Uzytkownik "Richard Clark" napisal w wiadomosci
...
wrote:
To be polarized must be the two poles (nodes)

The tip of a monopole and its base are its two nodes. A monopole is
polarized.

This is a very simple lesson to learn.

but, but, but, the base is a voltage minimum, not the opposite peak
voltage of the top!!! how can that form two nodes to make the
electrons jump opposite directions? this just can't be true! this
must only be half polarity polarisation.

What? Is this Oliver Twist in reverse polish notation?

"Please, sir, can I have another node?"

Yes, you have fully anticipated an objection in its juvenile form.
This can be countered (after asking for a hand to be held out for
switching):
Pick any potential reference point along the
length of the quarter wave monopole;
every point above it will have the opposite polarity
of any point below it - ergo, two nodes are described
each on either side of the reference.

Such situation is also close to the base. But there no voltage. No voltage
no field emission. On the quarter wave monopole is only one place with very,
very high voltage. The dipole has the two.

I hope I don't have to explain that using batteries and resistors (it
may present a challenge in introducing advanced electronic concepts).

The "shape" of the node effects the emission. Thin wire radiate in different
direction than a hat .
But in the elongated node every point have the same polarity.

Faraday is great.
S*

On Feb 12, 8:55*am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
Uzytkownik "K1TTT" napisal w ...
On Feb 11, 8:04 pm, Richard Clark wrote:

On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 09:33:34 +0100, "Szczepan Bialek"

wrote:
To be polarized must be the two poles (nodes)

The tip of a monopole and its base are its two nodes. A monopole is
polarized.

This is a very simple lesson to learn.
but, but, but, the base is a voltage minimum, not the opposite peak

voltage of the top!!! *how can that form two nodes to make the
electrons jump opposite directions? *this just can't be true! *this
must only be half polarity polarisation.

Half polarity = no polarity.

The field emission take place where the voltage exists. But at the end the
voltage is doubled (standing wave). So the strong radiation is only from the
nodes.
S*

so if there is only a single high voltage point at the top how is it
vertically polarized and how does it radiate at all without the other
half of the dipole?

On Feb 12, 9:15*am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
Uzytkownik "Richard Clark" napisal w wiadomoscinews:n2pbl6h129opr3fres80nm3h8bt4e691vf@ 4ax.com...



wrote:
To be polarized must be the two poles (nodes)

The tip of a monopole and its base are its two nodes. A monopole is
polarized.

This is a very simple lesson to learn.

but, but, but, the base is a voltage minimum, not the opposite peak
voltage of the top!!! *how can that form two nodes to make the
electrons jump opposite directions? *this just can't be true! *this
must only be half polarity polarisation.

What? *Is this Oliver Twist in reverse polish notation?

"Please, sir, can I have another node?"

Yes, you have fully anticipated an objection in its juvenile form.
This can be countered (after asking for a hand to be held out for
switching):
Pick any potential reference point along the
length of the quarter wave monopole;
every point above it will have the opposite polarity
of any point below it - ergo, two nodes are described
each on either side of the reference.

Such situation is also close to the base. *But there no voltage. No voltage
no field emission. On the quarter wave monopole is only one place with very,
very high voltage. The dipole has the two.



I hope I don't have to explain that using batteries and resistors (it
may present a challenge in introducing advanced electronic concepts).

The "shape" of the node effects the emission. Thin wire radiate in different
direction than a hat .
But in the elongated node every point have the same polarity.

Faraday is great.
S*

but on the other half of the sine wave the polarity is reversed...
then what happens? do the electrons get sucked back in?

Uzytkownik "K1TTT" napisal w wiadomosci
...
On Feb 12, 9:15 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

The "shape" of the node effects the emission. Thin wire radiate in
different
direction than a hat .
But in the elongated node every point have the same polarity.


but on the other half of the sine wave the polarity is reversed...
then what happens? do the electrons get sucked back in?

Of course. But the longitudine waves transport mass (electrons) and are not
symmetric. Jumping off is stronger than sucking back.
Tesla discovered the catode rays (electrons) jumping off from the antenna
end. It is the net DC ground current. Why you do not to measure it.
It is known how to collect the catode rays.
S*

"K1TTT" napisal w wiadomosci
...
On Feb 12, 8:55 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

The field emission take place where the voltage exists. But at the end
the
voltage is doubled (standing wave). So the strong radiation is only from
the
nodes.
S*

so if there is only a single high voltage point at the top how is it
vertically polarized and how does it radiate at all without the other
half of the dipole?

