How about a flagpole vertical. There have been many write ups about them. I
used to live in Las Vegas by Sam's Town & have seen a few installed & you
won't know its a Ham Ant. Google Flagpole Antenna. Don't forget to put the
flag up...Howard K0ACF
"Jay Scherberth" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Just getting back on the air after many years of silence and I find
myself struggling over the choice of antennas. I need something that I
can easily raise and lower (get out of site due to CCR rules) so we're
talking about a compromise. I do have room for a couple of radials
(max 30 ft) as long as they can buried in the ground 180 degrees apart
(not ideal). The antenna will have to be installed within about 4 feet
from the side of my house. I was hoping to find a self supporting
vertical betwwen 30 and 40 ft hight that could pivit at the base
(might need to purchase that separately) so it can be laid down flat
on the ground next to the house when not in use. I plan on purchasing
an auto tuner if necessary. The vertical can have no physical radials
on the antenna itself.

And by the way, I live in the hills above Henderson, NV so the quality
of the ground isn't good; lots of rock and hard clay with poor
drainage.

Purchase price up to $400.00 OK. Any ideas of what might work in my
situation?

Many thanks in advance!

On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 22:53:57 -0000, wrote:

I don't have any CCR problems but I do have a vertical antenna of
about 28 feet cobbled together and the SGC-237 does a great job with
it. The SGC-237 is pricey but I don't think it can be beat.

Several years ago I used 4 fifty foot extention cords on top of the
ground for radials and it did work. I experiment with antennas a lot,
so everything at my qth is always changing.

Perhaps you can glean a little inspiration from
http://dixienc.us/28FtVert/28FtVertical.htm

There are some nice light weight fiberglass whips on the market in the
$100 range. One of these days I will follow that path.


And by the way, I live in the hills above Henderson, NV so the quality
of the ground isn't good; lots of rock and hard clay with poor
drainage.

Purchase price up to $400.00 OK. Any ideas of what might work in my
situation?

Many thanks in advance!

Some thoughts on the subject...

If you are going to have an auto tuner, the antenna itself need not be
anything more than a piece of tubing.

I have a 34 ft piece of tubing with a SGC-237 and that tuned 160 (kind of
marginally) through 10 with no problem.

I added a relay controlled loading coil to switch in for 160/80 and now
it tunes 80 faster and 160 no problem.

If your main interest is the lower bands, just make the tubing as long as
you can get away with and let the auto tuner deal with it.

If it is next to the house, drive in as much ground rod as you can and use
a garden drip system along with some flowers or whatnot around the base of
it.

Whatever radials you can install are better than nothing.

On Jul 19, 10:29*pm, "Howard K0ACF" wrote:
How about a flagpole vertical. There have been many write ups about them. I
used to live in Las Vegas by Sam's Town & have seen a few installed & you
won't know its a Ham Ant. Google Flagpole Antenna. Don't forget to put the
flag up...Howard K0ACF"Jay Scherberth" wrote in message

...







Hi,

Just getting back on the air after many years of silence and I find
myself struggling over the choice of antennas. I need something that I
can easily raise and lower (get out of site due to CCR rules) so we're
talking about a compromise. I do have room for a couple of radials
(max 30 ft) as long as they can buried in the ground 180 degrees apart
(not ideal). The antenna will have to be installed within about 4 feet
from the side of my house. I was hoping to find a self supporting
vertical betwwen 30 and 40 ft hight that could pivit at the base
(might need to purchase that separately) so it can be laid down flat
on the ground next to the house when not in use. I plan on purchasing
an auto tuner if necessary. The vertical can have no physical radials
on the antenna itself.

And by the way, I live in the hills above Henderson, NV so the quality
of the ground isn't good; lots of rock and hard clay with poor
drainage.

Purchase price up to $400.00 OK. Any ideas of what might work in my
situation?

Many thanks in advance!

I'm actually checking with the HOA about this. Would be a perfect
solution in my case. Any suggestions about which works best?

Thanks!

Jay Scherberth wrote:
On Jul 19, 3:53Â*pm, wrote:
Jay Scherberth wrote:
Hi,

Just getting back on the air after many years of silence and I find
myself struggling over the choice of antennas. I need something that I
can easily raise and lower (get out of site due to CCR rules) so we're
talking about a compromise. I do have room for a couple of radials
(max 30 ft) as long as they can buried in the ground 180 degrees apart
(not ideal). The antenna will have to be installed within about 4 feet
from the side of my house. I was hoping to find a self supporting
vertical betwwen 30 and 40 ft hight that could pivit at the base
(might need to purchase that separately) so it can be laid down flat
on the ground next to the house when not in use. I plan on purchasing
an auto tuner if necessary. The vertical can have no physical radials
on the antenna itself.

