Way back in the 1970's I visited the National Physical Laboratory (NPL) at
Teddington, West London.

I was priviledged to see, but not to touch, the National Standards of the
Ohm and of the Volt. There were a number of 4-terminal resistors submerged
in a temperature-controlled oil bath. There was about a dozen Western Cells
with connecting wires submerged in another temperature-controlled oil bath.
There were small fans in the oil to ensure a very slow circulation.

I asked my guide, the physicist responsible for maintaining these vital
standards of measurement on which the Commercial, Industrial, Engineering,
Scientific life of the Nation is supported, what special sort of oil was
used in the baths?

He said it was the same stuff, without the perfume, as young men used for
hair oil and came from a tree in Malaya.
----
Reg, G4FGQ

Jav...

I've had one for about 30 years, run everything from an 80m Kallyfornia Kilowatt
to a 1 watt aircraft transmitter into nothing more than K-mart automatic
transmission fluid. Excellent results.

BTW, read your local paper when it lists the 150+ people running for governor.
Expecially read the last names beginning with W {;-)

Jim


Javier Henderson
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-I got a Heathkit Cantenna recently, sans oil.
-
-Where do I find transformer oil? The few industrial suppliers in my
-area (Monterey, CA) want to sell me drums of the stuff. I only need
-a gallon...
-
-Is motor oil OK to use?
-
-73,
--jav w6vms

Jim Weir, VP Eng. RST Eng. WX6RST
A&P, CFI, and other good alphabet soup

Well it would seem that the 'don't use motor oil' comment
which has been passed on by mouth to mouth over the decades
doesn't seem to stand up to scruteny.
Yes, the question is raised so many times over the years
and the same old stories pop up, but without any
substantiation such that it just appears to be gossip.
One statement mentions attack on resisters, where's the proof,
If it is true then it surely can be easily overcome.
Hopefully this time, one of the many posters over the
years on this subject will make observations that are
relevant to the present day instead of waiting for a book.
Art








"Keyboard In The Wilderness" wrote in message news:4q8Za.31351$ff.14186@fed1read01...
From the Google Group Search Engine: For what it is worth

The Handbook (at least my 1990 edition) has some information on this
subject.
In the Station Accessories chapter there are plans to build a couple of
Cantenna type dummy loads. They mention an oil sold by Texaco (if I remember
correctly) for turbine lubrication that is, according to the author, the
same
oil as is used in transformers. They quote the exact product designation.
Apparently, it's sold in minimum 5 gallon quantities and I think it's about
$5 per gallon. If anyone's interested, let me know and I'll look up the
information and pass it along. It's supposed to be PCB-free, also.

The article also cautions against using motor oil for various reasons, among
which is that it attacks the resistor (actually, I think it's the additives
that cause the problem).




"Art Unwin KB9MZ" wrote in message
m...
"Keyboard In The Wilderness" wrote in message
news:fjUYa.31252$ff.5358@fed1read01...
Jav -- asked many times before -- for the answers go to Groups
Google.com
http://groups.google.com/

I don,t fully understand why motor oil should not be used
in a dummy load! I need to make one so I can calibrate
one of my instruments. I intend to use one of the uptodate
gallon paint cans that has a PTFE liner and solder the lid on.
Since we now have the means to use low wattage signals for
tuning up purposes there is obviously no reason to store it
in the shack . So what really is the problem with using
available oil instead of emulating the aproach of industrial
transformers or regurgitating old thoughts ?
Art








Search for Oil For Cantenna or Oil For Dummy Load

Mineral Oil works well for me.


"Javier Henderson" wrote in message
...
I got a Heathkit Cantenna recently, sans oil.

Where do I find transformer oil? The few industrial suppliers in my
area (Monterey, CA) want to sell me drums of the stuff. I only need
a gallon...

Is motor oil OK to use?

73,
-jav w6vms

On 10 Aug 2003 08:19:18 -0700, (Art Unwin KB9MZ)
wrote:

Well it would seem that the 'don't use motor oil' comment
which has been passed on by mouth to mouth over the decades
doesn't seem to stand up to scruteny.
Yes, the question is raised so many times over the years
and the same old stories pop up, but without any
substantiation such that it just appears to be gossip.
One statement mentions attack on resisters, where's the proof,
If it is true then it surely can be easily overcome.
Hopefully this time, one of the many posters over the
years on this subject will make observations that are
relevant to the present day instead of waiting for a book.
Art


Well Art, the detergents in modern motor oils are specifically
formulated to dissolve carbon deposits and sludge (largely made up of
carbon) and keep in in suspension. I'm pretty sure that the resistor
in my Cantenna is carbon. Transformer oil is formulated to have a
high dieletric strength. Mineral oil is relatively pure, lightweight
petrolatum (like liquid Vaseline(r)) and has a pretty high dieletric
strength just because of low impurities. Motor oil? I don't know.
ATF? I don't know about that either. What I do know is that the
designers of my dummy load specify either transformer oil or mineral
oil. That's good enough for me. I'll mosey on down to the
transformer shop of the local electric utility and buy the folks there
a round of coffee in the morning or over to the veterinary supply and
buy a gallon of mineral oil U. S. P. I think it's safer that way. We
hams are in interestingly cheap lot. We'll spend thousands on a new
rig that could break down tomorrow and then pour a gallon of
"whatever" into the dummy load instead of spending twenty bucks for
mineral oil or fifty bucks for MFJs transformer oil. This in a unit
that with ordinary care will last a lifetime. Sheesh!

