Hi

Does the Shakespear or standard marine antenna base that is 1" 14tpi fit
anything else?

What about 1" national fine thread hex bolt? Or 3/4" npt plumbing type
thread? Anyone have any luck using something else without ruining the
threads? I cannot use one of their oem swivel base things for the
application I thinking of doing.

thnx for any advice,

73s

On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 18:50:16 -0500, "Tom" wrote:

Does the Shakespear or standard marine antenna base that is 1" 14tpi fit
anything else?

Yes, some farm impliments that I blundered across in the 1970's.
1"-14 UNS (class 2a and 2b) are used only for marine mounts. UNS
means "Unified National Special" which makes it a defacto standard
thread.

What about 1" national fine thread hex bolt? Or 3/4" npt plumbing type
thread?

Did you perhaps notice that the 1"-14 UNS thread is a straight thread,
while all the NPT plumbing threads are tapered?

Anyone have any luck using something else without ruining the
threads? I cannot use one of their oem swivel base things for the
application I thinking of doing.

I'll do everyone a favor and not describe some of the antenna mounting
abortions that I've seen in the Moss Landing and SCZ harbors, and at a
former employer in the marine biz. Let's just say that it can be made
to fit a variety of non-standard mounts, in a wide variety of ways,
most of really disgusting.

thnx for any advice,

So, what are you trying to accomplish?

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

I wasn't sure if the threads were straight as the bolt or tapered as npt
(national pipe taper).

I was trying to avoid buying the actual proper thread base (OEM), thought a
pipe nipple would work but it didn't, thought a bolt would work but it
didn't.

So was wondering if the threads were chewed and that was the reason it
wasn't working. I don't have that size tap anyway. Mabey a pipe tap but not
a 1" national fine thread straight tap.

Wanted to make a base but now see they are only 20 bucks on fleabay

What would be the best antenna for 2m one could fit up within the 8ft
fiberglass shell? That simple cutting of the coax can't be the best can it?
This new fiberglass whip I just got is one of the good old ones, very solid
and not flaky or nothing like the new shakespear ones they are producing. My
cover breaks those too easy.






"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 18:50:16 -0500, "Tom" wrote:

Does the Shakespear or standard marine antenna base that is 1" 14tpi fit
anything else?

Yes, some farm impliments that I blundered across in the 1970's.
1"-14 UNS (class 2a and 2b) are used only for marine mounts. UNS
means "Unified National Special" which makes it a defacto standard
thread.

What about 1" national fine thread hex bolt? Or 3/4" npt plumbing type
thread?

Did you perhaps notice that the 1"-14 UNS thread is a straight thread,
while all the NPT plumbing threads are tapered?

Anyone have any luck using something else without ruining the
threads? I cannot use one of their oem swivel base things for the
application I thinking of doing.

I'll do everyone a favor and not describe some of the antenna mounting
abortions that I've seen in the Moss Landing and SCZ harbors, and at a
former employer in the marine biz. Let's just say that it can be made
to fit a variety of non-standard mounts, in a wide variety of ways,
most of really disgusting.

thnx for any advice,

So, what are you trying to accomplish?

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 22:13:50 -0500, "Tom" wrote:

I wasn't sure if the threads were straight as the bolt or tapered as npt
(national pipe taper).

1"-15 UNS are straight threads. If it's expected to be under
pressure, it's tapered. If there's no pressure involved, it's usually
straight threads (or no threads).

I was trying to avoid buying the actual proper thread base (OEM), thought a
pipe nipple would work but it didn't, thought a bolt would work but it
didn't.

So was wondering if the threads were chewed and that was the reason it
wasn't working. I don't have that size tap anyway. Mabey a pipe tap but not
a 1" national fine thread straight tap.

1" UNF is 12 TPI (threads per inch).
1" UNC is 9 TPI
http://www.gewinde-normen.de/en/unified-fine-thread.html?

Wanted to make a base but now see they are only 20 bucks on fleabay

$13 for plastic:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/150781789267
Plenty more to choose from:
www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=marine+antenna+mount

What would be the best antenna for 2m one could fit up within the 8ft
fiberglass shell?