You probably have seen the CB radio. On the end of the whip is alternate
high voltage. It radiate the longitudinal electric waves. The other half of
a dipole is chassis (car). Is there any polarisation?
S*

On Feb 12, 6:06*pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
Uzytkownik "K1TTT" napisal w ...
On Feb 12, 9:15 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:



The "shape" of the node effects the emission. Thin wire radiate in
different
direction than a hat .
But in the elongated node every point have the same polarity.

but on the other half of the sine wave the polarity is reversed...

then what happens? *do the electrons get sucked back in?

Of course. But the longitudine waves transport mass (electrons) and are not
symmetric. Jumping off is stronger than sucking *back.
Tesla discovered the catode rays (electrons) jumping off from the antenna
end. It is the net DC ground current. Why you do not to measure it.
It is known how to collect the catode rays.
S*

i have tried, there is no dc ground current.

On 2/12/2011 12:06 PM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:

Of course. But the longitudine waves transport mass (electrons) and are not
symmetric. Jumping off is stronger than sucking back.

Tesla is not applicable here, an antenna is not a cathode and does not
act like one. Neither is it made of a material that is cathodic at room
temperature.

So where else does it say the current is asymmetrical?

tom
K0TAR

On 2/12/2011 12:23 PM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
napisal w wiadomosci
...
On Feb 12, 8:55 am, "Szczepan wrote:

The field emission take place where the voltage exists. But at the end
the
voltage is doubled (standing wave). So the strong radiation is only from
the
nodes.
S*

so if there is only a single high voltage point at the top how is it
vertically polarized and how does it radiate at all without the other
half of the dipole?

You probably have seen the CB radio. On the end of the whip is alternate
high voltage. It radiate the longitudinal electric waves. The other half of
a dipole is chassis (car). Is there any polarisation?
S*



There sure is. It is typical to see 20dB or so loss when you rotate a
dipole receiving from a vertical ground plane CB antenna from vertical
to horizontal.

From a car it may not be truly vertical because of the body, but it is
still easy to detect.

tom
K0TAR

Uzytkownik "tom" napisal w wiadomosci
. net...
On 2/12/2011 12:06 PM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:

Of course. But the longitudine waves transport mass (electrons) and are
not
symmetric. Jumping off is stronger than sucking back.

Tesla is not applicable here, an antenna is not a cathode and does not act
like one. Neither is it made of a material that is cathodic at room
temperature.

Field emission works at each temperature and each material. It is voltage
and temperature dependent. Also: "How would the ideal field emitter look
like? It should be very long and very thin, made of conductive material with
high mechanical strength, be robust, and cheap and easy to process."

So where else does it say the current is asymmetrical?

The emission current from AC lines is. But there the electrons flow to
ground. In the lines no open circuit.
In open circuit the voltage is doubled (at least) at the end. If some
electrons jump off than the suction voltage is lower. If an antenna radiate
the VSWR is low = some electrons do not come back.

In the giant Warsaw dipole was: "In the lower half of the mast, there was a
vertical steel tube, attached to the mast's outer structure with large
insulators. This tube was grounded at the bottom, and connected electrically
to the mast structure at half the total height. This technique works by
applying a DC ground at a point of minimum radiofrequency voltage,
conducting static charge to ground without diminishing the radio energy.
Static electrical charge can build up to high values, even at times of no
thunderstorm activity, when such tall structures are insulated from ground.

Guess why the static charge is build up?

S*

Uzytkownik "tom" napisal w wiadomosci
et...
On 2/12/2011 12:23 PM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
napisal w wiadomosci
...
On Feb 12, 8:55 am, "Szczepan wrote:

The field emission take place where the voltage exists. But at the end
the
voltage is doubled (standing wave). So the strong radiation is only from
the
nodes.
S*

so if there is only a single high voltage point at the top how is it
vertically polarized and how does it radiate at all without the other
half of the dipole?

You probably have seen the CB radio. On the end of the whip is alternate
high voltage. It radiate the longitudinal electric waves. The other half
of
a dipole is chassis (car). Is there any polarisation?
S*



There sure is. It is typical to see 20dB or so loss when you rotate a
dipole receiving from a vertical ground plane CB antenna from vertical to
horizontal.

The transmmiting "cold catode" is thin and long. It radiate the alternate
electric field perpendicular to its length. Receiving antenna also have the
best direction to collect electrons.

From a car it may not be truly vertical because of the body, but it is
still easy to detect.

Polarisation is linear, circular, eleptical. Could you produce it by
rotation of monopole?
S*