Please pardon the slightly off-topic subject. I'm giving a class at
my grandson's school next month and I'm going to include ham radio,
with some of the kids presumably getting on the air. Of course, an
unlicensed person can operate if a properly licensed control operator
is present. Is there a source of more detailed information? I
keyword searched Part 97 and found no surprises. I think good sense
prevails.

But:
If I set up two HTs to talk simplex across a room, how do I/we ID?
KD6VKW/Alfa and KD6VKW/Bravo, maybe?
Can the kids call CQ?
Do they ID with my callsign or must I provide the ID in my own
voice?
Are there other sticking points?

In the absence of official guidance, your opinions are welcome.
Thanks.

"Sal"
(John, KD6VKW)

"Sal M. Onella" wrote in message
...
Please pardon the slightly off-topic subject. I'm giving a class at
my grandson's school next month and I'm going to include ham radio,
with some of the kids presumably getting on the air. Of course, an
unlicensed person can operate if a properly licensed control operator
is present. Is there a source of more detailed information? I
keyword searched Part 97 and found no surprises. I think good sense
prevails.

But:
If I set up two HTs to talk simplex across a room, how do I/we ID?
KD6VKW/Alfa and KD6VKW/Bravo, maybe?
Can the kids call CQ?
Do they ID with my callsign or must I provide the ID in my own
voice?
Are there other sticking points?

In the absence of official guidance, your opinions are welcome.
Thanks.

"Sal"
(John, KD6VKW)


Sal, the only kind of people that would like to talk to kids is exactly the
kind of people that you want to keep your little kids away from.

Why not go find a couple of el cheapo PRS handi-talkies (Personal Radio
Service - 450 plus MHz) and let the kiddies talk to each other that way? Why
bring ham radio into it at all?

The FCC rules are available to everyone for free at the FCC website.
www.fcc.gov.


Ed Cregger

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:23:44 -0800 (PST), "Sal M. Onella"
wrote:

Please pardon the slightly off-topic subject. I'm giving a class at
my grandson's school next month and I'm going to include ham radio,
with some of the kids presumably getting on the air. Of course, an
unlicensed person can operate if a properly licensed control operator
is present. Is there a source of more detailed information? I
keyword searched Part 97 and found no surprises. I think good sense
prevails.

But:
If I set up two HTs to talk simplex across a room, how do I/we ID?
KD6VKW/Alfa and KD6VKW/Bravo, maybe?
Can the kids call CQ?
Do they ID with my callsign or must I provide the ID in my own
voice?
Are there other sticking points?

In the absence of official guidance, your opinions are welcome.
Thanks.

"Sal"
(John, KD6VKW)


Don't ask too many questions.

Marconi would not have invented radio transmissions
according to FCC rules if he lived today.
We would still live without radio.

w.

On Dec 14, 1:23*am, "Sal M. Onella" wrote:
Please pardon the slightly off-topic subject. *I'm giving a class at
my grandson's school next month and I'm going to include ham radio,
with some of the kids presumably getting on the air. * Of course, an
unlicensed person can operate if a properly licensed control operator
is present. *Is there a source of more detailed information? *I
keyword searched Part 97 and found no surprises. *I think good sense
prevails.

But:
If I set up two HTs to talk simplex across a room, how do I/we ID?
KD6VKW/Alfa and KD6VKW/Bravo, maybe?
Can the kids call CQ?
Do they ID with my callsign or must I provide the ID in my own
voice?
Are there other sticking points?

In the absence of official guidance, your opinions are welcome.
Thanks.

"Sal"
(John, KD6VKW)

John
Yes you have to ID but not in your own voice. Yes the kids can call
CQ under your supervision. If you use the lowest power setting and an
unpopular simplex frequency for the unit to unit calls it is rather
unlikely that anyone except the kids and you will hear it. Check with
your club and find a woman operator to respond to the CQ. Smaller
children will respond better to a woman's voice.
--
Tom Horne

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:23:44 -0800 (PST), "Sal M. Onella"
wrote:

Please pardon the slightly off-topic subject. I'm giving a class at
my grandson's school next month and I'm going to include ham radio,
with some of the kids presumably getting on the air. Of course, an
unlicensed person can operate if a properly licensed control operator
is present. Is there a source of more detailed information? I
keyword searched Part 97 and found no surprises. I think good sense
prevails.

It's mixed in under the term "control operator". That's the licensed
operator in charge of the station by the station owner. Note that
much of the wording comes from the days when there were seperate
station and operator licenses. The duties are scattered all over Part
97. For example:
http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/news/part97/b.html

But:
If I set up two HTs to talk simplex across a room, how do I/we ID?
KD6VKW/Alfa and KD6VKW/Bravo, maybe?

The same way you do during field day or any other multi-operator
station. Just the call sign of the station. If you want to get down
to details, see 97.119(c) which discusses "self assigned designators".
You could just use tactical call signs as in a typical emergency net,
but that would really be a stretch. As long as there's a licensed
operator in charge, and they ID every 10 minutes, you're fine.

Can the kids call CQ?

Yes. They can do anything that the control operator allows.

Do they ID with my callsign or must I provide the ID in my own
voice?

They can ID on your behalf because it's a station license, not an
operator license.

Are there other sticking points?

Yes. You'll bore the kids to death with such minutae and trivia.

In the absence of official guidance, your opinions are welcome.