What's a "shell"? I'm visualizing a giant fiberglass clam shell. Very
marine looking, but not your typical vessel. Can you be a bit more
specific?

Does 2m mean 144-148MHz ham radio, or a 6ft marine fiberglass antenna?

That simple cutting of the coax can't be the best can it?

I don't understand. That "best" at doing what?

This new fiberglass whip I just got is one of the good old ones, very solid
and not flaky or nothing like the new shakespear ones they are producing. My
cover breaks those too easy.

First a "shell", than an ambiguous use of 2meters, followed by a vague
"best", and now a "cover". Perhaps you've had an overdose of election
year rhetoric and are trying to emulate the politicians by being
vague. Hopefully, it's not contageous. Some clarification would be
helpful.

If you look inside the older (1970') 3ft and 6ft fiberglass whips,
you'll get an interesting surprise. Most of the antenna is sticky
back copper tape, about 1/4" wide, and glued to the inside of the
fiberglass taper. The fatter antennas are usually better built out of
copper plated welding rod. The best are stainless rod. The problem
is you can't really tell unless you tear it apart.

How to mount a 2.4GHz omni on a 1"-14 marine antenna mount:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/marine-omni/index.html

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

In article ,
"Tom" wrote:

Hi

Does the Shakespear or standard marine antenna base that is 1" 14tpi fit
anything else?

What about 1" national fine thread hex bolt? Or 3/4" npt plumbing type
thread? Anyone have any luck using something else without ruining the
threads? I cannot use one of their oem swivel base things for the
application I thinking of doing.

thnx for any advice,

73s

The thread is Straight Cut as opposed to NPT, which is Tapered...
HOWEVER,

I have cut 3/4" NPT Threads, using my Pipe Threader, that will work on
Marine Antennas. The trick is to have an Adjustable Die, and cut the
threads just a tad bit deeper than normal 3/4" NPT. It works well, as
long as your Pipe has enough wall thickness, to take the deeper
threading. I have used in in Alaska for years, and had no issues with
the antennas or mounts.

--
Bruce in Alaska add path before the @ for email

You really stuck your foot into this one Bruce, now you are going to be stuck answering stupid questions for the next couple of weeks.

The Fiberglass Shell as the OP called it is called a Radome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radome

The problem the OP has - besides being cheap and wanting something for nothing is the fact that he does not understand what is inside of the radome.

If you disassemble and Antron A99 or a Diamond X 500 - once inside, you will find a piece of copper wire or steel wire or stainless steel wire that is usually copper plated.
Between each section - spaced for certain wavelengths is capacitors of unknown origin which makes the antenna into segments - some for 2 meters and some for 70 CM.
This is what gives it its gain.
These are purpose built antenna's for those frequencies..

You cannot take a Marine antenna - that uses a different frequency and use it on amateur frequencies - due to the fact that there is no way to get internally inside of the antenna and change the lengths of the segments of the wires inside of the antenna.

Unfortunately - there is not a lot of educated Elmers out there that are willing to help a newbe - just due to the fact that most of the people who are left in Amateur Radio came from the CB radio and they were not knowledgeable - like the ones who came before them.

Most of them never built anything in their life and are just appliance operators.

I believe I had this conversation with this person or another person like this person previously.. My advice was that if the threads are of a ******* Origin and you are not willing to repair them or buy the mount to throw away the antenna..

They do not make a tap and die or make one that is economically feasable to repair a $10.00 antenna.. When you get into non standard threads - if you can find a tap and die - they tend to be quite pricey..

We are talking $60 - $100 each...

You would have to fix a whole bunch of antenna's just to break even, and it wouldn't be economical to buy it to fix one antenna.
You could buy a Diamond X 510 for about $150.00 and it would be already designed for the frequencys you desire to operate on.

