I am a RACES / ARES member who is trying to actually prepare for
deployment with the ability to carry on effective communications from
anywhere. I'm here in the antenna forum to get advice on a portable
antenna system. I'm not here to join anyones particular theoretical
antenna behavior cult. If you have real world experience with a
portable multi band antenna system that actually worked for you please
share that experience with me.

Ive seen a couple of folded dipole antennas advertised that appear to
have some sort of fifty ohm dummy load at the center of the fold. Do
those things do more then provide a heat source for fleeing birds?

There are several compact vertical and horizontal antennas being sold
complete with stands or tripods are any of them worth their freight?

The so called spiderweb beams look interesting can anyone offer real
world experience on those?

I'm honestly looking for advice that is based on experience rather than
a particular theory of what should work. I want to know what does work
from real world users.
--
Tom Horne, W3TDH K

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

Tom Horne wrote:
I am a RACES / ARES member who is trying to actually prepare for
deployment with the ability to carry on effective communications from
anywhere. I'm here in the antenna forum to get advice on a portable
antenna system. I'm not here to join anyones particular theoretical
antenna behavior cult. If you have real world experience with a
portable multi band antenna system that actually worked for you please
share that experience with me.

Ive seen a couple of folded dipole antennas advertised that appear to
have some sort of fifty ohm dummy load at the center of the fold. Do
those things do more then provide a heat source for fleeing birds?

There are several compact vertical and horizontal antennas being sold
complete with stands or tripods are any of them worth their freight?

The so called spiderweb beams look interesting can anyone offer real
world experience on those?

I'm honestly looking for advice that is based on experience rather than
a particular theory of what should work. I want to know what does work
from real world users.

Tom;

A friend of mine had a multi band dipole sometime ago. This ant had a
separate dipole for each band all connected to one balun. It took us all
afternoon to tune it for optimum operation. Each time we tuned one
dipole the others needed work. YMMV.

I have a B&W folded dipole all frequency folded dipole that does what I
want it to do. When operated in NVIS I was able to contact stations over
400 miles away. I most likely could have done better but that was all I
need for the application.

The connection at the ends of the dipole consisted of a non inductive
resistor of either 600 or 1200 ohms (I disremember which). This does
swamp the reflected energy when the wire is non resonant. There are
those who claim the antenna is the work of the devil and those who sing
the praises of the thing. All I can say is that it did the job I wanted
it for. My problem now is I can't string it up at my new QTH. Lot to
short and no place for the sky hooks. :^(

I also have a screwdriver antenna on my vehicle that also does the job
it's designed for. It is not the most efficient antenna in the world
either. However, I learned long ago that whatever answers the question
no matter how inefficient is a success.

Screwdriver's can be mounted on a tripod and will perform.

Dave WD9BDZ

Remember YMMV

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 04:23:16 GMT, Tom Horne
wrote:

I want to know what does work from real world users.

Tom,

Used to provide checkpoint communications for the Baja offroad races.
Best antennas we found for consistent regional communications were low
horizontal dipoles fed with balanced line. You could tune them on any
band and the radiation pattern was UP. Google NVIS antennas, or start
he

http://www.qsl.net/wb5ude/nvis/

S.T.W.

Tom Horne wrote:
I'm honestly looking for advice that is based on experience rather than
a particular theory of what should work. I want to know what does work
from real world users.

What are you limitations? Supports? Size? Power?
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 04:23:16 GMT, Tom Horne
wrote:

I am a RACES / ARES member who is trying to actually prepare for
deployment with the ability to carry on effective communications from
anywhere. I'm here in the antenna forum to get advice on a portable
antenna system. I'm not here to join anyones particular theoretical
antenna behavior cult. If you have real world experience with a
portable multi band antenna system that actually worked for you please
share that experience with me.

Ive seen a couple of folded dipole antennas advertised that appear to
have some sort of fifty ohm dummy load at the center of the fold. Do
those things do more then provide a heat source for fleeing birds?

There are several compact vertical and horizontal antennas being sold
complete with stands or tripods are any of them worth their freight?

The so called spiderweb beams look interesting can anyone offer real
world experience on those?

I'm honestly looking for advice that is based on experience rather than
a particular theory of what should work. I want to know what does work
from real world users.
There are a multitude of answers for this question.

I know my solution will annoy the purists, but I offer it anyway...
I would recommend using the SGC-237 tuner (not cheap)! If it cannot
load what ever antenna you can get up or improvise it probably cannot
be done. With this device, a ground and 28 feet of vertical wire you
can work to 160 meters. Of course the better the ground, the better
the performance. A quarter wave on frequency might work better, but
whatever you have will work.

If the conditions permit a more elaborate antenna, the SGC-237 will
make the matching an non issue.

I am aware that a pi-network and skilled operator can out perform the
tuner but the tuner takes the problem out of the field and into the
planning stage.

John Ferrell W8CCW
"Life is easier if you learn to
plow around the stumps"

John Ferrell wrote:
I know my solution will annoy the purists, but I offer it anyway...
I would recommend using the SGC-237 tuner (not cheap)! If it cannot
load what ever antenna you can get up or improvise it probably cannot
be done. With this device, a ground and 28 feet of vertical wire you
can work to 160 meters. Of course the better the ground, the better
the performance. A quarter wave on frequency might work better, but
whatever you have will work.

