Hi,

Just getting back on the air after many years of silence and I find
myself struggling over the choice of antennas. I need something that I
can easily raise and lower (get out of site due to CCR rules) so we're
talking about a compromise. I do have room for a couple of radials
(max 30 ft) as long as they can buried in the ground 180 degrees apart
(not ideal). The antenna will have to be installed within about 4 feet
from the side of my house. I was hoping to find a self supporting
vertical betwwen 30 and 40 ft hight that could pivit at the base
(might need to purchase that separately) so it can be laid down flat
on the ground next to the house when not in use. I plan on purchasing
an auto tuner if necessary. The vertical can have no physical radials
on the antenna itself.

And by the way, I live in the hills above Henderson, NV so the quality
of the ground isn't good; lots of rock and hard clay with poor
drainage.

Purchase price up to $400.00 OK. Any ideas of what might work in my
situation?

Many thanks in advance!

Jay Scherberth wrote:
Hi,

Just getting back on the air after many years of silence and I find
myself struggling over the choice of antennas. I need something that I
can easily raise and lower (get out of site due to CCR rules) so we're
talking about a compromise. I do have room for a couple of radials
(max 30 ft) as long as they can buried in the ground 180 degrees apart
(not ideal). The antenna will have to be installed within about 4 feet
from the side of my house. I was hoping to find a self supporting
vertical betwwen 30 and 40 ft hight that could pivit at the base
(might need to purchase that separately) so it can be laid down flat
on the ground next to the house when not in use. I plan on purchasing
an auto tuner if necessary. The vertical can have no physical radials
on the antenna itself.

And by the way, I live in the hills above Henderson, NV so the quality
of the ground isn't good; lots of rock and hard clay with poor
drainage.

Purchase price up to $400.00 OK. Any ideas of what might work in my
situation?

Many thanks in advance!

Some thoughts on the subject...

If you are going to have an auto tuner, the antenna itself need not be
anything more than a piece of tubing.

I have a 34 ft piece of tubing with a SGC-237 and that tuned 160 (kind of
marginally) through 10 with no problem.

I added a relay controlled loading coil to switch in for 160/80 and now
it tunes 80 faster and 160 no problem.

If your main interest is the lower bands, just make the tubing as long as
you can get away with and let the auto tuner deal with it.

If it is next to the house, drive in as much ground rod as you can and use
a garden drip system along with some flowers or whatnot around the base of
it.

Whatever radials you can install are better than nothing.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 15:21:09 -0700 (PDT), Jay Scherberth
wrote:

Purchase price up to $400.00 OK. Any ideas of what might work in my
situation?

Hi Jay,

Google for "Sleeve Dipole" (a vertical) which consists of staged
tubing, the upper element insulated from the lower. Do not connect
the lower element to ground. Thread the driveline coax up inside the
lower element and connect the shield to the top inside of the lower
element. Connect the coax inner lead to the bottom of the upper
element.

As I said, google for images as this description may frustrate you.

Invest the rest of your money (after buying sufficient quantity of
tubing) in your tuner. You may still have a lot left over.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On 7/19/2011 3:21 PM, Jay Scherberth wrote:
Hi,

Just getting back on the air after many years of silence and I find
myself struggling over the choice of antennas. I need something that I
can easily raise and lower (get out of site due to CCR rules) so we're
talking about a compromise. I do have room for a couple of radials
(max 30 ft) as long as they can buried in the ground 180 degrees apart
(not ideal). The antenna will have to be installed within about 4 feet
from the side of my house. I was hoping to find a self supporting
vertical betwwen 30 and 40 ft hight that could pivit at the base
(might need to purchase that separately) so it can be laid down flat
on the ground next to the house when not in use.

Pivoting is easy. You can buy a nifty thing from a variety of
suppliers, or you can use a couple pieces of 2x4 and a gate hinge.

Or, if you're stronger.. you can use the removable tetherball pole
approach: a pipe in the ground as a socket, into which you plug the
antenna pole.

A gate hinge with a removable pin (a standard door hinge works, too) is
nice, because then you can actually disconnect the antenna and carry it
away if you like.

