I already have a 5 element, 6m beam installed on a telescoping pushup pole
guyed with metalic guys. I'm thinking of putting a matching beam below the
present one and phasing them (with top/bottom/both switching).

Will the metalic guys have much effect on the bottom antenna? There will be
about 3 ft of clearance at minimum when turning.

73,

jw
K9RZZ

On 11 Jul 2004 01:25:32 GMT, (J999w) wrote:

I already have a 5 element, 6m beam installed on a telescoping pushup pole
guyed with metalic guys. I'm thinking of putting a matching beam below the
present one and phasing them (with top/bottom/both switching).

Will the metalic guys have much effect on the bottom antenna? There will be
about 3 ft of clearance at minimum when turning.

73,

jw
K9RZZ
I've got my 6 meter beam about the same distance from my guy wires and
haven't found any problems. Of course the guys were always there so I
don't have the benefit of a before and after comparison. I've checked
the VSWR with the antenna pointing different directions to see if it
changes as the position of the elements in relation to the guys had
any effect and there were no change. Once you've finsished installing
the second beam and the switching don't forget to point it toward
Southern California during band openings - I've got Illinois, Iowa and
Michigan but no Wisconsin .......... yet, hopefully your new setup
will change that 8-}

73 & best of luck,
Howard

Once you've finsished installing
the second beam and the switching don't forget to point it toward
Southern California during band openings - I've got Illinois, Iowa and
Michigan but no Wisconsin .......... yet, hopefully your new setup
will change that 8-}

73 & best of luck,
Howard

Thanks for input, will give it a whirl.

Hearing bursts from AF6O DM14 right now, but no QSO yet.


CU on the band !

jw

What Bill says is correct, and it is easy to implement on 6M. Put one
insulator as close to the mast as possible and another 4 - 5 feet down the
guy. Even though that is close to quarter wave, it isn't resonant unless
you leave out the insulator. That will put the unknown grounded remainder
of the guys almost a half wave away, which is barely acceptable, but better
than having them right up under the antenna.
--
Crazy George
Remove N O and S P A M imbedded in return address
"Bill Turner" wrote in message
...
On 11 Jul 2004 01:25:32 GMT, (J999w) wrote:

Will the metalic guys have much effect on the bottom antenna? There will
be
about 3 ft of clearance at minimum when turning.

__________________________________________________ _______

Three feet is pretty close. I'd break it up with insulators or else use
Phillystrand for the part close to the antenna. The important thing is
whether the guy wire is resonant (or close to resonance). If you leave
it as is, you're always going to wonder if you shoulda.

--
Bill, W6WRT
QSLs via LoTW

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 15:22:54 -0500, "Crazy George"
wrote:

What Bill says is correct, and it is easy to implement on 6M. Put one
insulator as close to the mast as possible and another 4 - 5 feet down the
guy. Even though that is close to quarter wave, it isn't resonant unless
you leave out the insulator. That will put the unknown grounded remainder
of the guys almost a half wave away, which is barely acceptable, but better
than having them right up under the antenna.
Well, now you & Bill have me wondering if I should go up on the roof
and redo the guys ....... which is no easy task for me. I did however
use lengths that aren't resonant ........ aww heck, it's working now
so I guess I'll leave it alone until the next time I need to
add/change anything else.

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 19:04:38 -0700, Bill Turner
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 13:45:22 -0700, Howard mensch90249 wrote:

Well, now you & Bill have me wondering if I should go up on the roof
and redo the guys ....... which is no easy task for me. I did however
use lengths that aren't resonant ........ aww heck, it's working now
so I guess I'll leave it alone until the next time I need to
add/change anything else.

_________________________________________________ ________

Ok, if you're going to leave it up as is, at least do one simple test.
Monitor the SWR as you rotate it through 360 degrees. If there is no
change at all, you can sleep well at night. If you get radical swings
in SWR, break up the guys ASAP. If you get "moderate" swings in SWR...
try do define "moderate". :-)


Bill,
Did that test when I installed the antenna and there were no changes
at all points tested (checked every 45 degrees). Funny thing is that
I've seen insulators used and know why they're used ...... it just
didn't occur to me to consider them as I was fixated on using a
non-resonant guy length. Let's just call me lucky this time and
lesson learned for the future.

As to defining moderate........I'm not biting 8-}

Howard

Howard:

See, here's the problem. If those guys are tied to a metal mast on one end
and ground on the other, then you have no idea what the electrical length
is. And, if the mast is grounded as it is supposed to be, then the mast,
ground and guy form a loop which is dangerous even in the "non-resonant"
mode. And the SWR test is a very insensitive test. Although if forward
gain is the primary criteria, then you are likely OK, but on HF, where front
to back and front to side ratios are important, then guy reradiation can be
significant enough to mess those up without showing up on SWR.

--
Crazy George
Remove N O and S P A M imbedded in return address
"Howard" mensch90249 wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 19:04:38 -0700, Bill Turner
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 13:45:22 -0700, Howard mensch90249 wrote:

Well, now you & Bill have me wondering if I should go up on the roof
and redo the guys ....... which is no easy task for me. I did however
use lengths that aren't resonant ........ aww heck, it's working now
so I guess I'll leave it alone until the next time I need to
add/change anything else.

_________________________________________________ ________

Ok, if you're going to leave it up as is, at least do one simple test.
Monitor the SWR as you rotate it through 360 degrees. If there is no
change at all, you can sleep well at night. If you get radical swings
in SWR, break up the guys ASAP. If you get "moderate" swings in SWR...
try do define "moderate". :-)


Bill,
Did that test when I installed the antenna and there were no changes
at all points tested (checked every 45 degrees). Funny thing is that
I've seen insulators used and know why they're used ...... it just
didn't occur to me to consider them as I was fixated on using a
non-resonant guy length. Let's just call me lucky this time and
lesson learned for the future.

As to defining moderate........I'm not biting 8-}

Howard

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:37:10 -0500, "Crazy George"
wrote:

Howard:

See, here's the problem. If those guys are tied to a metal mast on one end
and ground on the other, then you have no idea what the electrical length
is. And, if the mast is grounded as it is supposed to be, then the mast,
ground and guy form a loop which is dangerous even in the "non-resonant"
mode. And the SWR test is a very insensitive test. Although if forward
gain is the primary criteria, then you are likely OK, but on HF, where front
to back and front to side ratios are important, then guy reradiation can be
significant enough to mess those up without showing up on SWR.

Thanks for the additional info/perspective. I realize the SWR is only
a portion of the picture, though the only element I can actually
measure. F/B isn't much of an issue for me, from where I live most of
the directions I point my beam has the back pointing to the ocean.
The difficulty in adding insulators is that I don't do work on the
roof anymore & the handyman whom I've been using for such tasks is
pretty heavily booked these days. In any case, once he's free it's
not a huge task and with the worst case being no difference and the
best case being a better radiation pattern this is now on my list of
things to get done.

Thanks George and Bill for your input!

73,
Howard