On 19 Jan, 18:52, "Tom Donaly" wrote:
AI4QJ wrote:
"art" wrote in message
...

Maybe to you, but some people on this newsgroup have alluded to my
honesty.

Haha, they merely "alluded" to your honesty, they were never able to
directly "attest" to it. How could they after hearing the whopper about of
the little antenna (a.k.a. "dummy load") for the big band?

I never played hooky from school in my lifetime( well maybe a couple
of times)

Is this another "allusion to", or "illusion of", *said honesty?

I am not a redneck so I had no fears that education would deteriate my
inbuilt intelligence

Indeed, if you had such fears there wouldn't have been anything to worry
about since your "education" had no effect on your journey to intellectual
absurdity.

like you did. So I was able to tuck a few years under my belt until a
free trip came about for my family and I to Central Illinois. Didn't
bargain on staying so I had to sell my house in London for a song. It
now costs so much I can't hardly afford to buy it back! By the way the
U.S. also subsidized the trip over, so your tax money was really
appreciated.

At which point during your sucking at the teat of the US taxpayer did
insanity enter into the equation?

A former immigrant who made so much money over here that he stayed.

Of course you stayed, they *all* stay. In my travels worldwide I am often
able to gain the confidence of people in other countries to the point that
they eventually say the negative things about the US that are deep seated in
their minds. At the same time, when I was empowered to offer the prospect of
green cards (as I have been a few times, and did,), without exception the
response was overwhelmingly positive. So, if the US is so ****ty, why do
they want to come here? The only answer can be that their home countries are
****tier, which in fact they always are (including any place in London that
art could afford to live in). The intent of art's post is to insult and
enrage Americans on this thread by saying, take all the foreign aid that
you, in your stupidity and ignorance, gave to me and my family and shove it
up in your idiot country's posterior. But, lest art's groupies become
confused, remember that arthur stayed here by choice and he is quite happy
here, building broadcast antennas that fit on dinner plates; it might just
work after all, *in the same country where it was possible to generate such
great profits for the inventor of the pet rock. Opportunities abound.

Pay no attention to him, Art, he's just another simple-minded nativist.
Actually, many people from India and China have come to Silicon Valley
and stayed long enough to get experience, after which, they went home,
started their own companies, and prosper to this day. Unless
AI4QJ is a Native American, he can't complain about immigration without
exposing himself as a hypocrite.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Tom,
Don't concern yourself with me. People who have something to offer
have my full attention.
This guy is acting like a baby and trying to censor me and my work,
but he can't do that if he himself has no credability. People on the
sidelines watching obviously are interested in antennas and can easily
spot those of no interest. He would be better of argueing about
standing/travelling waves which is garanteed employment for at least
five more years and where
Cecil will reply to him until hell freezes over on the subject. I may
put this new antenna
if I get brave enough to go out in the cold but then I may wait for
spring and concentrate on other things. Seems like people think I am
trying to sell them something, when I am not. I am retired and am not
interested in actively pursueing monetary rewards. I pay for a patent
as a record of my work. If money is offered I will take it to pay for
my other pursuits and I have many to complete.
Thanks for the effort anyway but let their comments slide over since
they are meaningless.
Best regards
Art Unwin...KB9MZ...xg(uk)

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 01:36:22 GMT, "Lee"
wrote:

As your interests span 20 down to 80

Only 20......

and Q intrudes into the bandwidth
you desire at the longer wavelengths, then lowering Q would only drive
down your efficiency and increase your complaint of getting out. It
seems you are rapidly moving away from the loops. You might (if you
can interpret the technical comments) try Arthur's contra-wound
inventions. No doubt, they too would make good receive antennas, and
the proximity of windings would lower Q, but this would come at a
severe loss of gain and sensitivity. A receiver has enough gain to
make up for this loss, but your transmitter is forever crippled with
the introduction of both Ohmic loss and its loss boost due to tightly
coupled currents.

A larger diameter antenna is called for if you are sticking with
loops, but that is probably unmanageable.

20 foot circumference is the longest magloop for 14megs operation!!!
That is with 90% efficiency...

Another breed of loop, the halfwave open loop allows you to build an
omni horizontal polarized antenna in a small area, but we now enter
into other issues you have not discussed. What resources, other than
the tower, are available to you for supporting the linear loaded
dipole you seek?

None

If you have four support points, your garden size is
not unsuited to a full half wave design, there are no Q issues, no
efficiency issues - except for matching to a 5 Ohm load. What can I
say? Compromise antennas demand care and feeding.


All i requested was a suitable design configuration for a linear loaded
halfsize
rotary dipole to go on top of the tower and my reasons why.......
not a discussion on magloops ....

I`ll go with the linear short 1/4 wave vertical layout for each leg of
the
dipole,
where half the element is fed back on itself down to 6 inches from the
ground
( or, in my case, to the mast ) with about 3 inch spacing of the element.