JMHO
CJ

On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 15:29:10 -0900, Bruce Gordon
wrote:

The thread is Straight Cut as opposed to NPT, which is Tapered...
HOWEVER,

I have cut 3/4" NPT Threads, using my Pipe Threader, that will work on
Marine Antennas. The trick is to have an Adjustable Die, and cut the
threads just a tad bit deeper than normal 3/4" NPT. It works well, as
long as your Pipe has enough wall thickness, to take the deeper
threading. I have used in in Alaska for years, and had no issues with
the antennas or mounts.

That sorta works because 3/4" NPT is also 14 TPI (threads per inch).
Also, pipe is measured by the inside diameter, while nut and bolt type
hardware, which includes 1"-14 antennas, is measured by the outside
diameter. The result is that 3/4" NPT and 1"-14 UNS can be made to
fit.

I've seen the results of this method of antenna mounting. If the
antenna base is heavy and strong, it will work. If it's cheap pot
metal, the tapered pipe thread will crack the base when tightened. If
the 3/4" NPT is a little on the large side, it will be supported by
only by one or two threads. Hit the antenna with anything, and the
base will peel out of the mount.

The practice of using 3/4" NPT mounting is even more of a problem with
GPS antennas, which are usually mounted on some manner of pipe. In
order to avoid having two thread standards, Trimble and other have
standardized on an odd compromise threading that works with both 1"-14
and 3/4" NPT. For example:
http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-8420/Bullet-III_DS.pdf
The socket accepts either a 1"-14 straight thread (typical
marine antenna mount) or a 3/4" pipe thread.
However, to the best of my knowledge, such a thread is not used in
marine antennas.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Fri, 9 Nov 2012 14:08:13 +0000, Channel Jumper
wrote:

You really stuck your foot into this one Bruce, now you are going to be
stuck answering stupid questions for the next couple of weeks.

So much for diplomacy.

If you disassemble and Antron A99 or a Diamond X 500 -

$270 list for the Diamond X-510.
http://www.rfparts.com/diamond/x510series.html
The problem with such large antennas for VHF use on a vessel is that
they have too much gain. The vertical radiation angle is fairly
narrow. My guess(tm) is about 5 degrees at 450MHz and 10 degrees at
146MHz. As the vessels pitches and rolls, much of the RF is directed
into the water or into the sky, with very little going towards the
horizon. Unless one has a gyro stabilized platform, a lower gain
antenna might be more useful.

once inside, you
will find a piece of copper wire or steel wire or stainless steel wire
that is usually copper plated.

Inside a Diamond X50 dual band ham antenna.
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/Misc/x50.jpg
Sorry about the lousy photo. It's badly stitched together from four
seperate photos. If you're wondering what happened, the former owner
leaned the antenna against the garage wall, and then backed his car
into it.

Between each section - spaced for certain wavelengths is capacitors of
unknown origin which makes the antenna into segments - some for 2 meters
and some for 70 CM.
This is what gives it its gain.

That's the brass sleeve section in the middle. The gain is provided
mostly by properly phasing the radiating sections so that the signals
add.

These are purpose built antenna's for those frequencies..

I should hope so. I would be seriously worried if they were built
without any purpose in mind. Perhaps for decorations as it's well
known that the uglier the antenna, the better it works.

You cannot take a Marine antenna - that uses a different frequency and
use it on amateur frequencies - due to the fact that there is no way to
get internally inside of the antenna and change the lengths of the
segments of the wires inside of the antenna.

You'll be amazed at how little is actually inside a marine antenna. I
don't have any photos handy. Most are copper tape glued to the inside
of the tube, errr... radome. The rest are variations on coaxial
(sleeve) antennas. However, for entertainment, I glued some magnetic
recording tape (ferrite) along the copper tape and was able to lower
the resonant frequency from about 156MHz to about 149MHz. That's not
enough for ham use, but does show that it can be done.

Most of them never built anything in their life and are just appliance
operators.

Again the diplomacy problem...