One of the harzards of being a licensed radio operator is that it
instantly tansforms one into a legal expert. If the rules were
obvious and simple, we wouldn't need devine, official, or amateur
guidance, but that's another rant.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Yes. You'll bore the kids to death with such minutae and trivia.

Show them the Jay leno morse code versus texting clip.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
New word I coined 12/13/09, "Sub-Wikipedia" adj, describing knowledge or
understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the
situation. i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in
the Wikipedia

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:24:03 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Yes. You'll bore the kids to death with such minutae and trivia.

Show them the Jay leno morse code versus texting clip.
Geoff.

The most effective song and dance I did in front of a Jr High Skool
class was tearing apart various cell phones, walkie talkies,
computahs, and consumer electronics to demonstrate that they should
not be afraid of such things. Unfortunately, the parents hated my
guts when the kids starting practicing what I showed them. Learn by
Destroying(tm).

2nd best was dragging in my collection of old cell phones including an
IMTS control head, various bag phones, and an unbelievable brick like
handset that's VERY heavy. I also brought an early Motorola tube type
Breaky-Backy with wet cells inside. Some of the stuff still works.

Nobody was interested in Morse Code until I mentioned that it could be
used for "secret communications". That means that the parents and
teachers couldn't understand what the kids were saying. Lots of
interest (and potential problems) there.

The problem with todays version of ham radio is that it's really
boring. Nobody wants to talk to someone around the world, when they
can pickup a POTS or cell phone and do it with much less effort and
expense. With the demise of Heathkit, building radios is no longer a
draw. The magic of radio is gone. So, show them what they can do
with radio. Weather stations, APRS, satellite, construction, etc are
a good start.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
The problem with todays version of ham radio is that it's really
boring. Nobody wants to talk to someone around the world, when they
can pickup a POTS or cell phone and do it with much less effort and
expense. With the demise of Heathkit, building radios is no longer a
draw. The magic of radio is gone. So, show them what they can do
with radio. Weather stations, APRS, satellite, construction, etc are
a good start.


The magic hasn't gone - it's just been refined. The numbers of
enthusiasts may drop, but those left will be more focussed and
dedicated. The quantity is being replaced by quality. For every ten new
hams who buy an off-the-shelf radio, play with it for a year or two,
then lose interest, there is one in whom the spark is truly lit.
Building is alive and well in the form of QRP. The satisfaction of
operating a TX which is the product of your own efforts and ideas beats
driving a commercial radio any day.

(There is a mirror to all this in the model aircraft hobby. Many now
begin by buying a top-dollar almost-ready-to-fly radio controlled plane.
All you need is money. Little achievement, little reward, other than
the transient buzz of flying the thing. Same effect - 90 percent drop
out, ten percent go on to greater things: building and designing their
own creations).

Don't believe the prophets of doom who tell us that ham radio is dead.
They're just pessimists and losers. Ignore them and move on.

Gaius wrote:
The magic hasn't gone - it's just been refined. The numbers of
enthusiasts may drop, but those left will be more focussed and
dedicated. The quantity is being replaced by quality. For every ten new
hams who buy an off-the-shelf radio, play with it for a year or two,
then lose interest, there is one in whom the spark is truly lit.
Building is alive and well in the form of QRP. The satisfaction of
operating a TX which is the product of your own efforts and ideas beats
driving a commercial radio any day.

(There is a mirror to all this in the model aircraft hobby. Many now
begin by buying a top-dollar almost-ready-to-fly radio controlled plane.
All you need is money. Little achievement, little reward, other than
the transient buzz of flying the thing. Same effect - 90 percent drop
out, ten percent go on to greater things: building and designing their
own creations).

Don't believe the prophets of doom who tell us that ham radio is dead.
They're just pessimists and losers. Ignore them and move on.



Correct - The magic hasn't gone. Take 10GHz. A 10 GHz SSB setup can do
well over 200 miles with only 2 watts with an old DSS dish. You can
call CQ in a 10G contest off of a local 30 story building, or even
better - a local rain cloud. The systems are normally built as
transverters from kits. And learning is involved in construction as you
figure out how to interface a 2m SSB rig to a transverter, and where you
find mini hardline, and SMA relays for cheap. Using them teaches the
user a lot about practical microwave propagation.

Interested persons from the Midwest or those from anywhere else check
out www.nlrs.org. We are one of the most active microwave groups in the US.

tom
K0TAR

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:23:44 -0800 (PST), "Sal M. Onella"
, in an obviously impaired state, wrote:

Please pardon the slightly off-topic subject. I'm giving a class at
my grandson's school next month and I'm going to include ham radio,
with some of the kids presumably getting on the air. Of course, an
unlicensed person can operate if a properly licensed control operator
is present. Is there a source of more detailed information? I
keyword searched Part 97 and found no surprises. I think good sense
prevails.

But:
If I set up two HTs to talk simplex across a room, how do I/we ID?
KD6VKW/Alfa and KD6VKW/Bravo, maybe?
Can the kids call CQ?
Do they ID with my callsign or must I provide the ID in my own
voice?

Seems to me that "KD6VKW Portable 1" and and "KD6VKW Portable 2"
would be appropriate. The addition of arbitrary letters and or
numbers after your call sign could be misconstrued as meaning
something other than what you intend. The use of Portable 1, Portable
2, etc., is more straightforward and accurately describes the type of
conversation in progress.
--

Raymond Sirois - KU2S
http://www.hamxam.org
10-10 #70270