In article , Artem wrote:
On Mar 15, 12:28 am, K7ITM wrote:
On Mar 14, 2:15 pm, Artem wrote:
Yes...very good. That should help keep the loop nicely balanced,
especially if you build it all very symmetrical. That one more tube

Hi. I have some problem. I can't receive nothing except noise And self
oscillation frequency.
I have some photos. Could any give me some suggestions?
Antenna:
http://artembond.no-ip.info/apache2-...t/DSC_9427.JPG

Chematics:
http://artembond.no-ip.info/apache2-...t/DSC_9431.JPG

Amplifier:
http://artembond.no-ip.info/apache2-...t/DSC_9426.JPG

I think you need to narrow band those photos.

greg

On Mar 20, 10:07 pm, (GregS) wrote:
In article , Artem wrote:


I think you need to narrow band those photos.

Sorry for hosting.

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 20:07:43 GMT, in sci.electronics.design
(GregS) wrote:

In article , Artem wrote:
On Mar 15, 12:28 am, K7ITM wrote:
On Mar 14, 2:15 pm, Artem wrote:
Yes...very good. That should help keep the loop nicely balanced,
especially if you build it all very symmetrical. That one more tube

Hi. I have some problem. I can't receive nothing except noise And self
oscillation frequency.
I have some photos. Could any give me some suggestions?
Antenna:
http://artembond.no-ip.info/apache2-...t/DSC_9427.JPG

Chematics:
http://artembond.no-ip.info/apache2-...t/DSC_9431.JPG

Amplifier:
http://artembond.no-ip.info/apache2-...t/DSC_9426.JPG

I think you need to narrow band those photos.

greg

Yes
www.irfanview.com has an excellent bit of software that does just that


martin

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:58:02 -0700 (PDT), Artem
wrote:

Hi. I have some problem. I can't receive nothing except noise And self
oscillation frequency.

Try choking both what are labeled "RF Out" and "Shield Cable."

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Mar 20, 12:58 pm, Artem wrote:
On Mar 15, 12:28 am, K7ITM wrote: On Mar 14, 2:15 pm, Artem wrote:

Yes...very good. That should help keep the loop nicely balanced,

especially if you build it all very symmetrical. That one more tube

Hi. I have some problem. I can't receive nothing except noise And self
oscillation frequency.
I have some photos. Could any give me some suggestions?
Antenna:http://artembond.no-ip.info/apache2-...t/DSC_9427.JPG

Chematics:http://artembond.no-ip.info/apache2-...t/DSC_9431.JPG

Amplifier:http://artembond.no-ip.info/apache2-...t/DSC_9426.JPG

:-) I saw the comment about "narrow-banding" the images. They were
perhaps a little more than we needed, but it was nice to have
something we could actually see. They did not take very long to
download here, but someone with a slow connection may have troubles.

One comment: usually you do not need much voltage gain. It is enough
to get power gain with the FETs. That is, the received signal voltage
across the gap of the loop, as resonated by the capacitors, should be
high enough to be used with a good receiver. The problem is that the
impedance is very high there. But that same high impedance makes for
easy oscillation. From what you posted, it sounds like maybe you have
identified an oscillation. If the AGC voltage is low enough, does the
oscillation stop? The amplifier I built used two stages, an FET input
stage and a buffer stage, and it had very low voltage gain--I am
remembering about 3:1 or only 10dB, and maybe only 1:1 or 0dB
including the output transformer, but quite a bit of power gain since
it transformed the high loop impedance down to 50 ohms for the
feedline.

Also, there should be no need for the RF chokes from the gate-1 to
source, if the loop is grounded at the bottom. If the loop is
grounded at the bottom, the loop plus the RF chokes will short out the
source-to-ground resistor. Maybe there is not a need to raise the
source voltage above DC ground potential anyway. Also, it may help to
NOT bypass the sources to ground, to allow some negative feedback.
That may help stabilize the amplifier.

If other things occur to me, I will post them...

Cheers,
Tom

On Mar 21, 2:56 am, K7ITM wrote:
On Mar 20, 12:58 pm, Artem wrote:

:-) I saw the comment about "narrow-banding" the images. They were
perhaps a little more than we needed, but it was nice to have
something we could actually see. They did not take very long to
download here, but someone with a slow connection may have troubles.

I'm move images to ImageShack
http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc9427ib7.jpg
http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc9431tv9.jpg



One comment: usually you do not need much voltage gain. It is enough
to get power gain with the FETs. That is, the received signal voltage
across the gap of the loop, as resonated by the capacitors, should be
high enough to be used with a good receiver. The problem is that the
impedance is very high there. But that same high impedance makes for
easy oscillation. From what you posted, it sounds like maybe you have
identified an oscillation. If the AGC voltage is low enough, does the
oscillation stop?

Yes. It's stop. my main reason for this antenna is make very narrow
antenna for city. I can't receive to my receiver almost nothing by big
nose from computers, lamps and other things. But looks like this
antenna did not help. Its amplify narrow-band noise. And even add more
noise when oscillated.

