I am assuming that when the plane is out of range the battery switch opens
and the plane nose dives.
Haven't opened the box yet but that is my intention to have the controls
work
Best regards
Art
"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Art Unwin KB9MZ wrote:
Does any body see any negatives about this aproach which will always
be done under zero wind conditions?

How can you know the exact distance the receiver is from
the transmitter? 73, Cecil

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 19:10:18 GMT, "
wrote:

I have looked upward more than 20 times to watch a buzz bomb (V1) go
overhead with its characteristic brirp-brurp
tone on the assumption that when it ran out of gas it would start its
erratic journey to ground.

Nope, they were range set against a count down counter that was driven
by a patent log mechanism (boats use this everyday as a taffrail log
or a screw log).

If Churchill had council to
your knoweledge as to how theyREALLY were controlled I suspect I would have
hit the deck more than once.
Proves that ignorance is really bliss.

Perhaps so. Too bad Churchill didn't subscribe to the History
Channel. ;-)

With respect to model airoplanes the controls are limited in power as I
understand it and the range consequently is
somewhat less tha 200 metres. Since all my antennas are worthless acoording
to comment here tests can be undertaken
on my own property.
Art

You would also need some precision receivers for even those worthless
antennas. For 10M operating out to 200M, only 20 wavelengths, that is
hardly any signal strength change to speak of and to make the plane
dive at some pre-determined signal level is going to take quite a
sophisticated measurement. Keep in mind that neighboring interstate
CB traffic is going to mix in and muddy up the response (your airplane
may follow the next Coke truck to Chicago).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Well if I have to use suffisticated methods that you describe then this idea
is also worthless as it would not receive your stamp of approval. I'll give
the plane to my grandson so that it will not go to waste.
Consider post closed
Art
"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 19:10:18 GMT, "
wrote:

I have looked upward more than 20 times to watch a buzz bomb (V1) go
overhead with its characteristic brirp-brurp
tone on the assumption that when it ran out of gas it would start its
erratic journey to ground.

Nope, they were range set against a count down counter that was driven
by a patent log mechanism (boats use this everyday as a taffrail log
or a screw log).

If Churchill had council to
your knoweledge as to how theyREALLY were controlled I suspect I would
have
hit the deck more than once.
Proves that ignorance is really bliss.

Perhaps so. Too bad Churchill didn't subscribe to the History
Channel. ;-)

With respect to model airoplanes the controls are limited in power as I
understand it and the range consequently is
somewhat less tha 200 metres. Since all my antennas are worthless
acoording
to comment here tests can be undertaken
on my own property.
Art

You would also need some precision receivers for even those worthless
antennas. For 10M operating out to 200M, only 20 wavelengths, that is
hardly any signal strength change to speak of and to make the plane
dive at some pre-determined signal level is going to take quite a
sophisticated measurement. Keep in mind that neighboring interstate
CB traffic is going to mix in and muddy up the response (your airplane
may follow the next Coke truck to Chicago).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

"Art Unwin KB9MZ" wrote in message
m...
Invariably when antenna gain is mentioned
questions arise as to gain measurement and accuracy there of.
I do a lot of antenna experiments and declarations of gain never get
any where.
Ihave now purchased a 27 Mhz electric model airoplane and am now in
the process of making a new design antenna and I intend to measure an
antennas
relative gain my comparing the distance travelled by the model by
usind a standard whip antenna and then by using newly designed
antenna.
I visualise keeping a record of distance travelled of my various
experiment antennas.
Does any body see any negatives about this aproach which will always
be done under zero wind conditions? I am looking for a real world
guide to gain to escape from the gain arguments of today.
Thanks in advance
Art


Art

If I'd be allowed to change my mind after I got more thought/information
on this project, I really like the idea. It will be somewhat of an
instrument complex project ?wont it?.
A GPS could record alot of data if the plan includes things like that.
I would have thought that small variations in distance to the aircraft
wouldnt be excessively critical. But, it would be important to keep
records of the angle to the aircraft from the antenna.
I see Excel and some clocks somewhere in there.

This sure would be a fun project. If you do get it working, I'd go to
where you are just to see it in action.