Russ








"Keyboard In The Wilderness" wrote in message news:4q8Za.31351$ff.14186@fed1read01...
From the Google Group Search Engine: For what it is worth

The Handbook (at least my 1990 edition) has some information on this
subject.
In the Station Accessories chapter there are plans to build a couple of
Cantenna type dummy loads. They mention an oil sold by Texaco (if I remember
correctly) for turbine lubrication that is, according to the author, the
same
oil as is used in transformers. They quote the exact product designation.
Apparently, it's sold in minimum 5 gallon quantities and I think it's about
$5 per gallon. If anyone's interested, let me know and I'll look up the
information and pass it along. It's supposed to be PCB-free, also.

The article also cautions against using motor oil for various reasons, among
which is that it attacks the resistor (actually, I think it's the additives
that cause the problem).




"Art Unwin KB9MZ" wrote in message
m...
"Keyboard In The Wilderness" wrote in message
news:fjUYa.31252$ff.5358@fed1read01...
Jav -- asked many times before -- for the answers go to Groups
Google.com
http://groups.google.com/

I don,t fully understand why motor oil should not be used
in a dummy load! I need to make one so I can calibrate
one of my instruments. I intend to use one of the uptodate
gallon paint cans that has a PTFE liner and solder the lid on.
Since we now have the means to use low wattage signals for
tuning up purposes there is obviously no reason to store it
in the shack . So what really is the problem with using
available oil instead of emulating the aproach of industrial
transformers or regurgitating old thoughts ?
Art








Search for Oil For Cantenna or Oil For Dummy Load

Mineral Oil works well for me.


"Javier Henderson" wrote in message
...
I got a Heathkit Cantenna recently, sans oil.

Where do I find transformer oil? The few industrial suppliers in my
area (Monterey, CA) want to sell me drums of the stuff. I only need
a gallon...

Is motor oil OK to use?

73,
-jav w6vms

Jim Weir writes:

I've had one for about 30 years, run everything from an 80m Kallyfornia Kilowatt
to a 1 watt aircraft transmitter into nothing more than K-mart automatic
transmission fluid. Excellent results.

Excellent. I -may- have to make-do with WalMart's brand, but we'll see.

BTW, read your local paper when it lists the 150+ people running for governor.
Expecially read the last names beginning with W {;-)

I already sent in my dollar.

Go Jim!

-jav

Russ,
The point I am making is that some comments are repeated
so many times they take a life of their own
Think about it, the resistors of old are a far cry from
the carbon resistors of today which are not as porous,
if it is a worry then coat it with epoxy !
Then there is the "rust" question, the paint cans of today
have a teflon liner ! Even the latest ham data states that
motor oil CAN be used ( no, it will not explode !) but raise
a question of "life", possibly a suggestive comment that you
change the oil every 5000 qso's.
Certainly industry gives a good guide as to what is the best
to use for their circumstances but it doesn't rule out every
thing else for all time, and this includes motor oil of which
there are many types.
Regards
Art

Russ wrote in message . ..
On 10 Aug 2003 08:19:18 -0700, (Art Unwin KB9MZ)
wrote:

Well it would seem that the 'don't use motor oil' comment
which has been passed on by mouth to mouth over the decades
doesn't seem to stand up to scruteny.
Yes, the question is raised so many times over the years
and the same old stories pop up, but without any
substantiation such that it just appears to be gossip.
One statement mentions attack on resisters, where's the proof,
If it is true then it surely can be easily overcome.
Hopefully this time, one of the many posters over the
years on this subject will make observations that are
relevant to the present day instead of waiting for a book.
Art


Well Art, the detergents in modern motor oils are specifically
formulated to dissolve carbon deposits and sludge (largely made up of
carbon) and keep in in suspension. I'm pretty sure that the resistor
in my Cantenna is carbon. Transformer oil is formulated to have a
high dieletric strength. Mineral oil is relatively pure, lightweight
petrolatum (like liquid Vaseline(r)) and has a pretty high dieletric
strength just because of low impurities. Motor oil? I don't know.
ATF? I don't know about that either. What I do know is that the
designers of my dummy load specify either transformer oil or mineral
oil. That's good enough for me. I'll mosey on down to the
transformer shop of the local electric utility and buy the folks there
a round of coffee in the morning or over to the veterinary supply and
buy a gallon of mineral oil U. S. P. I think it's safer that way. We
hams are in interestingly cheap lot. We'll spend thousands on a new
rig that could break down tomorrow and then pour a gallon of
"whatever" into the dummy load instead of spending twenty bucks for
mineral oil or fifty bucks for MFJs transformer oil. This in a unit
that with ordinary care will last a lifetime. Sheesh!

