I want to use an NMO whip for 460 UHF band. I know a 1/4 wave would be about 5.8 inches. can I cut it to be a 1/2 wave or 5/8s wave? if so what would the correct length be? this is a straight whip, no coil or spring. Thanks!

On Aug 7, 12:40*pm, Robert Keeler Robert.Keeler.
wrote:
I want to use an NMO whip for 460 UHF band. I know a 1/4 wave would be
about 5.8 inches. can I cut it to be a 1/2 wave or 5/8s wave? if so what
would the correct length be? this is a straight whip, no coil or spring.
Thanks!

--
Robert Keeler

Neither will work properly without matching. Without using a matching
device, you are limited to 1/4 wave, or 3/4 wave. And 3/4 wave is not
desirable as you start seeing higher angle lobes past .64 wave in
length. "5/8 wave"
If you have an NMO mount, and want to use a 5/8 wave, you need
one of the NMO mount 5/8 whips with the loading coil at the base.
A 1/2 wave will be high z, and require a matching device.
Without the proper matching, you are best off running the 1/4
wave whip.

In message
,
writes
On Aug 7, 12:40*pm, Robert Keeler Robert.Keeler.
wrote:
I want to use an NMO whip for 460 UHF band. I know a 1/4 wave would be
about 5.8 inches. can I cut it to be a 1/2 wave or 5/8s wave? if so what
would the correct length be? this is a straight whip, no coil or spring.
Thanks!

--
Robert Keeler

Neither will work properly without matching. Without using a matching
device, you are limited to 1/4 wave, or 3/4 wave. And 3/4 wave is not
desirable as you start seeing higher angle lobes past .64 wave in
length. "5/8 wave"
If you have an NMO mount, and want to use a 5/8 wave, you need
one of the NMO mount 5/8 whips with the loading coil at the base.
A 1/2 wave will be high z, and require a matching device.
Without the proper matching, you are best off running the 1/4
wave whip.

A 5/8 wave gives you the highest gain at low angles (which is what you
want). The length of the antenna is a '1/2 wave and a bit more'. The
loading coil at the base is essentially the rest of the length required
to make it electrically look like a 3/4 wave, so that it will have a low
input impedance, and be a good match.

Over a perfect ground plane, the 1/4 wave will have an impedance of
around 37.5 ohms, and the 5/8 wave around 50 ohms, so the 5/8 is
potentially a better match for 50 ohm coax. Also, the part of the
antenna which does most of the radiating (1/4 wave from the tip) will be
some 6" higher in the sky and, at 460MHz, if the antenna is mounted low
down, every inch of height above the ground counts! Despite this, in
many situations, you may not find much practical difference between a
1/4 and 5/8 wave.
--
Ian

On 8/8/2010 1:17 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:
. . .
Over a perfect ground plane, the 1/4 wave will have an impedance of
around 37.5 ohms, and the 5/8 wave around 50 ohms, so the 5/8 is
potentially a better match for 50 ohm coax. Also, the part of the
antenna which does most of the radiating (1/4 wave from the tip) will be
some 6" higher in the sky and, at 460MHz, if the antenna is mounted low
down, every inch of height above the ground counts! Despite this, in
many situations, you may not find much practical difference between a
1/4 and 5/8 wave.

I found only one practical difference. A 5/8 wave mag mount came undone
on the freeway. I've never had a 1/4 wave come off.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

In message , Roy Lewallen
writes
On 8/8/2010 1:17 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:
. . .
Over a perfect ground plane, the 1/4 wave will have an impedance of
around 37.5 ohms, and the 5/8 wave around 50 ohms, so the 5/8 is
potentially a better match for 50 ohm coax. Also, the part of the
antenna which does most of the radiating (1/4 wave from the tip) will be
some 6" higher in the sky and, at 460MHz, if the antenna is mounted low
down, every inch of height above the ground counts! Despite this, in
many situations, you may not find much practical difference between a
1/4 and 5/8 wave.

I found only one practical difference. A 5/8 wave mag mount came undone
on the freeway. I've never had a 1/4 wave come off.

Your magmount obviously wasn't big enough. Was it one of those piddling
2" dia jobs? I've got a 6" limpet, and, with a 146Mhz 5/8 with the 3
turn 'spring' loading coil, there's no was that is going to come off at
any speed (regardless of headwind). Obviously, if the antenna is rigid,
there is more chance of levering it off.
--
Ian

On Aug 8, 3:17*am, Ian Jackson
wrote:
In message
,
writes

On Aug 7, 12:40*pm, Robert Keeler Robert.Keeler.
wrote:
I want to use an NMO whip for 460 UHF band. I know a 1/4 wave would be
about 5.8 inches. can I cut it to be a 1/2 wave or 5/8s wave? if so what
would the correct length be? this is a straight whip, no coil or spring.
Thanks!

--
Robert Keeler

Neither will work properly without matching. Without using a matching
device, you are limited to 1/4 wave, or 3/4 wave. And 3/4 wave is not
desirable as you start seeing higher angle lobes past .64 wave in
length. "5/8 wave"
If you have an NMO mount, and want to use a 5/8 wave, you need
one of the NMO mount 5/8 whips with the loading coil at the base.
A 1/2 wave will be high z, and require a matching device.
Without the proper matching, you are best off running the 1/4
wave whip.

A 5/8 wave gives you the highest gain at low angles (which is what you
want). The length of the antenna is a '1/2 wave and a bit more'. The
loading coil at the base is essentially the rest of the length required
to make it electrically look like a 3/4 wave, so that it will have a low
input impedance, and be a good match.

Over a perfect ground plane, the 1/4 wave will have an impedance of
around 37.5 ohms, and the 5/8 wave around 50 ohms, so the 5/8 is
potentially a better match for 50 ohm coax. Also, the part of the
antenna which does most of the radiating (1/4 wave from the tip) will be
some 6" higher in the sky and, at 460MHz, if the antenna is mounted low
down, every inch of height above the ground counts! Despite this, in
many situations, you may not find much practical difference between a
1/4 and 5/8 wave.
--
Ian

I realize all that, but he has no coil. Or at least he implied he
didn't.
He was inquiring about using a 1/2 or 5/8 whip with no matching
device,
which I don't think is too good an idea. Or at least he said no
coil or springs in his post, so I assume no matching.
If he wants to run a 5/8 wave whip he will need to buy the coil
that fits the NMO mount.
The 5/8 won't be potentially a better match for 50 ohm coax
without the coil to tune to 3/4 wave.
I got the impression he wants to cut a longer whip and just
stick it on the mount with no matching at all. Which was
why I said 1/4 wave and 3/4 wave would be his only options
and still have a decent match. And I don't recommend a 3/4
wave whip.
I've almost always seen an improvement using a 5/8 vs a 1/4 wave
on 2 meters. A bit better range, and usually less picket fencing.
I would expect the same on UHF in most cases.
But if he wants to run a 5/8 whip, he is going to need the coil
to go with it.