Jerry

Jerry, in the Midwest we have a lot of flat lands with corn and soya beens
so it is very easy to find a place to test after the harvest. Watched
somebody operate one of these and I wopuld expect that you would take an
average of say 5 flights each before the battery die.
One may see reflections off of a corn cob that has not been gleaned. 27 Mhz
was not my frequency of choice but this was available. Planes are two engine
type and are controlled by turning the motors on or off for turns.....
no flap movements....very simple I would think that doing a distance
comparison is more believable when seen than any manufacturers specs and
would give me sufficient
guidance when an improvement occurs. I certainly think it would add
crededance when observed at a club meeting
even tho gurus with a little bit of knoweledge will require more
sophisticated equipment. If I was comparing one
manufacturer to another with respect to
R/C controlled equipment it sure would satisfy me as seeing is believing .
When I asked for comment I had already put in place all the good things
and it was my expectations that the group would focus on the negatives
which is how it came out with a balancing list of negatives to compare
Appreciate the comments
Art
"Jerry Martes" wrote in message
...

"Art Unwin KB9MZ" wrote in message
m...
Invariably when antenna gain is mentioned
questions arise as to gain measurement and accuracy there of.
I do a lot of antenna experiments and declarations of gain never get
any where.
Ihave now purchased a 27 Mhz electric model airoplane and am now in
the process of making a new design antenna and I intend to measure an
antennas
relative gain my comparing the distance travelled by the model by
usind a standard whip antenna and then by using newly designed
antenna.
I visualise keeping a record of distance travelled of my various
experiment antennas.
Does any body see any negatives about this aproach which will always
be done under zero wind conditions? I am looking for a real world
guide to gain to escape from the gain arguments of today.
Thanks in advance
Art


Art

If I'd be allowed to change my mind after I got more thought/information
on this project, I really like the idea. It will be somewhat of an
instrument complex project ?wont it?.
A GPS could record alot of data if the plan includes things like that.
I would have thought that small variations in distance to the aircraft
wouldnt be excessively critical. But, it would be important to keep
records of the angle to the aircraft from the antenna.
I see Excel and some clocks somewhere in there.

This sure would be a fun project. If you do get it working, I'd go to
where you are just to see it in action.

Jerry

" wrote in message
news:PnTSc.246149$%_6.109745@attbi_s01...
Jerry, in the Midwest we have a lot of flat lands with corn and soya beens
so it is very easy to find a place to test after the harvest. Watched
somebody operate one of these and I wopuld expect that you would take an
average of say 5 flights each before the battery die.
One may see reflections off of a corn cob that has not been gleaned. 27
Mhz
was not my frequency of choice but this was available. Planes are two
engine
type and are controlled by turning the motors on or off for turns.....
no flap movements....very simple I would think that doing a distance
comparison is more believable when seen than any manufacturers specs and
would give me sufficient
guidance when an improvement occurs. I certainly think it would add
crededance when observed at a club meeting
even tho gurus with a little bit of knoweledge will require more
sophisticated equipment. If I was comparing one
manufacturer to another with respect to
R/C controlled equipment it sure would satisfy me as seeing is believing .
When I asked for comment I had already put in place all the good things
and it was my expectations that the group would focus on the negatives
which is how it came out with a balancing list of negatives to compare
Appreciate the comments
Art
"Jerry Martes" wrote in message
...

"Art Unwin KB9MZ" wrote in message
m...
Invariably when antenna gain is mentioned
questions arise as to gain measurement and accuracy there of.
I do a lot of antenna experiments and declarations of gain never get
any where.
Ihave now purchased a 27 Mhz electric model airoplane and am now in
the process of making a new design antenna and I intend to measure an
antennas
relative gain my comparing the distance travelled by the model by
usind a standard whip antenna and then by using newly designed
antenna.
I visualise keeping a record of distance travelled of my various
experiment antennas.
Does any body see any negatives about this aproach which will always
be done under zero wind conditions? I am looking for a real world
guide to gain to escape from the gain arguments of today.
Thanks in advance
Art


Art

If I'd be allowed to change my mind after I got more
thought/information
on this project, I really like the idea. It will be somewhat of an
instrument complex project ?wont it?.
A GPS could record alot of data if the plan includes things like that.
I would have thought that small variations in distance to the aircraft
wouldnt be excessively critical. But, it would be important to keep
records of the angle to the aircraft from the antenna.
I see Excel and some clocks somewhere in there.

This sure would be a fun project. If you do get it working, I'd go
to
where you are just to see it in action.

Jerry

Art

If the goal is to compare the signal strength of an antenna under test,
with the signal strength from a standard antenna, like a quarter wave
vertical, I'd think this aircraft method would provide decent information.
I do think there is no way to determine the performance of the 'antenna
under test' so the antenna design community could accept the data. But, it
would be a valid comparison of any antenna with a standard antenna. That
would be a "specific antenna gain".
How would you sense the variation in signal strength received at the
aircraft?

