Chuck,

If you check American History, you will see a lot of colonies were founded for
religious freedom. As a Baptist, one of our unique features is an emphasis on
religious liberty. We can agree to disagree, but true Chrisitanity seeks
liberty. Also, many of our presidents were Christian or religious. Religious
expression is found in our guiding documents, such as the Dec. of Independence,
and the Constitution.

Islam is not the same as Christianity. Not all religions are the same or teach
the same. Just remember that "theology" can be different, but ethics, such as
the Golden Rule, can be the same.Look at the core beliefs and you will see
major differences. One of the differences is that Islam practices conversion
by the sword. Some misguided Christians in the past have also practiced it,
but as you point out the Sermon on the Mount does not support it.

I am a Christian "fanatic" as it is my job and my passion. It has changed my
life for the better. I vote my Christian beliefs, irregardless of the
political party. And the Bible tells us to pray for the kings over us. Since
we do not have a king, but we can see a principle to pray for our government
leaders - All of them.

It is not lunacy to accept and practice religious belief (and I am talking in
general terms of all the world religions and sects). What is lunacy is to
misapply religion and use for personal gain, to control people or put people
down because of differing beliefs (For more religious discrimination, check out
Islam and Hinduism, and the Eastern Orthodox churches).

As you said, the foundation of American Values is liberty and that includes the
free practice of religious beliefs.

BTW instead of WWJD, WRJU - What Radio would Jesus Use? With all of his
travels, I would guess an FT-817 portable radio. :-)

Randy

"Theplanters95" wrote in message
...
Chuck,

If you check American History, you will see a lot of colonies were founded
for
religious freedom. As a Baptist, one of our unique features is an
emphasis on
religious liberty. We can agree to disagree, but true Chrisitanity seeks
liberty. Also, many of our presidents were Christian or religious.
Religious
expression is found in our guiding documents, such as the Dec. of
Independence,
and the Constitution.


Yep, and that expression is one of hope that the government not be beholden
to any Official Christianity. For the past couple of millennia, Official
Christianity has been seeking the divine path and simultaneously
exterminating all those who would diverge from the Official Truth. Life has
gotten very troublesome when several competing versions of Official
Christian Truth have had to share the same time and space.

Christianity does not seek liberty, and in the historical record, has often
been liberty's greatest foe. Of the various flavors of Christianity
available today, broadly, to be a Christian, you have to either recognize a
religious hierarchy as superior to your individual liberty, or accept the
literal word of the Bible, which can only be done by Faith (which let's you
ignore a whole lot of problematic Biblical advice).

The trouble with being a True Believer is that there is no way to agree to
disagree. No matter how politely you disagree with my truth, that's heresy!
How can I let a heretic teach my kids in public school? I must struggle (in
the best jihad sense) to help the truth prevail. You must be persuaded,
re-educated, or.... eliminated.

BTW, I think that only Rhode Island & Providence Plantations was formed
mostly for religious freedom (fleeing the hobnailed boots of religious
intolerance then existing in....., uhhh, Massachusetts), all the other
American colonies were formed to turn a profit for an investment trust. And,
a hundred years later, those God-fearing folks were up to their eyebrows in
utilizing and turning a big profit from black slavery. Who woulda thunk it,
Brown Sugar?

Ed
wb6wsn

"Richard Clark" wrote
/snip
fighting cultures. Bush in his flight suit and helmet reminds me of
that pathetic picture of Dukakis in the Tank - what a matched pair!

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Hi Richard, need we point out to you the absurdity of comparison between a
pretender waving from armor he never saw before in his life, to a qualifed
USAF jet fighter pilot who gets suited back up for a carrier landing? We can
find a lot of things to disagree with President Bush's policies about, but
one thing he is not, is a phony.

73,
Jack Painter
Virginia Beach VA

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:33:33 -0400, "Jack Painter"
wrote:

We can
find a lot of things to disagree with President Bush's policies about, but
one thing he is not, is a phony.

Hi Jack,

Now there's a forced presumption. :-)

Then says Rollanz: "Wherefore so wroth with me?" He answers him:
"Comrade, it was your deed: Vassalage comes by sense, and not folly;
Prudence more worth is than stupidity. Here are Franks dead, all for
your trickery; No more service to Carlun may we yield. My lord were
here now, had you trusted me, And fought and won this battle then had
we, Taken or slain were the king Marsilie. In your prowess, Rollanz,
no good we've seen! Charles the great in vain your aid will seek --
None such as he till God His Judgement speak; -- Here must you die,
and France in shame be steeped; Here perishes our loyal company,
Before this night great severance and grief." AOI.

A pretty rough translation, no doubt about it, but from another:

"Then Roland says: 'Why are you angry with me?'
And he answers: 'Companion, it is your own doing, for knightly
courage used with prudence is one thing and folly is another, and
tempered judgment is more to be valued than the rashness of
arrogance. Those French are dead because of your heedlessness,
and we will never act again in Charles' service. If you had listened
to me, my lord would have returned and we would have won this
battle and King Marsiliun would have been captured or killed.
Woe to us, Roland, that we ever saw your bravery! Charles the
Great, a man whose like will never be see again until God judges
the world, will no longer be able to rely on our help, and you will
die, and shame will come to France. Today our faithful friendship
will end, and before evening we will have parted in sorrow."

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Jack Painter wrote in message news:1De6d.5748$%t3.2636@lakeread01...

