Hello,



I am interested by all experiments concerning the installation and the type
of antennas to be used for a station located in mountain. Decametric band
and VHF.If possible !



Situation:

French Alps

1.300 meters of altitude.

QTH : 45° 27' 24" North - 6° 41' 56" East

Locator JN35IK



Mask in the north located at 1.000 m. far, altitude 2.300 m.

Mask in the south located at 4.500 m. far, altitude 2.300 m.

Mask in the west located at 3.000 m. far, altitude 1.800 m.

Mask in the East located at 1.500 m. far, altitude 1.900 m.

Mask in western south located at 8.000 m. far, altitude 2.600 m.



Have a large ground, possibility of installing any type of material


Thanks in advance for any suggestion


--
Bernard Brun

http://www.bouquetin.com
Phone : ++33(0) 479 550 113
Fax : ++33(0) 479 550 476

Bernhard,

your situation is not oo bad, there are worse scenarios here in Austria.
Aome of my frieds operate from similar locations.

Please keep in mind, that VHF and UHF do verry much reflect from your
surrounding "masks", and you would not believe what is possible to reach
without line of sight.

So any installation of antennas, suitable for the band, will do the job.
There is another pointto be payed attention to: Try to use high gain
verticals, like the ones from diamond, for VHF/UHF. Sometimes the
reflections arrive from different sides at the same time. With a high gain
beam you could miss the most of them, or even cannot tell the direction
where they are coming from.

Please specify the expression "Decametric" in frequency/MHz terms. There are
too many of different bands to be included in this aerea of spectrum.

73 de OE8SOQ
Helmut

BTW, nice place to put up a station!
"Bernard Brun" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
| Hello,
|
|
|
| I am interested by all experiments concerning the installation and the
type
| of antennas to be used for a station located in mountain. Decametric band
| and VHF.If possible !
|
|
|
| Situation:
|
| French Alps
|
| 1.300 meters of altitude.
|
| QTH : 45° 27' 24" North - 6° 41' 56" East
|
| Locator JN35IK
|
|
|
| Mask in the north located at 1.000 m. far, altitude 2.300 m.
|
| Mask in the south located at 4.500 m. far, altitude 2.300 m.
|
| Mask in the west located at 3.000 m. far, altitude 1.800 m.
|
| Mask in the East located at 1.500 m. far, altitude 1.900 m.
|
| Mask in western south located at 8.000 m. far, altitude 2.600 m.
|
|
|
| Have a large ground, possibility of installing any type of material
|
|
| Thanks in advance for any suggestion
|
|
| --
| Bernard Brun
|
| http://www.bouquetin.com
| Phone : ++33(0) 479 550 113
| Fax : ++33(0) 479 550 476
|
|

Bernhard,

your situation is not oo bad, there are worse scenarios here in Austria.
Aome of my frieds operate from similar locations.

Please keep in mind, that VHF and UHF do verry much reflect from your
surrounding "masks", and you would not believe what is possible to reach
without line of sight.

So any installation of antennas, suitable for the band, will do the job.
There is another pointto be payed attention to: Try to use high gain
verticals, like the ones from diamond, for VHF/UHF. Sometimes the
reflections arrive from different sides at the same time. With a high gain
beam you could miss the most of them, or even cannot tell the direction
where they are coming from.

Please specify the expression "Decametric" in frequency/MHz terms. There are
too many of different bands to be included in this aerea of spectrum.

73 de OE8SOQ
Helmut

BTW, nice place to put up a station!
"Bernard Brun" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
| Hello,
|
|
|
| I am interested by all experiments concerning the installation and the
type
| of antennas to be used for a station located in mountain. Decametric band
| and VHF.If possible !
|
|
|
| Situation:
|
| French Alps
|
| 1.300 meters of altitude.
|
| QTH : 45° 27' 24" North - 6° 41' 56" East
|
| Locator JN35IK
|
|
|
| Mask in the north located at 1.000 m. far, altitude 2.300 m.
|
| Mask in the south located at 4.500 m. far, altitude 2.300 m.
|
| Mask in the west located at 3.000 m. far, altitude 1.800 m.
|
| Mask in the East located at 1.500 m. far, altitude 1.900 m.
|
| Mask in western south located at 8.000 m. far, altitude 2.600 m.
|
|
|
| Have a large ground, possibility of installing any type of material
|
|
| Thanks in advance for any suggestion
|
|
| --
| Bernard Brun
|
| http://www.bouquetin.com
| Phone : ++33(0) 479 550 113
| Fax : ++33(0) 479 550 476
|
|