Jerry

How about if you get a field strength meter and walk away from the reference
antenna (like a vertical 1/4-wave) until you get a mid-range reading. - then
do the same with the tested antenna.
compare the distances - and note that signal strength is inversly related to
the square of the distance.
If the distance for the same reading is double for the beam - that means it
has 4 times the effective power in that direction.
then convert to db-gain



"Art Unwin KB9MZ" wrote in message
m...
Invariably when antenna gain is mentioned
questions arise as to gain measurement and accuracy there of.
I do a lot of antenna experiments and declarations of gain never get
any where.
Ihave now purchased a 27 Mhz electric model airoplane and am now in
the process of making a new design antenna and I intend to measure an
antennas
relative gain my comparing the distance travelled by the model by
usind a standard whip antenna and then by using newly designed
antenna.
I visualise keeping a record of distance travelled of my various
experiment antennas.
Does any body see any negatives about this aproach which will always
be done under zero wind conditions? I am looking for a real world
guide to gain to escape from the gain arguments of today.
Thanks in advance
Art


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Yes but it still does not have believability on this group as immediately
there would be concern about the accuracy of the equipments used and the
suggestion that one must try for accuracy by going into free space as well
as the position of your body when obseving measurements.
To do thing right one must have complexity to convince a guru
Art
"Hal Rosser" wrote in message
...


How about if you get a field strength meter and walk away from the
reference
antenna (like a vertical 1/4-wave) until you get a mid-range reading. -
then
do the same with the tested antenna.
compare the distances - and note that signal strength is inversly related
to
the square of the distance.
If the distance for the same reading is double for the beam - that means
it
has 4 times the effective power in that direction.
then convert to db-gain



"Art Unwin KB9MZ" wrote in message
m...
Invariably when antenna gain is mentioned
questions arise as to gain measurement and accuracy there of.
I do a lot of antenna experiments and declarations of gain never get
any where.
Ihave now purchased a 27 Mhz electric model airoplane and am now in
the process of making a new design antenna and I intend to measure an
antennas
relative gain my comparing the distance travelled by the model by
usind a standard whip antenna and then by using newly designed
antenna.
I visualise keeping a record of distance travelled of my various
experiment antennas.
Does any body see any negatives about this aproach which will always
be done under zero wind conditions? I am looking for a real world
guide to gain to escape from the gain arguments of today.
Thanks in advance
Art


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.732 / Virus Database: 486 - Release Date: 7/29/2004

ok - he could stand on his head while doing it - would that be complicated
enough ?

" wrote in message
news:%tTSc.113811$8_6.4732@attbi_s04...
Yes but it still does not have believability on this group as immediately
there would be concern about the accuracy of the equipments used and the
suggestion that one must try for accuracy by going into free space as well
as the position of your body when obseving measurements.
To do thing right one must have complexity to convince a guru
Art
"Hal Rosser" wrote in message
...


How about if you get a field strength meter and walk away from the
reference
antenna (like a vertical 1/4-wave) until you get a mid-range reading. -
then
do the same with the tested antenna.
compare the distances - and note that signal strength is inversly
related
to
the square of the distance.
If the distance for the same reading is double for the beam - that means
it
has 4 times the effective power in that direction.
then convert to db-gain



"Art Unwin KB9MZ" wrote in message
m...
Invariably when antenna gain is mentioned
questions arise as to gain measurement and accuracy there of.
I do a lot of antenna experiments and declarations of gain never get
any where.
Ihave now purchased a 27 Mhz electric model airoplane and am now in
the process of making a new design antenna and I intend to measure an
antennas
relative gain my comparing the distance travelled by the model by
usind a standard whip antenna and then by using newly designed
antenna.
I visualise keeping a record of distance travelled of my various
experiment antennas.
Does any body see any negatives about this aproach which will always
be done under zero wind conditions? I am looking for a real world
guide to gain to escape from the gain arguments of today.
Thanks in advance
Art


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.732 / Virus Database: 486 - Release Date: 7/29/2004






---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.732 / Virus Database: 486 - Release Date: 7/29/2004

Art Unwin KB9MZ wrote:
Does any body see any negatives about this aproach which will always
be done under zero wind conditions?

How do you know the exact distance the receiver is from the
transmitter?



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