The amplifier I built used two stages, an FET input
stage and a buffer stage, and it had very low voltage gain--I am
remembering about 3:1 or only 10dB, and maybe only 1:1 or 0dB
including the output transformer, but quite a bit of power gain since
it transformed the high loop impedance down to 50 ohms for the
feedline.

Also, there should be no need for the RF chokes from the gate-1 to
source, if the loop is grounded at the bottom.

Source is not grounded for DC. For better transistors matching and
overcurrent protection.

If the loop is
grounded at the bottom, the loop plus the RF chokes will short out the
source-to-ground resistor. Maybe there is not a need to raise the
source voltage above DC ground potential anyway. Also, it may help to
NOT bypass the sources to ground, to allow some negative feedback.
That may help stabilize the amplifier.

Sources is not grounded.

On Mar 21, 1:36 am, Richard Clark wrote:
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:58:02 -0700 (PDT), Artem
wrote:

Hi. I have some problem. I can't receive nothing except noise And self
oscillation frequency.

Try choking both what are labeled "RF Out" and "Shield Cable."

Thank. It's good idea. I'll try.

On Mar 21, 3:08 am, Artem wrote:
On Mar 21, 2:56 am, K7ITM wrote:

On Mar 20, 12:58 pm, Artem wrote:

:-) I saw the comment about "narrow-banding" the images. They were
perhaps a little more than we needed, but it was nice to have
something we could actually see. They did not take very long to
download here, but someone with a slow connection may have troubles.

I'm move images to ImageShackhttp://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc9427ib7.jpghttp://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc9431tv9.jpg



One comment: usually you do not need much voltage gain. It is enough
to get power gain with the FETs. That is, the received signal voltage
across the gap of the loop, as resonated by the capacitors, should be
high enough to be used with a good receiver. The problem is that the
impedance is very high there. But that same high impedance makes for
easy oscillation. From what you posted, it sounds like maybe you have
identified an oscillation. If the AGC voltage is low enough, does the
oscillation stop?

Yes. It's stop. my main reason for this antenna is make very narrow
antenna for city. I can't receive to my receiver almost nothing by big
nose from computers, lamps and other things. But looks like this
antenna did not help. Its amplify narrow-band noise. And even add more
noise when oscillated.

The amplifier I built used two stages, an FET input

stage and a buffer stage, and it had very low voltage gain--I am
remembering about 3:1 or only 10dB, and maybe only 1:1 or 0dB
including the output transformer, but quite a bit of power gain since
it transformed the high loop impedance down to 50 ohms for the
feedline.

Also, there should be no need for the RF chokes from the gate-1 to
source, if the loop is grounded at the bottom.

Source is not grounded for DC. For better transistors matching and
overcurrent protection.

If the loop is grounded at the bottom, the loop plus the RF chokes will short out the
source-to-ground resistor. Maybe there is not a need to raise the
source voltage above DC ground potential anyway. Also, it may help to
NOT bypass the sources to ground, to allow some negative feedback.
That may help stabilize the amplifier.

Sources is not grounded.

Yes, unfortunately noise that is generated more than one or two
wavelengths away from your antenna will be almost entirely
electromagnetic by the time it reaches your antenna. Antennas do not
differentiate between "electrically generated" and "magnetically
generated" noise, when you are far enough that the electromagnetic
field dominates over any near-field electric or magnetic field. The
balanced small loop is good for rejecting electric-field noise only if
(1) the noise is generated close to the antenna and (2) the antenna is
close to the ground (so the electric field is guaranteed to be nearly
vertical) -- -- where "close" means relative to a wavelength. So the
small balanced loop is especially good for LF and VLF work.

Perhaps someone else will have suggestions about what else you might
try.

Cheers,
Tom

On Mar 21, 6:26 pm, K7ITM wrote:
On Mar 21, 3:08 am, Artem wrote:

Sources is not grounded.

Yes, unfortunately noise that is generated more than one or two
wavelengths away from your antenna will be almost entirely
electromagnetic by the time it reaches your antenna. Antennas do not
differentiate between "electrically generated" and "magnetically
generated" noise, when you are far enough that the electromagnetic

I did not hear nothing about electrically or magnetically photons.
It's just photons.

field dominates over any near-field electric or magnetic field. The
balanced small loop is good for rejecting electric-field noise only if
(1) the noise is generated close to the antenna and

Yes. Computer, lamps etc close to antenna.

(2) the antenna is
close to the ground (so the electric field is guaranteed to be nearly

15 floor of 16-floor building. But I think that in this case "ground"
are building walls.

vertical) -- -- where "close" means relative to a wavelength. So the
small balanced loop is especially good for LF and VLF work.

my reason was make narrow-band antenna. For reject all out of band
noise.


Perhaps someone else will have suggestions about what else you might
try.

Cheers,
Tom

my reason was make narrow-band antenna. For reject all out of band
noise.

That is a very worthwhile objective. All that noise adds to the
intermod noise and the sooner you can stop it, the better.

In my youth I recall calling CQ on 42 mhz for a couple of weeks.
Fortunately, a very sharp yagi and very low power saved me from a
violation.

John Ferrell W8CCW
Beware of the dopeler effect (pronounced dope-ler).
That's where bad ideas seem good if they come at you
fast enough.