You lost me entirely here. You want a horizontal dipole, and you will
build a closely coupled vertical system that will rotate where half
the element is within 6 inches of ground? Too much is left unsaid in
this description. Is your tower guyed? Freestanding? You are using
the mast (tower?) as half the antenna? Is the mast (tower?) grounded?

This sounds like you are top feeding a vertical quarterwave open
transmission line that rotates around one element. If so, your feed
line is going to really become a nightmare of isolation. It will show
varying horizontal/vertical directivity to a loss of 10dB in any
direction - if you can match to the near short circuit conditions at
the feed point.

I`m not building a vertical !!!

I don't think this is what you mean, but what you describe is vague.

Probably.
Imagine a half wave dipole with each leg folded back on itself
effectively becoming half its original physical length but still
the original electrical length, each leg is like a long thin letter
`U` ..like a folded dipole that has been cut open circuit opposite
the feed point...I shouldn`t have mentioned a vertical because
it mis-lead you, it was meant just to describe the configuration
of the dipole legs.

Cheers.

Len.......G6ZSG.......

On 19 Jan, 20:42, "AI4QJ" wrote:
"art" wrote in message

...
On 19 Jan, 18:52, "Tom Donaly" wrote:





AI4QJ wrote:
"art" wrote in message
....

Maybe to you, but some people on this newsgroup have alluded to my
honesty.

Haha, they merely "alluded" to your honesty, they were never able to
directly "attest" to it. How could they after hearing the whopper about
of
the little antenna (a.k.a. "dummy load") for the big band?

I never played hooky from school in my lifetime( well maybe a couple
of times)

Is this another "allusion to", or "illusion of", said honesty?

I am not a redneck so I had no fears that education would deteriate my
inbuilt intelligence

Indeed, if you had such fears there wouldn't have been anything to worry
about since your "education" had no effect on your journey to
intellectual
absurdity.

like you did. So I was able to tuck a few years under my belt until a
free trip came about for my family and I to Central Illinois. Didn't
bargain on staying so I had to sell my house in London for a song. It
now costs so much I can't hardly afford to buy it back! By the way the
U.S. also subsidized the trip over, so your tax money was really
appreciated.

At which point during your sucking at the teat of the US taxpayer did
insanity enter into the equation?

A former immigrant who made so much money over here that he stayed.

Of course you stayed, they *all* stay. In my travels worldwide I am
often
able to gain the confidence of people in other countries to the point
that
they eventually say the negative things about the US that are deep
seated in
their minds. At the same time, when I was empowered to offer the
prospect of
green cards (as I have been a few times, and did,), without exception
the
response was overwhelmingly positive. So, if the US is so ****ty, why do
they want to come here? The only answer can be that their home countries
are
****tier, which in fact they always are (including any place in London
that
art could afford to live in). The intent of art's post is to insult and
enrage Americans on this thread by saying, take all the foreign aid that
you, in your stupidity and ignorance, gave to me and my family and shove
it
up in your idiot country's posterior. But, lest art's groupies become
confused, remember that arthur stayed here by choice and he is quite
happy
here, building broadcast antennas that fit on dinner plates; it might
just
work after all, in the same country where it was possible to generate
such
great profits for the inventor of the pet rock. Opportunities abound.

Pay no attention to him, Art, he's just another simple-minded nativist.
Actually, many people from India and China have come to Silicon Valley
and stayed long enough to get experience, after which, they went home,
started their own companies, and prosper to this day. Unless
AI4QJ is a Native American, he can't complain about immigration without
exposing himself as a hypocrite.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Tom,
Don't concern yourself with me. People who have something to offer
have my full attention.
This guy is acting like a baby and trying to censor me and my work,
but he can't do that if he himself has no credability. People on the
sidelines watching obviously are interested in antennas and can easily
spot those of no interest. He would be better of argueing about
standing/travelling waves which is garanteed employment for at least
five more years and where
Cecil will reply to him until hell freezes over on the subject. I may
put this new antenna
if I get brave enough to go out in the cold but then I may wait for
spring and concentrate on other things. Seems like people think I am
trying to sell them something, when I am not. I am retired and am not
interested in actively pursueing monetary rewards. I pay for a patent
as a record of my work. If money is offered I will take it to pay for
my other pursuits and I have many to complete.
Thanks for the effort anyway but let their comments slide over since
they are meaningless.

================================================== ====

One thing I will have to say, art, *is that either your loyal groupies in
faith-based "science" have a problem with reading comprehension or they
suffer from a cranial deficiency that precludes their ability to process
information following the rules of simple logic. This commonality amongst
your followers, modern day Don Quixote de la Manchas attacking the fierce
windmills of reasonable science on this ng, is the prime reason for my
having plonked each and every one of them.
================================================== ====- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As I have said many times, free speech is a right.The downside is that
it
portrays the manner of man who takes hold of that freedom.
When you stated I was dishonest it hurt, but then I realized that now
I
knew the manner of the man in question. When a door is slammed shut
in your face another always opens so that the light may enter. As Dr
King would say "I have seen the light"
and no doubt many others also have seen the light. I am not a liar and
some are willing to bet on it while you, the accuser, have turned
tail.
Art Unwin KB9MZ....XG(uk)

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 04:22:40 GMT, "Lee"
wrote:

I don't think this is what you mean, but what you describe is vague.