Russ








"Keyboard In The Wilderness" wrote in message news:4q8Za.31351$ff.14186@fed1read01...
From the Google Group Search Engine: For what it is worth

The Handbook (at least my 1990 edition) has some information on this
subject.
In the Station Accessories chapter there are plans to build a couple of
Cantenna type dummy loads. They mention an oil sold by Texaco (if I remember
correctly) for turbine lubrication that is, according to the author, the
same
oil as is used in transformers. They quote the exact product designation.
Apparently, it's sold in minimum 5 gallon quantities and I think it's about
$5 per gallon. If anyone's interested, let me know and I'll look up the
information and pass it along. It's supposed to be PCB-free, also.

The article also cautions against using motor oil for various reasons, among
which is that it attacks the resistor (actually, I think it's the additives
that cause the problem).




"Art Unwin KB9MZ" wrote in message
m...
"Keyboard In The Wilderness" wrote in message
news:fjUYa.31252$ff.5358@fed1read01...
Jav -- asked many times before -- for the answers go to Groups
Google.com
http://groups.google.com/

I don,t fully understand why motor oil should not be used
in a dummy load! I need to make one so I can calibrate
one of my instruments. I intend to use one of the uptodate
gallon paint cans that has a PTFE liner and solder the lid on.
Since we now have the means to use low wattage signals for
tuning up purposes there is obviously no reason to store it
in the shack . So what really is the problem with using
available oil instead of emulating the aproach of industrial
transformers or regurgitating old thoughts ?
Art








Search for Oil For Cantenna or Oil For Dummy Load

Mineral Oil works well for me.


"Javier Henderson" wrote in message
...
I got a Heathkit Cantenna recently, sans oil.

Where do I find transformer oil? The few industrial suppliers in my
area (Monterey, CA) want to sell me drums of the stuff. I only need
a gallon...

Is motor oil OK to use?

73,
-jav w6vms

In article ,
Roy Lewallen wrote:

DX QSOs with your dummy load count as "harsh conditions", so you've got
to change the oil every 2500 DX QSOs if you don't want your dummy load
wearing out early.

I imagine that all of the (unradiated) CQs being fed into the dummy
load end up being absorbed by the oil and eventually precipitate out
as a sludge on the bottom of the can?

Maybe there's a way to filter them out of the oil and recycle them.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Reg Edwards wrote:
Way back in the 1970's I visited the National Physical Laboratory (NPL) at
Teddington, West London.

I was priviledged to see, but not to touch, the National Standards of the
Ohm and of the Volt. There were a number of 4-terminal resistors submerged
in a temperature-controlled oil bath. There was about a dozen Western Cells

Is that something like a Weston Cell?

On a serious note, don't overlook refrigeration oils, they are high
quality, light, dry oils for immersed motor windings, and available in
smaller sealed tins (around 5 litres).

Owen

(Art Unwin KB9MZ) wrote in message om...
Russ,
The point I am making is that some comments are repeated
so many times they take a life of their own
Think about it, the resistors of old are a far cry from
the carbon resistors of today which are not as porous,
if it is a worry then coat it with epoxy !

And there goes the heat transfer characteristics of the
purpose-designed/built resistors used for liquid cooled dummy loads.

Then there is the "rust" question, the paint cans of today
have a teflon liner !

Paint cans are not resistors, they do not have to be surface-cooled
and the reason for the coatings is the water in todays the water-based
paints. Nobody I know uses water or latex paint in their dummy loads.

Even the latest ham data states that
motor oil CAN be used ( no, it will not explode !) but raise
a question of "life", possibly a suggestive comment that you
change the oil every 5000 qso's.
Certainly industry gives a good guide as to what is the best
to use for their circumstances but it doesn't rule out every
thing else for all time, and this includes motor oil of which
there are many types.

Maybe 50,000 qso's later with the 'ole Cantenna on the side I'm still
running like new on drugstore mineral oil. Get back to us when your
reserch indicates which motor oil beats mineral oil.

Maybe ten years ago I had to wire brush, prime and repaint the can, it
was rusting from the *outside*.

Regards
Art

w3rv

is far motor oil (if you have to use it ) use "nd 30" (or 40 ,20,50 the
weight is not important) the "nd" is non detergent, to not dissolve carbon

i tend to agree try to find an oil closer to what's "right"

bob