And by the way, I live in the hills above Henderson, NV so the quality
of the ground isn't good; lots of rock and hard clay with poor
drainage.

Purchase price up to $400.00 OK. Any ideas of what might work in my
situation?

Many thanks in advance!

Some thoughts on the subject...

If you are going to have an auto tuner, the antenna itself need not be
anything more than a piece of tubing.

I have a 34 ft piece of tubing with a SGC-237 and that tuned 160 (kind of
marginally) through 10 with no problem.

I added a relay controlled loading coil to switch in for 160/80 and now
it tunes 80 faster and 160 no problem.

If your main interest is the lower bands, just make the tubing as long as
you can get away with and let the auto tuner deal with it.

If it is next to the house, drive in as much ground rod as you can and use
a garden drip system along with some flowers or whatnot around the base of
it.

Whatever radials you can install are better than nothing.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Jim - You've given me new hope! How significant is the length and
depth of the radials? I probably have about 30 feet each way along the
side of the house. Are you suggesting a drip system around the ground
rod to improve the quality of the ground or for decorative reasons or
both?


The depth is deep enough to cover them with dirt.

Since they are buried, the absolute length isn't particularly important, just
put in as many as you can as long as you can in whatever directions you can.

The optimum case would be if they were under a lawn that is watered, otherwise
you just do what you can do.

From my point of view the drip system improves the ground while the XYL may
have a different viewpoint.

In my case, there is a small copper plate at the base of the antenna that
interconnects the ground rod with all the radial wires and is the ground
point for the tuner.

There is an old picture at http://mail.specsol.com/~jimp/ant_base.jpg

This one doesn't fold, but it would be no big deal to make that way.

The upside down trash can covers the auto tuner.

The low band loading coil is 1/4 inch copper tubing I happened to have wound
on a PVC mount and form. The switching relay is inside the coil form at the
bottom.

The loading coil was trial and error adjusted for best SWR on 80 without
the tuner in the circuit.

The PVC pipe going into the ground has the antenna coax and control lines
for the relay and auto tuner in it.

The ratty looking braid from the ground rod going up into the trash can has
since been replaced with a #6 wire to the plate.



--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Jay Scherberth wrote:

The antenna would be about 4 feet away from the house. The house is 20
ft high at the peak of the roof (single story). The roof is concrete
tile. I've looked into suspending a wire from a telescopic pole but it
seems like it would be a little cumbersome to raise and lower. I've
looked at suspending a long wire between front and back yard trees but
that is a little more permanent and the HOA could bust me if they saw
it. This is why I'm thinking a vertical would be less visible, easier
to setup and take down, and has a fairly small wind load. I do favor
20 - 10 meter bands so that might be a prob elm for the design I'm
considering. I love the fact that cheap, small diameter pipe can work
as well as a commercial product. Thanks for that info!

If 20 meters and up is your primary interest, instead of a base fed
vertical make it a vertical dipole with the length based on 20 M.

This has the advantage of not having to have a RF ground.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 20:28:54 -0700 (PDT), Jay Scherberth
wrote:

Richard - Is there such a thing as a multi-band HF sleeve dipole or is
this more of a VHF/UHF solution?

Hi Jay,

It is multiband if your tuner can pull the SWR into reasonable limits.
However, you do NOT want the overall length of the antenna to exceed
roughly a 1.25 wavelengths of the highest frequency you intend to
multiband. This is for two reasons at that frequency:
1. Difficult to tune at 1 wavelength;
2. Radiation is directed up at a high angle if longer than 1.25 wl.

Please read Sal's perceptive comments about hi voltage exposure; and
observe his statement about choking the line.

Futher, and this complicates the simple rules above, your sleeve
dipole does not need to be made of equal length elements. This raises
the prospects of another topic:
Vertical, Off Center Fed Dipoles.

As for building ground radials - skip that wasted effort. You have
too little footprint available, and your ground isn't conductive
enough to present that much loss. This is why I suggested the sleeve
dipole.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...

snip

... your sleeve
dipole does not need to be made of equal length elements. This raises
the prospects of another topic:
Vertical, Off Center Fed Dipoles.

Yes.