Probably.
Imagine a half wave dipole with each leg folded back on itself
effectively becoming half its original physical length but still
the original electrical length, each leg is like a long thin letter
`U` ..like a folded dipole that has been cut open circuit opposite
the feed point...I shouldn`t have mentioned a vertical because
it mis-lead you, it was meant just to describe the configuration
of the dipole legs.

Hi Len,

This is more tenable. A satisfactory dipole, no horrendous loss due
to counter winding feed. If you can hoist a beam, about 19 feet wide,
with two wires connected at the ends and returning below it about 4
inches coming back within 4 inches of the beam above; then you stand a
chance, provided you can match to about a 7 Ohm load.

I presume your description follows something like (in fixed font):

_____________________________0____________________ __________
| |
———————————————————————————— —————————————————————————————


73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 04:22:40 GMT, "Lee"
wrote:

I don't think this is what you mean, but what you describe is vague.

Probably.
Imagine a half wave dipole with each leg folded back on itself
effectively becoming half its original physical length but still
the original electrical length, each leg is like a long thin letter
`U` ..like a folded dipole that has been cut open circuit opposite
the feed point...I shouldn`t have mentioned a vertical because
it mis-lead you, it was meant just to describe the configuration
of the dipole legs.

Hi Len,

This is more tenable. A satisfactory dipole, no horrendous loss due
to counter winding feed. If you can hoist a beam, about 19 feet wide,
with two wires connected at the ends and returning below it about 4
inches coming back within 4 inches of the beam above; then you stand a
chance, provided you can match to about a 7 Ohm load.

I presume your description follows something like (in fixed font):

_____________________________0____________________ __________
| |
---------------------------- -----------------------------


Yes. Richard, you have it now...i was mainly concerned about the spacing
of the foldback from the parent element as i have seen much more exotic
layouts using 3 and four foldbacks using 400ohm ribbon feeder for the
element which i might try for 80 and 160, but i`ll make those using spaced
single wire dipoles rather than utilise a rigid rotatable ten meter dipole
and
a couple of lengths of wire..maybe i can do the same again for a reflector??

_______________O_______________
[_____________ I _____________]
I
I
_________________I __________________
[_______________ ________________]


Regards....

Len...........G6ZSG.........

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 09:03:05 GMT, "Lee"
wrote:

Yes. Richard, you have it now...i was mainly concerned about the spacing
of the foldback from the parent element as i have seen much more exotic
layouts using 3 and four foldbacks using 400ohm ribbon feeder for the
element which i might try for 80 and 160, but i`ll make those using spaced
single wire dipoles rather than utilise a rigid rotatable ten meter dipole
and
a couple of lengths of wire..

Hi Len,

As for going lower to 80M using 3 or more foldbacks (for the simpler
dipole) to keep it in your garden. Stick with your mag loops, because
it doesn't get any better.

Using 3 foldbacks for 80M (and the antenna is too wide for your
garden) will give you a 10 KHz bandwidth at the 2:1 SWR points. Making
the antenna smaller to fit, drives up the Q. 160M only portends worse
Q (from your point of view).

A small dipole, like a small loop, either are going to be hi Q if they
are to be efficient.

maybe i can do the same again for a reflector??

_______________O_______________
[_____________ I _____________]
I
I
_________________I __________________
[_______________ ________________]


YOW!!!

You are now getting quite elaborate. You can accomplish this, with
great care, and if you have the patience to raise and lower this half
a dozen times or more to get it right.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 09:03:05 GMT, "Lee"
wrote:

Hi Len,

As for going lower to 80M using 3 or more foldbacks (for the simpler
dipole) to keep it in your garden. Stick with your mag loops, because
it doesn't get any better.

Using 3 foldbacks for 80M (and the antenna is too wide for your
garden) will give you a 10 KHz bandwidth at the 2:1 SWR points. Making
the antenna smaller to fit, drives up the Q. 160M only portends worse
Q (from your point of view).

A small dipole, like a small loop, either are going to be hi Q if they
are to be efficient.

Ah!! thanks for that Richard, I`ve learned something new as i thought `Q`
remained the same as for a regular dipole - stretched or folded...

maybe i can do the same again for a reflector??

_______________O_______________
[_____________ I _____________]
I
I
_________________I __________________
[_______________ ________________]


YOW!!!

You are now getting quite elaborate. You can accomplish this, with
great care, and if you have the patience to raise and lower this half
a dozen times or more to get it right.

Well, i`ve got a bit of time now i`m retired ....... ;o)

I`m also looking into a Marconi vertical linear loaded, i`ve already
got considerable radials buried as a start.

Regards......

Lee.....G6ZSG......