You could probably adapt a "swing away" bike rack too.



I plan on purchasing
an auto tuner if necessary. The vertical can have no physical radials
on the antenna itself.

Autotuner and vertical is a great combination (if the tuner is at the
base of the antenna, particularly)


And by the way, I live in the hills above Henderson, NV so the quality
of the ground isn't good; lots of rock and hard clay with poor
drainage.

The only problem with "long antenna on high bands" is that the pattern
gets kind of wonky. If you care about this, then something like a 6BTV
trapped vertical might be a better solution. Still with the autotuner
(because it means you don't have to worry about the adjusting the
antenna or it changing as the soil moisture changes, etc.)



Purchase price up to $400.00 OK. Any ideas of what might work in my
situation?

Galvanized Fence Top Rail is a very cheap pipe available in 20 foot lengths.

EMT (thin wall conduit) is another.

If it's next to something (the house?).. how tall is the house? Can you
just suspend a wire?

That should get you started...

Richard, isn't this pretty well what the GAP antenna does ??

Jim K4PYT

-------------------

Hi Jay,

Google for "Sleeve Dipole" (a vertical) which consists of staged
tubing, the upper element insulated from the lower. Do not connect
the lower element to ground. Thread the driveline coax up inside the
lower element and connect the shield to the top inside of the lower
element. Connect the coax inner lead to the bottom of the upper
element.

As I said, google for images as this description may frustrate you.

Invest the rest of your money (after buying sufficient quantity of
tubing) in your tuner. You may still have a lot left over.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 22:12:17 -0400, "James"
wrote:

Richard, isn't this pretty well what the GAP antenna does ??

Hi James,

Yes, in large degree given my experience with the Gap Eagle. I figure
it would draw more than the usual attention, and become a target for
the covenants, deeds, and restrictions.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Jul 19, 5:51*pm, Jim Lux wrote:
On 7/19/2011 3:21 PM, Jay Scherberth wrote:

Hi,

Just getting back on the air after many years of silence and I find
myself struggling over the choice of antennas. I need something that I
can easily raise and lower (get out of site due to CCR rules) so we're
talking about a compromise. I do have room for a couple of radials
(max 30 ft) as long as they can buried in the ground 180 degrees apart
(not ideal). The antenna will have to be installed within about 4 feet
from the side of my house. I was hoping to find a self supporting
vertical betwwen 30 and 40 ft hight that could pivit at the base
(might need to purchase that separately) so it can be laid down flat
on the ground next to the house when not in use.

Pivoting is easy. *You can buy a nifty thing from a variety of
suppliers, or you can use a couple pieces of 2x4 and a gate hinge.

Or, if you're stronger.. you can use the removable tetherball pole
approach: a pipe in the ground as a socket, into which you plug the
antenna pole.

A gate hinge with a removable pin (a standard door hinge works, too) is
nice, because then you can actually disconnect the antenna and carry it
away if you like.

You could probably adapt a "swing away" bike rack too.

* I plan on purchasing

an auto tuner if necessary. The vertical can have no physical radials
on the antenna itself.

Autotuner and vertical is a great combination (if the tuner is at the
base of the antenna, particularly)



And by the way, I live in the hills above Henderson, NV so the quality
of the ground isn't good; lots of rock and hard clay with poor
drainage.

The only problem with "long antenna on high bands" is that the pattern
gets kind of wonky. *If you care about this, then something like a 6BTV
trapped vertical might be a better solution. *Still with the autotuner
(because it means you don't have to worry about the adjusting the
antenna or it changing as the soil moisture changes, etc.)



Purchase price up to $400.00 OK. Any ideas of what might work in my
situation?

Galvanized Fence Top Rail is a very cheap pipe available in 20 foot lengths.

EMT (thin wall conduit) is another.

If it's next to something (the house?).. how tall is the house? *Can you
just suspend a wire?

That should get you started...

