On Jan 13, 2:55 pm, "AI4QJ" wrote:
"Derek" wrote in message

...

On Jan 13, 1:15 pm, "AI4QJ" wrote:

He has no "small' 160m antenna on his tower (so he is a fibber)

That's one hell of a statement, I assume you can back it up?

Hi Derek,

Actually, having a small 160m antenna is the "one hell of a statement".

That being the case, the burden is on art to back it up in the positive.

He will not.

Nobody can prove a negative; it is up to art prove the positive.

Sorry but your assumption cannot possibly be correct since it is impossible
to prove a negative.

AI4QJ


You made a positive statement, You called Art a "liar" that is a
big difference from saying you disagree with Art's claim that he can
build a small 160m antenna, if you can't back your statement up Art
deserves an apology.

Derek

On 12 Jan, 23:02, Dave Heil wrote:
art wrote:
At
the moment I do not have the smallest antenna for 160M on my tower
since the radiator is around 18 foot long and tipped at an angle to
reflect what the computer states. I suppose I will have to make one
that will fit into a 1 foot cubed carton to satisfy the term small.

That's great, Art. *How's it working out for you? *Did you work J5C over
the past couple of nights? *Did you snag G3JMJ's loud signal this evening?

I can load my 6m beam on 160m, but it doesn't work well at all. *I use a
slightly long inverted L with a series vacuum variable and nearly 6,000
feet of buried radials. *There's a three inch short, tapped coil to
ground at the feed point in order to match the antenna to the RG-213 I
feed it with. *The antenna isn't small and it isn't elegant.

I'm willing to listen to your ideas about how I can equal the signal
from that inverted L by using a much smaller antenna. *Why don't you
post information on such a creation?

Dave K8MN

Re Antennas and sharing. Checkout E ham forum
Art

On 13 Jan, 09:02, "AI4QJ" wrote:
"Derek" wrote in message

...





On Jan 13, 2:55 pm, "AI4QJ" wrote:
"Derek" wrote in message

....

On Jan 13, 1:15 pm, "AI4QJ" wrote:

He has no "small' 160m antenna on his tower (so he is a fibber)

That's one hell of a statement, I assume you can back it up?

Hi Derek,

Actually, having a small 160m antenna is the "one hell of a statement".

That being the case, the burden is on art to back it up in the positive..

He will not.

Nobody can prove a negative; it is up to art prove the positive.

Sorry but your assumption cannot possibly be correct since it is
impossible
to prove a negative.

AI4QJ

* * *You made a positive statement, You called Art a "liar"

I absolutely did not! Show my a quote where I used thre word liar. I called
him a fibber. Big difference. A fibber might actually have something like a
160m antenna, true, but as for 'small' that would be his exagerration based
on his literary license with words. He later said it was 16 feet in length..
That is not "small". With a large loading coil I could build a 16 foot very
inefficient 160m antenna but it would be a fib to say it was 'small' without
also stating the length. The term 'liar' is your own term that you made up..
apparently.

*that is a

big difference from saying you disagree with Art's claim that he can
build a small 160m antenna, if you can't back your statement up Art
deserves an apology.

Sure, IF I has used the term liar but that statement is in itself a lie.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If a efficient antenna is less than 20 feet long without any loading
and without a ground plane or matching systemsis not considered
"small" for 160 metres then pray tell me what is considered "small"
and I will take mine down and replace it with a smaller one.
In the mean time, I will accept that I am a liar, because my
definition of "small" does not meet your personal requirements
and all that's new on antennas must be rejected by slander
if necessary. As a newby you sure lined up quickly with the habits
of the founders of this group!

"AI4QJ" wrote in message
...

"art" wrote in message
...
On 12 Jan, 23:02, Dave Heil wrote:
art wrote:
At
the moment I do not have the smallest antenna for 160M on my tower
since the radiator is around 18 foot long and tipped at an angle to
reflect what the computer states. I suppose I will have to make one
that will fit into a 1 foot cubed carton to satisfy the term small.

That's great, Art. How's it working out for you? Did you work J5C over
the past couple of nights? Did you snag G3JMJ's loud signal this evening?

I can load my 6m beam on 160m, but it doesn't work well at all. I use a
slightly long inverted L with a series vacuum variable and nearly 6,000
feet of buried radials. There's a three inch short, tapped coil to
ground at the feed point in order to match the antenna to the RG-213 I
feed it with. The antenna isn't small and it isn't elegant.