Mine was mounted with the end of the bottom element within reach from the
ground. I lengthened just the bottom element experimentally with a simple
clip lead -- and that worked. Sometime "cheesy" works. :-)

"Sal"

On 7/19/2011 8:41 PM, Jay Scherberth wrote:
On Jul 19, 3:53 pm, wrote:
Jay wrote:
Hi,

Just getting back on the air after many years of silence and I find
myself struggling over the choice of antennas. I need something that I
can easily raise and lower (get out of site due to CCR rules) so we're
talking about a compromise. I do have room for a couple of radials
(max 30 ft) as long as they can buried in the ground 180 degrees apart
(not ideal). The antenna will have to be installed within about 4 feet
from the side of my house. I was hoping to find a self supporting
vertical betwwen 30 and 40 ft hight that could pivit at the base
(might need to purchase that separately) so it can be laid down flat
on the ground next to the house when not in use. I plan on purchasing
an auto tuner if necessary. The vertical can have no physical radials
on the antenna itself.

And by the way, I live in the hills above Henderson, NV so the quality
of the ground isn't good; lots of rock and hard clay with poor
drainage.

Purchase price up to $400.00 OK. Any ideas of what might work in my
situation?

Many thanks in advance!

Some thoughts on the subject...

If you are going to have an auto tuner, the antenna itself need not be
anything more than a piece of tubing.

I have a 34 ft piece of tubing with a SGC-237 and that tuned 160 (kind of
marginally) through 10 with no problem.

I added a relay controlled loading coil to switch in for 160/80 and now
it tunes 80 faster and 160 no problem.

If your main interest is the lower bands, just make the tubing as long as
you can get away with and let the auto tuner deal with it.

If it is next to the house, drive in as much ground rod as you can and use
a garden drip system along with some flowers or whatnot around the base of
it.

Whatever radials you can install are better than nothing.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Jim - You've given me new hope! How significant is the length and
depth of the radials? I probably have about 30 feet each way along the
side of the house. Are you suggesting a drip system around the ground
rod to improve the quality of the ground or for decorative reasons or
both?



If you've got a tuner, you don't care about the absolute length of
anything. That makes life much easier.
You put in what you can for grounding. more is better, but whatever
works.. drip irrigation is for conductivity.

If you can snuggle one of your radials up against your concrete footing,
that helps Concrete is a fairly decent conductor because it tends to
hold moisture and it has large contact area with the soil. If you're
pouring a slab for a patio, put some wires in it.

On 7/20/2011 7:20 AM, W8CCW wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 22:53:57 -0000, wrote:

I don't have any CCR problems but I do have a vertical antenna of
about 28 feet cobbled together and the SGC-237 does a great job with
it. The SGC-237 is pricey but I don't think it can be beat.

I favor the SG239... it's cheaper, and I can fabricate a weather proof
enclosure for a lot less than the price difference to the SG-237. SG239
handles twice as much power, for all that's worth.


Several years ago I used 4 fifty foot extention cords on top of the
ground for radials and it did work. I experiment with antennas a lot,
so everything at my qth is always changing.

Perhaps you can glean a little inspiration from
http://dixienc.us/28FtVert/28FtVertical.htm

There are some nice light weight fiberglass whips on the market in the
$100 range. One of these days I will follow that path.

Electrical conduit, or PVC pipe with some wire on or in it are other ideas.

Conduit is about as cheap as you can get, and it's available in lots of
different sizes. It's light weight too, so putting it up and down is easy.

Yes, it won't stand up to a hurricane.. but hey, you scrap your $10
investment in cheap galvanized steel and buy some more.

On 7/20/2011 9:43 AM, wrote:
Jay wrote:

The antenna would be about 4 feet away from the house. The house is 20
ft high at the peak of the roof (single story). The roof is concrete
tile. I've looked into suspending a wire from a telescopic pole but it
seems like it would be a little cumbersome to raise and lower. I've
looked at suspending a long wire between front and back yard trees but
that is a little more permanent and the HOA could bust me if they saw
it. This is why I'm thinking a vertical would be less visible, easier
to setup and take down, and has a fairly small wind load. I do favor
20 - 10 meter bands so that might be a prob elm for the design I'm
considering. I love the fact that cheap, small diameter pipe can work
as well as a commercial product. Thanks for that info!

If 20 meters and up is your primary interest, instead of a base fed
vertical make it a vertical dipole with the length based on 20 M.


And put your autotuner in the middle at the feedpoint. Get yourself a
batch of 31 mix toroidal cores to make some chokes, too.