Bonjour,

Thank your for your answer

Decametric : 3,5 7, 10, 14, 21 ,18, 21, 28, MHz

Kind regards,
--
Bernard Brun
Chalets du Bouquetin - Résidence de Tourisme ****
Parc National de la Vanoise
Paradiski, domaines skiables de la Plagne & des Arcs
http://www.bouquetin.com
Phone : ++33(0) 479 550 113
Fax : ++33(0) 479 550 476

Bonjour,

Thank your for your answer

Decametric : 3,5 7, 10, 14, 21 ,18, 21, 28, MHz

Kind regards,
--
Bernard Brun
Chalets du Bouquetin - Résidence de Tourisme ****
Parc National de la Vanoise
Paradiski, domaines skiables de la Plagne & des Arcs
http://www.bouquetin.com
Phone : ++33(0) 479 550 113
Fax : ++33(0) 479 550 476

Hi Guys,

On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 14:30:28 +0200, "Helmut"
wrote:

Bernhard,

Please keep in mind, that VHF and UHF do verry much reflect from your
surrounding "masks", and you would not believe what is possible to reach
without line of sight.

Although my situation may not be "Alpine," I do live between two
mountain ranges in hilly country (terrain varies 200M through many
river valleys). To the East are the Cascade Range with more than the
average density of Volcanos (think Mt. St. Helens or Mt. Ranier, or
Mt. Hood, or ,,,) which stand in the 4000M area. However, they are
exceptions to the general rule, because the surrounding Cascades are
rather smaller at maybe half to 2/3rds those big guns.

To the west we have the Olympic Mountain Range which are on par with
the Cascades for height. Living between them, my friend often find
they can get better contacts by aiming their beams 180° to their
target because there is a small hill in the way and the reflections
off the mountains behind give more than enough signal.

There is also the phenomenon of knife edge diffraction that occurs at
these hill's peaks or ridges. Myself, I live behind a hill that
interferes with my buddy's repeater. I live at 100M above sea level
(Puget Sound), the hill rises to 150M and masks the repeater antenna.
I use RadioMobile software to map the geographic distribution of RF:
http://www.qsl.net/aa7uj/
or
http://www.qsl.net/aa7uj/coverage/10m-1uv.jpg
which is one of several footprints, this one being the 1 µV
sensitivity service area (shown in orange) for the 10M repeater.

Now, if the concern is with HF bands, then that is probably more a
concern of DX coverage (not suited to RadioMobile as it is principally
line of sight oriented). There I use VOAWIN which is a gargantuan and
very busy propagation modeler. An example of this is found at:
http://www.qsl.net/kb7qhc/propagation/index.htm

The first pass analysis of how much terrain impacts your signal can be
evaluated by simply looking at the peaks. How many degrees above the
horizontal do they rise? If less than 10° then no big deal. If more
than 50° then you must be living in a cave (most slopes are rarely
steeper than 20-30°). I must say there are exceptions like deep
valleys. Last week I was in the Royal Gorge that is 400M deep and
maybe 100M wide.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Hi Guys,

On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 14:30:28 +0200, "Helmut"
wrote:

Bernhard,

Please keep in mind, that VHF and UHF do verry much reflect from your
surrounding "masks", and you would not believe what is possible to reach
without line of sight.

Although my situation may not be "Alpine," I do live between two
mountain ranges in hilly country (terrain varies 200M through many
river valleys). To the East are the Cascade Range with more than the
average density of Volcanos (think Mt. St. Helens or Mt. Ranier, or
Mt. Hood, or ,,,) which stand in the 4000M area. However, they are
exceptions to the general rule, because the surrounding Cascades are
rather smaller at maybe half to 2/3rds those big guns.

To the west we have the Olympic Mountain Range which are on par with
the Cascades for height. Living between them, my friend often find
they can get better contacts by aiming their beams 180° to their
target because there is a small hill in the way and the reflections
off the mountains behind give more than enough signal.

There is also the phenomenon of knife edge diffraction that occurs at
these hill's peaks or ridges. Myself, I live behind a hill that
interferes with my buddy's repeater. I live at 100M above sea level
(Puget Sound), the hill rises to 150M and masks the repeater antenna.
I use RadioMobile software to map the geographic distribution of RF:
http://www.qsl.net/aa7uj/
or
http://www.qsl.net/aa7uj/coverage/10m-1uv.jpg
which is one of several footprints, this one being the 1 µV
sensitivity service area (shown in orange) for the 10M repeater.