They do not make a tap and die or make one that is economically feasable
to repair a $10.00 antenna.. When you get into non standard threads -
if you can find a tap and die - they tend to be quite pricey..
We are talking $60 - $100 each...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/380414359502 $29
However, the dies are rather pricy.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[quote='Tom[_8_];798370']

I was trying to avoid buying the actual proper thread base (OEM), thought a
pipe nipple would work but it didn't, thought a bolt would work but it
didn't.

Wanted to make a base but now see they are only 20 bucks on fleabay

What would be the best antenna for 2m one could fit up within the 8ft
fiberglass shell? That simple cutting of the coax can't be the best can it?




Well Jeff The OP said he would like to use the marine antenna in place of a 2 meter antenna.
YOU ANSWERED YOUR OWN QUESTION WHEN YOU ADVISED HIM THAT THERE WAS TOO MUCH DISPARITY BETWEEN TWO METERS AND THE MARINE BAND.
That was my point when I said to throw it away and buy another antenna.

Your advice was that although the X510 was about the same size, it had too much gain to be of use on a rolling ship.

Then you just go to the next obvious antenna.
The Diamond V2000 would give the OP 2 meters, 70 CM and also 6 meters with the same antenna and is only 6' long - or there abouts.

Thanks Channel Jumper

I don't think my questions are "stupid".

First off, you didn't answer my last question, you sounded pretty
intelligent with your swaying me thoroughly into oblivia, completely around
my question.

It is obvious you understood the question, probably knew the answer, but
didn't answer my question. Remember Channel Jumper, radio wave propagation
and antenna theory was not what I majored in at the schools. I did graduate
you know. I mean a accredited university gave me my masters. Do you have any
accredation at all? Well then you cannot call me "stupid". I am willing to
bet my career required a lot more years of study than yours. And continuous
learning and upgrading. Yes, you are very knowledgable in regards to antenna
work, however follow me for a day and I am sure you would be asking a lot of
"stupid" questions.

I will ignore negative comments from you. But you still didn't answer my
last question, you brilliantly jigged right around it. Wouldn't touch it. I
figured you didn't know the answer yet it was on topic, about the coils of
the dipole, but you went right around it twice. Why not just say you don't
know the specific answer? Instead of trying to thrill me with your wealth of
knowledge on antenna design and engineering, I just wanted to know lengths
and widths. But you read a page from your first year electrical theory
course to me that went right around my question.




"Channel Jumper" wrote in message
...

You really stuck your foot into this one Bruce, now you are going to be
stuck answering stupid questions for the next couple of weeks.

The Fiberglass Shell as the OP called it is called a Radome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radome

The problem the OP has - besides being cheap and wanting something for
nothing is the fact that he does not understand what is inside of the
radome.

If you disassemble and Antron A99 or a Diamond X 500 - once inside, you
will find a piece of copper wire or steel wire or stainless steel wire
that is usually copper plated.
Between each section - spaced for certain wavelengths is capacitors of
unknown origin which makes the antenna into segments - some for 2 meters
and some for 70 CM.
This is what gives it its gain.
These are purpose built antenna's for those frequencies..

You cannot take a Marine antenna - that uses a different frequency and
use it on amateur frequencies - due to the fact that there is no way to
get internally inside of the antenna and change the lengths of the
segments of the wires inside of the antenna.

Unfortunately - there is not a lot of educated Elmers out there that are
willing to help a newbe - just due to the fact that most of the people
who are left in Amateur Radio came from the CB radio and they were not
knowledgeable - like the ones who came before them.

Most of them never built anything in their life and are just appliance
operators.

I believe I had this conversation with this person or another person
like this person previously.. My advice was that if the threads are of
a ******* Origin and you are not willing to repair them or buy the mount
to throw away the antenna..

They do not make a tap and die or make one that is economically feasable
to repair a $10.00 antenna.. When you get into non standard threads -
if you can find a tap and die - they tend to be quite pricey..

We are talking $60 - $100 each...

You would have to fix a whole bunch of antenna's just to break even, and
it wouldn't be economical to buy it to fix one antenna.
You could buy a Diamond X 510 for about $150.00 and it would be already
designed for the frequencys you desire to operate on.

JMHO
CJ




--
Channel Jumper