Let's say I have a perfectly balanced dipole with a feedpoint impedance of
72+j0 at my frequency of interest.
I connect a perfect 72 ohm coax (an unbalanced connection) to the feedpoint,
and drive the antenna system with an unbalanced 72 ohm source.

Since the power sent to the antenna is not reflected, do I need a balun?

"Wayne" wrote in message
...
Let's say I have a perfectly balanced dipole with a feedpoint impedance of
72+j0 at my frequency of interest.
I connect a perfect 72 ohm coax (an unbalanced connection) to the
feedpoint, and drive the antenna system with an unbalanced 72 ohm source.

Since the power sent to the antenna is not reflected, do I need a balun?

For simple dipoles baluns are just good for theory. As long as there is not
enough RF comming back into the shack to cause problems ,who cares where the
RF is going in most cases. If the antenna is perfect it will radiate in two
main directions and not too well in the other 2. For general ham usage it
is good to be able to radiate in all directions in many cases.

Wayne wrote:
Let's say I have a perfectly balanced dipole with a feedpoint impedance of
72+j0 at my frequency of interest.
I connect a perfect 72 ohm coax (an unbalanced connection) to the feedpoint,
and drive the antenna system with an unbalanced 72 ohm source.

Since the power sent to the antenna is not reflected, do I need a balun?

Baluns have nothing to do with reflections.

The purpose of a balun is to eliminate current flow on the outside
of the coax which makes the coax appear to be another element of the
antenna and thus upsetting the antenna pattern.

It also keeps RF from getting back inside the station via the coax
shield, which can cause all sorts of strange things to happen from
hot mics to computer crashes.

--
Jim Pennino

On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 09:34:08 -0700, "Wayne"
wrote:

Let's say I have a perfectly balanced dipole with a feedpoint impedance of
72+j0 at my frequency of interest.
I connect a perfect 72 ohm coax (an unbalanced connection) to the feedpoint,
and drive the antenna system with an unbalanced 72 ohm source.

Since the power sent to the antenna is not reflected, do I need a balun?

If you're doing this test in free space, then you won't need a balun.
However, reality has a way creating problems with perfectly balanced
dipoles. If your antenna construction, mounting, or grounding
arrangement does anything to ruin the perfect balance of the dipole
and produce common mode currents in the coax, the coax will radiate.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Let's say I have a perfectly balanced dipole with a feedpoint impedance of
72+j0 at my frequency of interest.
I connect a perfect 72 ohm coax (an unbalanced connection) to the feedpoint,
and drive the antenna system with an unbalanced 72 ohm source.

Since the power sent to the antenna is not reflected, do I need a balun?

I think you're oversimplying things a bit here.

Under these conditions, without a balun, the coax feeding the
antenna is not going to see a perfect 72-ohm match. It will see the
72-ohm load of the antenna, in parallel with an unbalanced load
consisting of the conductive path down the outside of the feedline
coax towards the transmitter. Without a balun, the current flow into
the antenna will not be perfectly balanced, the feedline and load
impedances will not be perfectly matched, and there will be some
amount of reflected power.

Remember - current doesn't just flow in the *best* path. It flows in
*all* paths (unequally, depending on the impedances involved). The
mere fact that there's a "perfect match" between feedline and antenna,
does not somehow magically prevent current from flowing in other paths
which are attached to that same feedpoint.

Now... do you "need" a balun under these conditions? It depends, on
what "need" means.

- If somebody is going to shoot you if there's any measurable amount
of reflected power, or if there's any current flow on the outside
of the coax disturbing your antenna's theoretically-perfect
pattern, then yes, you need a balun.

- If your feedline happens to be close to a multiple of 1/2
wavelength long (as measured at the propagation velocity on the
*outside*, which will be close to C) between the antenna and
ground, then there may be enough current flow on the outside of the
coax to be problematic ("rf in the shack", or "rf pickup into the
house wiring or gutter downspouts"), and a balun would help choke
off the current flow and could be beneficial.

- If the feedline is long enough, and/or far enough away from an
even-halfwave length, then the impedance along the outside of the
coax will be high and/or reactive enough to result in a low level
of current flow. Under these conditions a balun may not make any
meaningful difference.

A lot of people run "half-wave" center-fed dipoles without baluns, and
are perfectly happy with the result.

"Dave Platt" wrote in message
...
..

- If the feedline is long enough, and/or far enough away from an
even-halfwave length, then the impedance along the outside of the
coax will be high and/or reactive enough to result in a low level
of current flow. Under these conditions a balun may not make any
meaningful difference.

A lot of people run "half-wave" center-fed dipoles without baluns, and
are perfectly happy with the result.


I am one of those people. I have an 80 meter dipole and do not use a balun
on it. It is about 50 feet high and 100 feet of coax to the shack. Also on
it I have added two other dipoles for the 18 and 24 MHz bands. When it
comes into the shack there is a coax switch for several antennas and a wire
going to a ground rod and it is also tied into the house ground. Seems to
work ok running 1200 watts without problems on 80 meters. I only run 100
watts on the other 2 bands as the amp is not set up for them. I have used
the amp aroun 500 watts a couple of times for short contacts on the other
bands.

The 80 meter dipole compairs fine to an off center fed antenna that is about
10 feet higher and at right angles to it. The OCF has a 4:1 voltage balun
at the feed point and a bead choke about 20 feet down the coax and 80 more
feet to the coax switch.

I think both antennas are too low to the ground to be very directional.
They are supported on the ends so are in a V or almost flat top.

On 7/27/2015 11:34 AM, Wayne wrote:
Let's say I have a perfectly balanced dipole with a feedpoint impedance
of 72+j0 at my frequency of interest.
I connect a perfect 72 ohm coax (an unbalanced connection) to the
feedpoint, and drive the antenna system with an unbalanced 72 ohm source.

Since the power sent to the antenna is not reflected, do I need a balun?

No.

On 7/28/2015 11:58 AM, John S wrote:
On 7/27/2015 11:34 AM, Wayne wrote:
Let's say I have a perfectly balanced dipole with a feedpoint impedance
of 72+j0 at my frequency of interest.
I connect a perfect 72 ohm coax (an unbalanced connection) to the
feedpoint, and drive the antenna system with an unbalanced 72 ohm source.

Since the power sent to the antenna is not reflected, do I need a balun?

No.

Sorry, I typed too hastily. Please disregard my response.

"John S" wrote in message ...

On 7/28/2015 11:58 AM, John S wrote:
On 7/27/2015 11:34 AM, Wayne wrote:
Let's say I have a perfectly balanced dipole with a feedpoint impedance
of 72+j0 at my frequency of interest.
I connect a perfect 72 ohm coax (an unbalanced connection) to the
feedpoint, and drive the antenna system with an unbalanced 72 ohm source.

Since the power sent to the antenna is not reflected, do I need a balun?

No.

# Sorry, I typed too hastily. Please disregard my response.

LOL....yes, I was puzzled by your response.