Cecil Moore wrote:
Gene Fuller wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote:
For the record, I have not used field vectors at all
during this discussion. Everything I have ever posted
have used phasors. From the IEEE Dictionary, "E and H
are the electric and magnetic field vectors in phasor
notation". That is what I have been doing all along.

The "notation" is not the most important part. "Phasor notation" is
simply a means expressing the phase in terms of complex numbers. The
vector *direction* is all-important. That is the essential "vector"
part of the Poynting analysis. The vector *direction* is not addressed
at all by the phase or by phasor notation. Depending on the exact
notation, the vector "magnitude" may be described by phasor notation.
If one is going to correctly perform Poynting analysis, it is
necessary to consider field vectors. There is no alternative.

You apparently did not bother to read the IEEE Dictionary
definition above. Please do it and while you are at it,
would you please explain what the "complex conjugate"
means when one is not dealing with phasors? Exactly what
is the complex conjugate of a vector in free x,y,z space?
For instance, what is the complex conjugate of a vector
running from 0,0,0 to 1,2,3?


A suggestion. Read the IEEE Dictionary definition of "phasor" and report
back to us if you think it is used to specify a direction in real space
rather than phase space in the complex plane.

Yes, the complex conjugate adjusts the phase portion of the wave
description. However, it does not impact the real-space vector direction.

73,
Gene
W4SZ

Gene Fuller wrote:
A suggestion. Read the IEEE Dictionary definition of "phasor" and report
back to us if you think it is used to specify a direction in real space
rather than phase space in the complex plane.

I know the difference between phasors and vectors, Gene.
Most of my textbooks represent the E and H fields as
phasors, rather than vectors, by applying some logical
boundary conditions to the vectors. The IEEE Dictionary
says the E and H fields are represented as phasors.
You seem to stand completely alone in your insistence
that E and H fields cannot be represented as phasors.
Would you mind providing one iota of proof for that
assertion?

Yes, the complex conjugate adjusts the phase portion of the wave
description. However, it does not impact the real-space vector direction.

Contrary to *all* of my references, you said the Poynting
vector equals E x H* which apparently implies phasors rather
than vectors. Would you care to explain your H* notation
as it applies to real-space vectors? This is my question
which you didn't answer - asked in different words.

Exactly what is the complex conjugate of the vector that
extends from 0,0,0 to 1,2,3?
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Cecil Moore wrote:


I know the difference between phasors and vectors


So, is that the reason you created a web page showing 0 and 180 degree
phase shifts resulting from the reflection leading to standing waves and
then tried to use the resulting entities to calculate the Poynting
vector? An instantaneous Poynting vector, no less. (Now denied of course.)


8-)

73,
Gene
W4SZ

Gene Fuller wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote:
I know the difference between phasors and vectors

So, is that the reason you created a web page showing 0 and 180 degree
phase shifts resulting from the reflection leading to standing waves and
then tried to use the resulting entities to calculate the Poynting
vector?

I'll get back to you on that one when I figure it out.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com