"Richard Clark" wrote
/snip
fighting cultures. Bush in his flight suit and helmet reminds me of
that pathetic picture of Dukakis in the Tank - what a matched pair!

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Hi Richard, need we point out to you the absurdity of comparison between a
pretender waving from armor he never saw before in his life, to a qualifed
USAF jet fighter pilot who gets suited back up for a carrier landing? We can
find a lot of things to disagree with President Bush's policies about, but
one thing he is not, is a phony.

73,
Jack Painter
Virginia Beach VA

A true believer you are, Jack...

Consider the fact that Bush did not complete
his pilot training by refusing to take his annual
flight physical and flight review, thus was
removed from flight status. Phoney docs aside,
his military record is good authority to verify this.
The fact that he claims to be a fighter pilot not
only makes the man a phony, he is a dishonest
one as well.

Oh... he was not a USAF officer, but a member
if the ANG - a USAF auxillary.

Chuck, WA7RAI

Theplanters95 wrote in message
...
Chuck,

If you check American History, you will see a lot of colonies were founded for
religious freedom. As a Baptist, one of our unique features is an emphasis on
religious liberty. We can agree to disagree, but true Chrisitanity seeks
liberty. Also, many of our presidents were Christian or religious. Religious
expression is found in our guiding documents, such as the Dec. of Independence,
and the Constitution.

Islam is not the same as Christianity. Not all religions are the same or teach
the same. Just remember that "theology" can be different, but ethics, such as
the Golden Rule, can be the same.Look at the core beliefs and you will see
major differences. One of the differences is that Islam practices conversion
by the sword. Some misguided Christians in the past have also practiced it,
but as you point out the Sermon on the Mount does not support it.

I am a Christian "fanatic" as it is my job and my passion. It has changed my
life for the better. I vote my Christian beliefs, irregardless of the
political party. And the Bible tells us to pray for the kings over us. Since
we do not have a king, but we can see a principle to pray for our government
leaders - All of them.

It is not lunacy to accept and practice religious belief (and I am talking in
general terms of all the world religions and sects). What is lunacy is to
misapply religion and use for personal gain, to control people or put people
down because of differing beliefs (For more religious discrimination, check out
Islam and Hinduism, and the Eastern Orthodox churches).

As you said, the foundation of American Values is liberty and that includes the
free practice of religious beliefs.

Indeed, which includess the liberty to not practice
a religion as well.

To consider Hinduism and Islam as similar, strongly
suggests a lack of understanding of either.

In regards to discrimination, one must understand
Hinduism believes in the law of Karma: "as ye sow
so shall ye reap". If one is born to a lowly state in
this life, it is a result of bad actions in a previous life,
thus one is deserving of their current state of
existence.

That said, I agree that true Christianity seeks liberty
(It is obvious that the Christ's teachings were liberal)
but the modern Christian Churches do not practice
true Christianity at all.

Allow me to elaborate:

Islam, Judaism, and modern Christianity all believe
in the god of Abraham. The Christ said he came to
"throw out the old law" - which can only be construed
as meaning the OT and the god of Abraham.

Christ's God is a God of love, compassion, brotherly
love, humility, judge not, and live and let live, etc...

In contrast, Abraham's god was violent, angry,
hateful, jealous, full of spite, and sought vengeance
by killing the unfaithful.

From this, it is easy to see why the world is so
violent and full of hate, given that the major religions
use such a horrific deity as an example for living
one's life.

Chuck, WA7RAI

On 28 Sep 2004 07:07:56 GMT, ospam
(Theplanters95) wrote:

Islam is not the same as Christianity.

Maybe, but you both pray to the same God and Islam recognises Jesus
as a prophet. Who's right?

Richard Clark wrote:
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 03:02:27 GMT, "Tom Donaly"
wrote:


This sounds like Pilgrim's Progress.


It is.

Hi Tom,

When common sense takes the back seat (or left to hitch-hike home),
fables have often risen in defense against the caprice of arbitrary
power. Literature is rich in regard to the travesty of logic that is
being passed off as the boon of a new age. I could have as easily
found material in the Canterbury Tales, The Decameron, The Song of
Roland, The Poem of the Cid.... The effete nabobs of negativism in
our Administration shrink in sharp contrast to the legendary heroes of
fighting cultures. Bush in his flight suit and helmet reminds me of
that pathetic picture of Dukakis in the Tank - what a matched pair!

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Hi Richard,
that's a good reason more people should take time
to read some of the old literatu to keep down the rate of
public hornswoggling of second-rate leaders.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

Jack Painter wrote:

"Richard Clark" wrote
/snip

fighting cultures. Bush in his flight suit and helmet reminds me of
that pathetic picture of Dukakis in the Tank - what a matched pair!

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC


Hi Richard, need we point out to you the absurdity of comparison between a
pretender waving from armor he never saw before in his life, to a qualifed
USAF jet fighter pilot who gets suited back up for a carrier landing? We can
find a lot of things to disagree with President Bush's policies about, but
one thing he is not, is a phony.

73,
Jack Painter
Virginia Beach VA


I suppose George was born with his Texas sharecropper accent, and
his good, honest, Republican smirk. Give us a break, Jack.
All politicians are phony through and through. Unfortunately,
in George's case, that's all he's got - phoniness.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

We do not pray to the same God. Islam is based on the blending of tribal
religions and misunderstandings of Christianity and Judism. The god of Islam
is more along the lines of the Arabic moon god, Allah, not the God of
Christianity.

Randy