The antenna would be about 4 feet away from the house. The house is 20
ft high at the peak of the roof (single story). The roof is concrete
tile. I've looked into suspending a wire from a telescopic pole but it
seems like it would be a little cumbersome to raise and lower. I've
looked at suspending a long wire between front and back yard trees but
that is a little more permanent and the HOA could bust me if they saw
it. This is why I'm thinking a vertical would be less visible, easier
to setup and take down, and has a fairly small wind load. I do favor
20 - 10 meter bands so that might be a prob elm for the design I'm
considering. I love the fact that cheap, small diameter pipe can work
as well as a commercial product. Thanks for that info!

"Richard Clark" wrote in message

Google for "Sleeve Dipole" (a vertical) which consists of staged
tubing, the upper element insulated from the lower. Do not connect
the lower element to ground. Thread the driveline coax up inside the
lower element and connect the shield to the top inside of the lower
element. Connect the coax inner lead to the bottom of the upper
element.

As I said, google for images as this description may frustrate you.

Invest the rest of your money (after buying sufficient quantity of
tubing) in your tuner. You may still have a lot left over.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

One of these for 10m was the first HF antenna I ever built. I wish I had
known then about decoupling the feed line, as I never could get repeatable
VSWR data, possibly due to common mode current. Maybe I'll rebuild it and
try again with a suitable choke.

I read about the sleeve dipole before I built it and I will pass on a
caution: The end where the cable comes out is a high voltage point
(expected for the ends of dipoles); higher powers may punch through the coax
outer jacket to the coax shield. I use a piece of PVC plumbing pipe as
additional separation inside the lower element and never had an issue.

"Sal"

Happy building.

On Jul 19, 3:55*pm, Richard Clark wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 15:21:09 -0700 (PDT), Jay Scherberth

wrote:
Purchase price up to $400.00 OK. Any ideas of what might work in my
situation?

Hi Jay,

Google for "Sleeve Dipole" (a vertical) which consists of staged
tubing, the upper element insulated from the lower. *Do not connect
the lower element to ground. *Thread the driveline coax up inside the
lower element and connect the shield to the top inside of the lower
element. *Connect the coax inner lead to the bottom of the upper
element.

As I said, google for images as this description may frustrate you.

Invest the rest of your money (after buying sufficient quantity of
tubing) in your tuner. *You may still have a lot left over.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard - Is there such a thing as a multi-band HF sleeve dipole or is
this more of a VHF/UHF solution?

On Jul 19, 3:53*pm, wrote:
Jay Scherberth wrote:
Hi,

Just getting back on the air after many years of silence and I find
myself struggling over the choice of antennas. I need something that I
can easily raise and lower (get out of site due to CCR rules) so we're
talking about a compromise. I do have room for a couple of radials
(max 30 ft) as long as they can buried in the ground 180 degrees apart
(not ideal). The antenna will have to be installed within about 4 feet
from the side of my house. I was hoping to find a self supporting
vertical betwwen 30 and 40 ft hight that could pivit at the base
(might need to purchase that separately) so it can be laid down flat
on the ground next to the house when not in use. I plan on purchasing
an auto tuner if necessary. The vertical can have no physical radials
on the antenna itself.

And by the way, I live in the hills above Henderson, NV so the quality
of the ground isn't good; lots of rock and hard clay with poor
drainage.

Purchase price up to $400.00 OK. Any ideas of what might work in my
situation?

Many thanks in advance!

Some thoughts on the subject...

If you are going to have an auto tuner, the antenna itself need not be
anything more than a piece of tubing.

I have a 34 ft piece of tubing with a SGC-237 and that tuned 160 (kind of
marginally) through 10 with no problem.

I added a relay controlled loading coil to switch in for 160/80 and now
it tunes 80 faster and 160 no problem.

If your main interest is the lower bands, just make the tubing as long as
you can get away with and let the auto tuner deal with it.

If it is next to the house, drive in as much ground rod as you can and use
a garden drip system along with some flowers or whatnot around the base of
it.

Whatever radials you can install are better than nothing.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Jim - You've given me new hope! How significant is the length and
depth of the radials? I probably have about 30 feet each way along the
side of the house. Are you suggesting a drip system around the ground
rod to improve the quality of the ground or for decorative reasons or
both?