I'm willing to listen to your ideas about how I can equal the signal
from that inverted L by using a much smaller antenna. Why don't you
post information on such a creation?

Dave K8MN

"Re Antennas and sharing. Checkout E ham forum
Art"

OK, I went to e ham forum and found 1732 pages of articles. It does not
allow me to filter on art, unwin or diamagnetic. Could you help us out a
little? This is like trying to literally find a needle in a haystack.

AI4QJ

Or Dougs tiny Adair.

On Jan 14, 2:02 am, "AI4QJ" wrote:
"Derek" wrote in message

...



On Jan 13, 2:55 pm, "AI4QJ" wrote:
"Derek" wrote in message

...

On Jan 13, 1:15 pm, "AI4QJ" wrote:



You made a positive statement, You called Art a "liar"

I absolutely did not! Show my a quote where I used thre word liar. I called
him a fibber. Big difference.



semantics


Derek

On Jan 14, 7:36 am, "AI4QJ" wrote:
"Derek" wrote in message

...



On Jan 14, 2:02 am, "AI4QJ" wrote:
"Derek" wrote in message

...

On Jan 13, 2:55 pm, "AI4QJ" wrote:
"Derek" wrote in message

...

On Jan 13, 1:15 pm, "AI4QJ" wrote:

You made a positive statement, You called Art a "liar"

I absolutely did not! Show my a quote where I used thre word liar. I
called
him a fibber. Big difference.

semantics

Yes, it's semantics, that's precisely why you are getting confused. "Derek"
(or whomever you are).

Do you have a call sign or something else that shows us who you are? I'm
sure you're not hiding your personhood intentionally, "Derek".


I am a retiree like many on this group living in Perth Australia,
who after many years of following this group has a great belief that
Art can do as he claims.
I am also a great believer in fair play, and calling someone a
fibber (liar) on open message without proof is not fair play in my
book.

Derek

On Jan 13, 9:31 am, art wrote:
On 12 Jan, 23:02, Dave Heil wrote:



art wrote:
At
the moment I do not have the smallest antenna for 160M on my tower
since the radiator is around 18 foot long and tipped at an angle to
reflect what the computer states. I suppose I will have to make one
that will fit into a 1 foot cubed carton to satisfy the term small.

That's great, Art. How's it working out for you? Did you work J5C over
the past couple of nights? Did you snag G3JMJ's loud signal this evening?

I can load my 6m beam on 160m, but it doesn't work well at all. I use a
slightly long inverted L with a series vacuum variable and nearly 6,000
feet of buried radials. There's a three inch short, tapped coil to
ground at the feed point in order to match the antenna to the RG-213 I
feed it with. The antenna isn't small and it isn't elegant.

I'm willing to listen to your ideas about how I can equal the signal
from that inverted L by using a much smaller antenna. Why don't you
post information on such a creation?

Dave K8MN

Re Antennas and sharing. Checkout E ham forum
Art

Arthur don't be so silly. As a fellow over-the-edge old fart
mechanical engineer you've obviously missed some some fundamentals.

Back in the day the IEEE and the ASME came to an agreement: They
wouldn't fiddle with Mohr's Circles if we didn't fiddle with
electromagnetic wave mechanics. You're in violation Arthur so so knock
it off.

How many countries do you have confirmed on 160?

Brian w3rv

On 13 Jan, 12:33, "AI4QJ" wrote:
"art" wrote in message

...
On 12 Jan, 23:02, Dave Heil wrote:





art wrote:
At
the moment I do not have the smallest antenna for 160M on my tower
since the radiator is around 18 foot long and tipped at an angle to
reflect what the computer states. I suppose I will have to make one
that will fit into a 1 foot cubed carton to satisfy the term small.

That's great, Art. How's it working out for you? Did you work J5C over
the past couple of nights? Did you snag G3JMJ's loud signal this evening?

I can load my 6m beam on 160m, but it doesn't work well at all. I use a
slightly long inverted L with a series vacuum variable and nearly 6,000
feet of buried radials. There's a three inch short, tapped coil to
ground at the feed point in order to match the antenna to the RG-213 I
feed it with. The antenna isn't small and it isn't elegant.

I'm willing to listen to your ideas about how I can equal the signal
from that inverted L by using a much smaller antenna. Why don't you
post information on such a creation?

Dave K8MN

"Re Antennas and sharing. Checkout E ham forum
Art"

OK, I went to e ham forum and found 1732 pages of articles. It does not
allow me to filter on art, unwin or diamagnetic. Could you help us out a
little? This is like trying to literally find a needle in a haystack.