I have used a 22 foot vertical with 22 foot radials
fed by an SG-230 for effective 40m-10m operation.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Cecil Moore wrote:
Tom Horne wrote:
I'm honestly looking for advice that is based on experience rather
than a particular theory of what should work. I want to know what
does work from real world users.

What are you limitations? Supports? Size? Power?

Supports are an open question. I expect to have at least a forty eight
foot, two inch, aluminum, mast to use because that is what I'm buying to
support a directional or omni antenna array for the six, two, and three
quarter meter bands. That mast is available in eight foot long
sections. The six sections, couplers, guy rings, and the rest of the
mast assembly will live in one of those long air luggage carriers with
two built in wheels on one end that people use for things like skis. I
can certainly include one or more of the surplus GI plastic or aluminum
masts in the mobile equipment set, but three masts would be too much for
deployments involving commercial airline flights. Depending on how
heavy all of that is I could put one or two of the forty one foot
Jackite(r) poles or equivalent in that same kit.

The power would be the one hundred watts that can be gotten from one of
the DC to daylight mobile transceivers such as my Yaesu FT-857D. I
expect to build my lugable station into an air transport case with the
internal shelves and the removable front and back covers. That station
will have 1200/9600 packet for Winlink 2000 radio Email composed of a
laptop, TNC, and data radio. A dual bander for VHF / UHF voice and the
Yaesu FT-857D for HF. If the Kenwood TM-D710A continues to get high
reviews I'll use it for both voice and data on VHF / UHF and leave the
separate TNC for a ground mobile deployment. The rest of the weight
will be the power supply and rechargeable AGM battery up to the weight
limit prescribed for a single piece of airline passenger baggage. If
that ends up being impractical from a weight standpoint I might break it
up into two air transport cases. If I remember correctly they simply
won't transport an overweight item but they just charge you extra for
having an extra piece of baggage.

My reason for wanting to identify the antennas first is that they sort
of govern what else is possible.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

John Ferrell wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 04:23:16 GMT, Tom Horne
wrote:

I am a RACES / ARES member who is trying to actually prepare for
deployment with the ability to carry on effective communications from
anywhere. I'm here in the antenna forum to get advice on a portable
antenna system. I'm not here to join anyones particular theoretical
antenna behavior cult. If you have real world experience with a
portable multi band antenna system that actually worked for you please
share that experience with me.

Ive seen a couple of folded dipole antennas advertised that appear to
have some sort of fifty ohm dummy load at the center of the fold. Do
those things do more then provide a heat source for fleeing birds?

There are several compact vertical and horizontal antennas being sold
complete with stands or tripods are any of them worth their freight?

The so called spiderweb beams look interesting can anyone offer real
world experience on those?

I'm honestly looking for advice that is based on experience rather than
a particular theory of what should work. I want to know what does work
from real world users.
There are a multitude of answers for this question.

I know my solution will annoy the purists, but I offer it anyway...
I would recommend using the SGC-237 tuner (not cheap)! If it cannot
load what ever antenna you can get up or improvise it probably cannot
be done. With this device, a ground and 28 feet of vertical wire you
can work to 160 meters. Of course the better the ground, the better
the performance. A quarter wave on frequency might work better, but
whatever you have will work.

If the conditions permit a more elaborate antenna, the SGC-237 will
make the matching an non issue.

I am aware that a pi-network and skilled operator can out perform the
tuner but the tuner takes the problem out of the field and into the
planning stage.

John Ferrell W8CCW
"Life is easier if you learn to
plow around the stumps"

I didn't mention the issue of antenna tuners it but I was thinking of
including the Yaesu FC-30 tuner in the HF set but I wanted to get some
advice first. I was considering that tuner because it can be directly
controlled by the transceiver and even bolted right to it. If that's a
bad idea I have not bought one yet.

I take it you are not a fan of the diesel fuel and ammonium nitrate
fertilizer solution to stumps. {;)
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

In article ,
Cecil Moore wrote:

Tom Horne wrote:
I'm honestly looking for advice that is based on experience rather than
a particular theory of what should work. I want to know what does work
from real world users.

What are you limitations? Supports? Size? Power?

As far as Autotuners, especially the Motorola based, Stepped, Binary,
Lumped, Incremental Component Tuners, (SEA, SGC, etc) they have some
inherent problems that are a function of the design criteria. First,
they can't tune ANYWHERE (50 Khz or more) near the natural 1/2 wave
point of the attached antenna, where impedances head for infinity.
Second, they MUST have a very good RF Ground to work against, in order
to function properly. Don't even "think" the word "Counterpoise", but do
demand the phrase, LOW Impedance RF Ground, when engineering an
effective use of such an Autotuner. There have been some, that have used
these type tuners, as a Tuned Element in the center of a Dipole, but
again, these are severely compromised antenna systems, and not likely to
out preform a Dipole or Inverted Vee, Tuned for the Operating Frequency.

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:10:32 GMT, Tom Horne
wrote:

The six sections, couplers, guy rings, and the rest of the
mast assembly will live in one of those long air luggage carriers with
two built in wheels on one end that people use for things like skis.

Hi Tom,

With some care in isolating the VHF antennas you hoist aloft, you
could turn the mast and guys into a thick radiator capable of covering
80 through 30 Meters omni. With some effort in trap building (into
the conducting guys) you could extend that higher. The more radial
guys, the easier the broad band match; however, this can become an
issue of diminishing returns and increasing complexity.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC