On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 00:02:24 -0700, Bill wrote:

With a small TV antenna from Sears (like Sal, back in the mid 60s), up
5 feet above the roof (split level), on the crest of a hill (6200 feet
in Colorado Springs), I was able to DX Calgary and Edmonton.

In California we would call that hill a mountain.

Hi Bill,

No, in Colorado, mountains don't really begin before 8-9,000 feet
(with 100 peaks above 10,000 feet). Last year I was driving through
passes at 11,000 feet.

6200 feet in the Springs is basically out on the prairie on a slight
rise. The antenna thus was only 20 odd feet above average ground, and
that average ground was a slight hill of 300 - 400 feet. I had a
clear view of the front range and Denver's TV antennas were on that 60
to 80 miles north-north-west - probably just line of sight through the
Black Forest given the marginal signal. Denver, the Mile High City,
actually sits in a bowl. The generally lowest point in Colorado (if I
am not mistaken) is out on the SE corner at about 3500 feet where it
is definitely in the great plains (as you would have been for hours
driving to get there).

DX'ing here is only
north and south since I am in the central valley north of Sacramento,
but I did sometimes get Reno, Nevada. It only worked up to channel 5 and
then 6 and 7 were somewhere higher, then 8 to 13 were too high for any
DX'ing stuff. UHF barely even existed back then unless you got a
converter box, which I did not.

The TVDX was during the summer, late afternoon, on the low VHF and
lasted 20 minutes up to 90 minutes - I got to see a full movie out of
Edmonton. On other occasions I would get a long, slow flutter that I
convinced myself was from a freight train tracking along the distant
skyline. Even though the antenna was pointed towards Denver, the
Canadian cities were not particularly at the peak of the lobe.

At one time, I lived within a mile of the blast doors of NORAD in
Cheyenne Mountain. Back then they kept a free fire zone in front of
it - what with the Red Scare and all. Now the slopes are littered
with suburb ranch style homes. I guess many of those occupants are
not Heinlein fans of his "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress." My chemistry
teacher used to cheer us up by saying the Ruskies would probably send
enough missiles to turn Colorado Springs into a plain of glass if
things got bad.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Roy Lewallen wrote:
Bill wrote:
Richard Clark wrote:

Hi All,

With a small TV antenna from Sears (like Sal, back in the mid 60s), up
5 feet above the roof (split level), on the crest of a hill (6200 feet
in Colorado Springs), I was able to DX Calgary and Edmonton.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

In California we would call that hill a mountain. . .

Depending on where you are in Colorado Springs, you could be at 6200
feet without being on a hill at all, and it probably wasn't any more
than 200 feet high since the lowest point in town is more than 6000 feet
above sea level. The propagation wouldn't be any better than on top of
that size hill anywhere else. Here in Oregon, a 200 footer is barely a
"hill", and certainly not a "mountain".

The weather forecasters seem to call anything over 2,500 feet (In the
mountains) so don't blame me. They are still hills and I have hiked
mount Hood so I know what a real mountain is.

So if 200 feet is a "mountain" in California, what do you call Whitney
and Shasta, and the Sierra?

Roy Lewallen, W7EL
-- who used to live in a valley at 5200 feet above sea level. . .
Those I call mountains, too.
Bill Baka

Richard Clark wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 00:02:24 -0700, Bill wrote:

With a small TV antenna from Sears (like Sal, back in the mid 60s), up
5 feet above the roof (split level), on the crest of a hill (6200 feet
in Colorado Springs), I was able to DX Calgary and Edmonton.
In California we would call that hill a mountain.

Hi Bill,

No, in Colorado, mountains don't really begin before 8-9,000 feet
(with 100 peaks above 10,000 feet). Last year I was driving through
passes at 11,000 feet.

I went through the Eisenhower tunnel but drove to the top at 11,000
something feet and had a blast running around and not getting out of
breath. No smoking has definite pluses.

6200 feet in the Springs is basically out on the prairie on a slight
rise. The antenna thus was only 20 odd feet above average ground, and
that average ground was a slight hill of 300 - 400 feet. I had a
clear view of the front range and Denver's TV antennas were on that 60
to 80 miles north-north-west - probably just line of sight through the
Black Forest given the marginal signal. Denver, the Mile High City,
actually sits in a bowl. The generally lowest point in Colorado (if I
am not mistaken) is out on the SE corner at about 3500 feet where it
is definitely in the great plains (as you would have been for hours
driving to get there).

I know this but thought the DX'ing would be great to the East but not to
the West.

DX'ing here is only
north and south since I am in the central valley north of Sacramento,
but I did sometimes get Reno, Nevada. It only worked up to channel 5 and
then 6 and 7 were somewhere higher, then 8 to 13 were too high for any
DX'ing stuff. UHF barely even existed back then unless you got a
converter box, which I did not.

The TVDX was during the summer, late afternoon, on the low VHF and
lasted 20 minutes up to 90 minutes - I got to see a full movie out of
Edmonton. On other occasions I would get a long, slow flutter that I
convinced myself was from a freight train tracking along the distant
skyline. Even though the antenna was pointed towards Denver, the
Canadian cities were not particularly at the peak of the lobe.

At one time, I lived within a mile of the blast doors of NORAD in
Cheyenne Mountain. Back then they kept a free fire zone in front of
it - what with the Red Scare and all. Now the slopes are littered
with suburb ranch style homes. I guess many of those occupants are
not Heinlein fans of his "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress."

I have read most of Heinlein. My favorite was "Stranger in a Strange Land.".

My chemistry
teacher used to cheer us up by saying the Ruskies would probably send
enough missiles to turn Colorado Springs into a plain of glass if
things got bad.

Technically it could be done but an H bomb and not a bunch of fission
types would do it much better.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Cheers,
Bill Baka

Bill wrote:
Roy Lewallen wrote:

So if 200 feet is a "mountain" in California, what do you call Whitney
and Shasta, and the Sierra?

Roy Lewallen, W7EL
-- who used to live in a valley at 5200 feet above sea level. . .
Those I call mountains, too.
Bill Baka


In the antenna context, I think one needs to consider HAAT when making
the hill/mountain determination.

I would consider Mt. Wilson (about 5000 ft above Los Angeles) a
legitimate mountain.

Is a hump at 13500 above a valley at 13200 a mountain, or a local hill?

Jim Lux wrote:
Bill wrote:
Roy Lewallen wrote:

So if 200 feet is a "mountain" in California, what do you call
Whitney and Shasta, and the Sierra?

Roy Lewallen, W7EL
-- who used to live in a valley at 5200 feet above sea level. . .
Those I call mountains, too.
Bill Baka


In the antenna context, I think one needs to consider HAAT when making
the hill/mountain determination.

I would consider Mt. Wilson (about 5000 ft above Los Angeles) a
legitimate mountain.

Is a hump at 13500 above a valley at 13200 a mountain, or a local hill?


Depends who you talk to. I thought California's definition of mountains
was ridiculous when my parents decided to move here. Maybe just the
highest hill in the bunch. Great place to put an antenna though.

Bill Baka

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 08:48:02 -0700, Jim Lux
wrote:

Is a hump at 13500 above a valley at 13200 a mountain, or a local hill?

It is a mountain. The valley (more probably a saddle at that
elevation for that shallow a depression) is a feature of the same
mountain.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC