"K1TTT" wrote
...
On Jul 23, 8:48 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
"Jim Lux"
...



IIRC the purpose is to primarily drain off the static charges so the
gnd-cloud potential difference is minimized. A direct strike will
usually
just melt whole house wiring, etc. etc.

Not true.

The cloud has SO MUCH charge you don't stand a chance of bleeding it
off.

Each cloud has a charge and the all is flowing to the ground. But only
20%
as the direct stroke.

The rule is simple. A mast with the polished ball on the tip attract the
direct stroke (polished ball do not dissipate).
A mast with many sharp spikes dissipate the static charge and eliminate
the
direct strike.

wrong, sharp spikes are designed to start an upward streamer that
connects the downward leader to the lightning rod. that is why they
have a sharp point, to reach the breakdown field gradient before
anything else around them.

But before the steamer is the dissipating: " IIRC the purpose is to
primarily drain off the static charges so the
gnd-cloud potential difference is minimized"

Direct strikes are typically around 20 kA, and can be as high as 100kA.
Both can be adequately carried by the usual AWG6 wire, because the
current
pulse only lasts a few microseconds.

It is the oscillating current which has a canal in the air. It is not
obliged to flow only in the wire.
S*

normally they don't oscillate, it is a mono-polarity pulse.

Normally in ALL sparks current oscillates: " The storm detector is a radio
receiver .
"The device was invented in 1894 by Alexander Stepanovich Popov. It also was
the first radio receiver in the world.
Ground-based and mobile detectors calculate the direction and severity of
lightning from the current location using radio direction-finding techniques
together with an analysis of the characteristic frequencies emitted by
lightning"

S*

"tom" wrote
t...
On 7/23/2010 4:23 PM, Jim Lux wrote:

If the ball is wet, especially with distinct droplets, then you can get
corona forming much earlier. The electrostatic forces tend to make the
droplets fly off.


Non-rhetorical question(s).

I must be missing something then. Why don't I see corona on the tips of
leaves at the tops of my trees? Trees are pretty conductive when hundreds
of kilovolts are involved.

You have missed that: "Physically, St. Elmo's fire is a bright blue or
violet glow, appearing like fire in some circumstances, from tall, sharply
pointed structures such as lightning rods, masts, spires and chimneys, and
on aircraft wings. St. Elmo's fire can also appear on leaves, grass, and
even at the tips of cattle horns.[3] Often accompanying the glow is a
distinct hissing or buzzing sound."

Or my antenna masts for that matter, 'cause they are grounded, too.

Your ground wire is broken. Check it.
S*

wrote
...
On Jul 23, 3:48 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:


The rule is simple. A mast with the polished ball on the tip attract the
direct stroke (polished ball do not dissipate).
A mast with many sharp spikes dissipate the static charge and eliminate
the
direct strike.

A mast with a ball is less likely to attract a strike. That is why
they are
used on flag poles, etc.. They don't stream near as well as a sharp
point. They can still be struck though if nothing more attractive
is around as far as streamers.
A pointed mast streams much easier and will be much more
effective as a lightning rod.
A mast with a lot of spikes is wishful thinking. You can not bleed
off the charge fast enough to eliminate strikes. It's like whizzing
in a whirlwind.

For Franklin it was obvious: "This grew into his idea for the lightning rod.
Franklin described an iron rod about 8 or 10 feet long that was sharpened to
a point at the end. He wrote, "the electrical fire would, I think, be drawn
out of a cloud silently, before it could come near enough to strike..."
From: http://www.fi.edu/pieces/hongell/

You can not eliminate a direct strike by bleeding off the charge.
You can only offer it a better and easier streaming target than
whatever you do not want struck. And the sharper and more
pointy an object, the better it streams. When is the last time
you saw a lightning rod with a polished ball on top?
They don't sell them, as they would be fairly useless.

But somebody want to catch strong lightnings:
"Blunt-tipped lightning rods are intended to intercept rather than to
prevent lightning strikes. They are intentionally located at the point of
maximum dielectric stress. (See Figure 2). " From:
http://www.nottltd.com/article.html
S*

On Jul 24, 7:35*am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
*"K1TTT" ...
On Jul 23, 8:48 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:



"Jim Lux"
...

IIRC the purpose is to primarily drain off the static charges so the
gnd-cloud potential difference is minimized. A direct strike will
usually
just melt whole house wiring, etc. etc.

Not true.

The cloud has SO MUCH charge you don't stand a chance of bleeding it
off.

Each cloud has a charge and the all is flowing to the ground. But only
20%
as the direct stroke.

The rule is simple. A mast with the polished ball on the tip attract the
direct stroke (polished ball do not dissipate).
A mast with many sharp spikes dissipate the static charge and eliminate
the
direct strike.
wrong, sharp spikes are designed to start an upward streamer that

connects the downward leader to the lightning rod. *that is why they
have a sharp point, to reach the breakdown field gradient before
anything else around them.

But before the steamer is the dissipating: " IIRC the purpose is to
primarily drain off the static charges so the

gnd-cloud potential difference is minimized"

Direct strikes are typically around 20 kA, and can be as high as 100kA.
Both can be adequately carried by the usual AWG6 wire, because the
current
pulse only lasts a few microseconds.

It is the oscillating current which has a canal in the air. It is not
obliged to flow only in the wire.
S*
normally they don't oscillate, it is a mono-polarity pulse.

Normally in ALL sparks current oscillates: " The storm detector is a radio
receiver .
"The device was invented in 1894 by Alexander Stepanovich Popov. It also was
the first radio receiver in the world.
Ground-based and mobile detectors calculate the direction and severity of
lightning from the current location using radio direction-finding techniques
together with an analysis of the characteristic frequencies emitted by
lightning"

S*

you like quoting stuff off the web don't you... too bad you don't
understand the basic physics behind it. no, the spark current doesn't
have to oscillate to be picked up by a radio receiver. The short
pulse, yes even one that doesn't oscillate itself, is made up of a
large number of sine waves added together, it is those that can be
picked up by radio receivers. it is also possible at a large distance
to determine the polarity of the lightning stroke as they can be
either positive or negative strokes, that type of distinction wouldn't
be needed if they oscillated.

"K1TTT" wrote
...
On Jul 24, 7:35 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

Normally in ALL sparks current oscillates: " The storm detector is a
radio
receiver .
"The device was invented in 1894 by Alexander Stepanovich Popov. It also
was
the first radio receiver in the world.
Ground-based and mobile detectors calculate the direction and severity of
lightning from the current location using radio direction-finding
techniques
together with an analysis of the characteristic frequencies emitted by
lightning"


you like quoting stuff off the web don't you... too bad you don't
understand the basic physics behind it. no, the spark current doesn't
have to oscillate to be picked up by a radio receiver. The short
pulse, yes even one that doesn't oscillate itself, is made up of a
large number of sine waves added together, it is those that can be
picked up by radio receivers. it is also possible at a large distance
to determine the polarity of the lightning stroke as they can be
either positive or negative strokes, that type of distinction wouldn't
be needed if they oscillated.

Electrons like oscillate. The natural oscillations go up and next decay.
Each next jump is stronger at the beginning and weaker at the end.

Lightning jumps from the higher voltage area to the lower. It means that
netto electrons flow always from cloud to earth. But before such are many
lightnings cloud to cloud. Sometimes (5%) are cloud-earth-cloud.

In the all cases the current oscillate.
S*

On 7/24/2010 2:43 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:

You have missed that: "Physically, St. Elmo's fire is a bright blue or
violet glow, appearing like fire in some circumstances, from tall, sharply
pointed structures such as lightning rods, masts, spires and chimneys, and
on aircraft wings. St. Elmo's fire can also appear on leaves, grass, and
even at the tips of cattle horns.[3] Often accompanying the glow is a
distinct hissing or buzzing sound."

Wow, you can type "google"!


Or my antenna masts for that matter, 'cause they are grounded, too.

Your ground wire is broken. Check it.

Your brain is broken, check it.

S*

On Jul 24, 4:30*pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
*"K1TTT" ...
On Jul 24, 7:35 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:



Normally in ALL sparks current oscillates: " The storm detector is a
radio
receiver .
"The device was invented in 1894 by Alexander Stepanovich Popov. It also
was
the first radio receiver in the world.
Ground-based and mobile detectors calculate the direction and severity of
lightning from the current location using radio direction-finding
techniques
together with an analysis of the characteristic frequencies emitted by
lightning"

you like quoting stuff off the web don't you... too bad you don't

understand the basic physics behind it. *no, the spark current doesn't
have to oscillate to be picked up by a radio receiver. *The short
pulse, yes even one that doesn't oscillate itself, is made up of a
large number of sine waves added together, it is those that can be
picked up by radio receivers. *it is also possible at a large distance
to determine the polarity of the lightning stroke as they can be
either positive or negative strokes, that type of distinction wouldn't
be needed if they oscillated.

Electrons like oscillate. The natural oscillations go up *and next decay.
Each next jump is stronger at the beginning and weaker at the end.

Lightning jumps from the higher voltage area to the lower. It means that
netto electrons flow always from cloud to earth. But before such are many
lightnings cloud to cloud. Sometimes (5%) are cloud-earth-cloud.

In the all cases the current oscillate.
S*

i agree with tom, your brain is broken.. check it.

"K1TTT" wrote
...
On Jul 24, 4:30 pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

In the all cases the current oscillate.
S*

i agree with tom, your brain is broken.. check it.

Yes. I mix the oscillating with pulsating: "Years later, Lodge realized that
lightning is not an oscillatory discharge but is actually a rapidly
pulsating unidirectional (dc) discharge.[2] However, the effects of the
inductive reactance on the flow of these pulsating lightning currents is the
same as Lodge predicted for oscillatory currents" From:
http://www.antiquewireless.org/otb/lodge1102.htm
S*

"tom" wrote
. net...
On 7/24/2010 2:43 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:

Your ground wire is broken. Check it.

Your brain is broken, check it.

Have you ever seen the glow: "In addition, the scientist was able to
demonstrate that standing waves existed along the wires. In a darkened room,
he observed a visible glow along the wires at one-half wavelength intervals
corresponding to the voltage peaks. He also performed a number of other
experiments concerning the characteristics of discharging Leyden jars during
that spring and summer of 1888."
From: http://www.antiquewireless.org/otb/lodge1102.htm
S*

On Jul 25, 5:08*pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
*"K1TTT" ...
On Jul 24, 4:30 pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:



In the all cases the current oscillate.
S*
i agree with tom, your brain is broken.. check it.

Yes. I mix the oscillating with pulsating: "Years later, Lodge realized that
lightning is not an oscillatory discharge but is actually a rapidly
pulsating unidirectional (dc) discharge.[2] However, the effects of the
inductive reactance on the flow of these pulsating lightning currents is the
same as Lodge predicted for oscillatory currents" From:http://www.antiquewireless.org/otb/lodge1102.htm
S*

and i suppose you have a coherer in your receiver also?