cord actually) should not be a
problem.
I used a black latex enamel, strung the rope up and used a "glove" paint-pad
to paint the rope. after it dried, the rope was stronger, and the black
coating kept UV from the sun from hitting the nylon directly.
The nylon rope I used was cheap - so probably not UV-resistant on its
own. The paint was left over from painting something around the house - so
the experiment did not cost too much. But it worked. The paint stayed on -
did not flake off, try it.

Rick (W-A-one-R-K-T) wrote:
What do you all think of using heavy duty nylon rope instead of wire for
guys?
For a temporary (few week) installation?

Nylon degrades in UV
Nylon is quite stretchy, so you'd better be willing to tolerate a lot of
deflection under load.
Nylon is challenging to attach without severely weakening it (i.e. you
can't just tie any old knot)

OTOH, if you're talking about using something like 11mm static climbing
line and a short tower, you'll probably survive.



I have a Rohn 25G up 50 feet with a 2M/220/440 vertical on a 10-foot mast
on top of the tower. It is guyed at 30 feet with standard steel guy wire.
I was just up the top of it two days ago installing the vertical, and it
seems rock solid.

Now my next project is to put up a 3-element tribander, and while my guess
is it'll probably be OK without any additional guying, the paranoid in me
says "hey, bozo... put up another set of guys!".

Run the calculations and see..
Make your own risk assessment..

Your guys attach about halfway up, so you've got a situation where
there's a fair bending moment on the tower, as well as the usual
compression loads on a guyed tower. Bending loads are bad, because they
tend to aggravate the existing tendency to buckle.



I'm wondering if heavy duty nylon rope will be sufficient. It'll sure be
easier to work with, and there won't be the issue of having to break up
the guys every so often to keep them from resonating.

There is a ham on the other side of town that has FOUR (4) Rohn 25G's up
120 feet each, arranged in a square, and fed with a phasing network as
phased verticals for 80 meters. Each of the four towers is guyed in two
or three places with polypropylene rope. Been up a long time and seems
OK. But, there isn't a tribander and rotator on top.


Sure.. but what you describe is an anecdote, not an analysis. Compare
the kinds of rope (polypropylene vs polyamide (nylon)) and their
respective strengths, aging properties, and elasticity. Compare the wind
loads and their distribution, etc.

The short answer is "probably".. how close to "sure" do you need to be?
A temporary tower in the middle of a cow pasture for a weekend is a lot
different than a permanent installation in a suburban area.