AI4QJ- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They are rated the top two threads at the present time ( yesterday)
I can't remember the titles or every thing that was written but as the
top articles of interest I don't think you can consider it as looking
for a needle.
Art

On 13 Jan, 17:00, Brian Kelly wrote:
On Jan 13, 9:31 am, art wrote:





On 12 Jan, 23:02, Dave Heil wrote:

art wrote:
At
the moment I do not have the smallest antenna for 160M on my tower
since the radiator is around 18 foot long and tipped at an angle to
reflect what the computer states. I suppose I will have to make one
that will fit into a 1 foot cubed carton to satisfy the term small.

That's great, Art. *How's it working out for you? *Did you work J5C over
the past couple of nights? *Did you snag G3JMJ's loud signal this evening?

I can load my 6m beam on 160m, but it doesn't work well at all. *I use a
slightly long inverted L with a series vacuum variable and nearly 6,000
feet of buried radials. *There's a three inch short, tapped coil to
ground at the feed point in order to match the antenna to the RG-213 I
feed it with. *The antenna isn't small and it isn't elegant.

I'm willing to listen to your ideas about how I can equal the signal
from that inverted L by using a much smaller antenna. *Why don't you
post information on such a creation?

Dave K8MN

Re Antennas and sharing. Checkout E ham forum
Art

Arthur don't be so silly. As a fellow over-the-edge old fart
mechanical engineer you've obviously missed some some fundamentals.

Back in the day the IEEE and the ASME came to an agreement: They
wouldn't fiddle with Mohr's Circles if we didn't fiddle with
electromagnetic wave mechanics. You're in violation Arthur so so knock
it off.

How many countries do you have confirmed on 160?

Brian w3rv- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As I have stated before I am not active anymore
Art

On Jan 14, 9:06 am, "AI4QJ" wrote:
"Derek" wrote in message

...



On Jan 14, 7:36 am, "AI4QJ" wrote:
"Derek" wrote in message

...

On Jan 14, 2:02 am, "AI4QJ" wrote:
"Derek" wrote in message

...

On Jan 13, 2:55 pm, "AI4QJ" wrote:
"Derek" wrote in message

...

On Jan 13, 1:15 pm, "AI4QJ" wrote:

You made a positive statement, You called Art a "liar"

I absolutely did not! Show my a quote where I used thre word liar. I
called
him a fibber. Big difference.

semantics

Yes, it's semantics, that's precisely why you are getting confused.
"Derek"
(or whomever you are).

Do you have a call sign or something else that shows us who you are? I'm
sure you're not hiding your personhood intentionally, "Derek".

I am a retiree like many on this group living in Perth Australia,
who after many years of following this group has a great belief that
Art can do as he claims.
I am also a great believer in fair play, and calling someone a
fibber (liar) on open message without proof is not fair play in my
book.

You may have a great faith in art but not quite enough to say so publically,
do you? It is easy to be an art unwin groupie (no...NOT so easy for most),
taking an insane position under the cloak of anonymity. For that reason, I
really think you have reservations. If you really believed in antennas that
shot particles out the ends, you would say so in the open! I googled your
userid and I see that you exclusively post only on rraa and only as a
cheerleader for arts theories on rraa. I have not seen one post of your's
that had any technical content. Fibber? You saw he defined is "small"
antenna at 18 feet; that's not small; anybody could load a stinger that long
with a coil and transmit at 160m so you're damn right it was a "fib". See
ya Derek, knowing that you have nothing technical to offer and that I don't
need to be bothered all the time by the unwin groupie cheerleader; plonk.



You say I am taking an insane position. You also say I have
reservations.
You know my name is Derek and that I live in Australia.
Art states he has an antenna for 160m on the top of his tower,I have
not seen it neither have you.
Over the years Art has stated many facts about this antenna.It is in
equilibrium without loading which also means it does not require a
ground plane ie direct connection to the feed line.
I also assume that impedance is termed as an acceptable level with a
suitable SWR so it can be driven,If it is on top of the tower with no
other support "most" would consider that small for 160m.
Now you can call him a liar, and I believe that he is not.!
So..... I am willing to raise the money for a wager based on the
above where you may place other conditions in this quest to determine
if Art is a liar or not.
You can also choose the judge, and who holds the money since I am
in Australia.
If we come to an agreement on terms I am willing to put down up to
$5000US.

All of the above is subject to Arts agreement for access to his
antenna
of course.


Derek