Now, if the concern is with HF bands, then that is probably more a
concern of DX coverage (not suited to RadioMobile as it is principally
line of sight oriented). There I use VOAWIN which is a gargantuan and
very busy propagation modeler. An example of this is found at:
http://www.qsl.net/kb7qhc/propagation/index.htm

The first pass analysis of how much terrain impacts your signal can be
evaluated by simply looking at the peaks. How many degrees above the
horizontal do they rise? If less than 10° then no big deal. If more
than 50° then you must be living in a cave (most slopes are rarely
steeper than 20-30°). I must say there are exceptions like deep
valleys. Last week I was in the Royal Gorge that is 400M deep and
maybe 100M wide.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Bernard

I sent you a 145MHz and 30MHz propagation study to the email address at
the foot of your post

I hope you got it..

Cheers Bob VK2YQA

Bernard Brun wrote:
Hello,



I am interested by all experiments concerning the installation and the type
of antennas to be used for a station located in mountain. Decametric band
and VHF.If possible !



Situation:

French Alps

1.300 meters of altitude.

QTH : 45° 27' 24" North - 6° 41' 56" East

Locator JN35IK



Mask in the north located at 1.000 m. far, altitude 2.300 m.

Mask in the south located at 4.500 m. far, altitude 2.300 m.

Mask in the west located at 3.000 m. far, altitude 1.800 m.

Mask in the East located at 1.500 m. far, altitude 1.900 m.

Mask in western south located at 8.000 m. far, altitude 2.600 m.



Have a large ground, possibility of installing any type of material


Thanks in advance for any suggestion

Bernard

I sent you a 145MHz and 30MHz propagation study to the email address at
the foot of your post

I hope you got it..

Cheers Bob VK2YQA

Bernard Brun wrote:
Hello,



I am interested by all experiments concerning the installation and the type
of antennas to be used for a station located in mountain. Decametric band
and VHF.If possible !



Situation:

French Alps

1.300 meters of altitude.

QTH : 45° 27' 24" North - 6° 41' 56" East

Locator JN35IK



Mask in the north located at 1.000 m. far, altitude 2.300 m.

Mask in the south located at 4.500 m. far, altitude 2.300 m.

Mask in the west located at 3.000 m. far, altitude 1.800 m.

Mask in the East located at 1.500 m. far, altitude 1.900 m.

Mask in western south located at 8.000 m. far, altitude 2.600 m.



Have a large ground, possibility of installing any type of material


Thanks in advance for any suggestion

Richard Clark wrote in message . ..
Hi Guys,

On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 14:30:28 +0200, "Helmut"
wrote:

Bernhard,

Please keep in mind, that VHF and UHF do verry much reflect from your
surrounding "masks", and you would not believe what is possible to reach
without line of sight.

Although my situation may not be "Alpine," I do live between two
mountain ranges in hilly country (terrain varies 200M through many
river valleys). To the East are the Cascade Range with more than the
average density of Volcanos (think Mt. St. Helens or Mt. Ranier, or
Mt. Hood, or ,,,) which stand in the 4000M area. However, they are
exceptions to the general rule, because the surrounding Cascades are
rather smaller at maybe half to 2/3rds those big guns.

To the west we have the Olympic Mountain Range which are on par with
the Cascades for height. Living between them, my friend often find
they can get better contacts by aiming their beams 180° to their
target because there is a small hill in the way and the reflections
off the mountains behind give more than enough signal.

There is also the phenomenon of knife edge diffraction that occurs at
these hill's peaks or ridges. Myself, I live behind a hill that
interferes with my buddy's repeater. I live at 100M above sea level
(Puget Sound), the hill rises to 150M and masks the repeater antenna.
I use RadioMobile software to map the geographic distribution of RF:
http://www.qsl.net/aa7uj/
or
http://www.qsl.net/aa7uj/coverage/10m-1uv.jpg
which is one of several footprints, this one being the 1 µV
sensitivity service area (shown in orange) for the 10M repeater.

Now, if the concern is with HF bands, then that is probably more a
concern of DX coverage (not suited to RadioMobile as it is principally
line of sight oriented). There I use VOAWIN which is a gargantuan and
very busy propagation modeler. An example of this is found at:
http://www.qsl.net/kb7qhc/propagation/index.htm

The first pass analysis of how much terrain impacts your signal can be
evaluated by simply looking at the peaks. How many degrees above the
horizontal do they rise? If less than 10° then no big deal. If more
than 50° then you must be living in a cave (most slopes are rarely
steeper than 20-30°). I must say there are exceptions like deep
valleys. Last week I was in the Royal Gorge that is 400M deep and
maybe 100M wide.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Also consider NVIS below 10 MHz. It will get you over the mountain
and talking to your neighbors.