"Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." wrote in message
...
Hi gb

I agree!

I also was not quite clear in my statements either.

We only daisy chain each rooms telephone circuits from a central
locatiion using loops in the pullboxes, having blank cover plates over
those pullboxes until it is decided which one will suffice for the
room furniture layout.

For computer we usually use the 75 ohm cable direct to the central
area for internet, and for internal networking the 6 wire cable is
used. It too runs from each room to the central area. If the
internal network only goes to rooms B and D only those two connections
are made in the central area.

In my house I have a shielded twisted pair going to each room, in each
room it is daisy chained to all possible outlets, at least 1 on each
wall, in some cases two on a couple of the walls. Unless it was used
at one time, there are no connections within the pull boxes.

However one decides to handle their wiring and extra's it's better to
have and not need than to not have at all.

Price is also a consideration! Running 6 telephone lines from a
central area to each room in the home can get quite expensive and
overly redundant for most home installations.

In addition, some cities charge 10 to 13 bucks extra on the permits
for each pullbox installed, even when those pullboxes are used for
non-permit required applications.
[snip]

TTUL
Gary

I would like to know which municipality or government entity these building
codes (permit charges) are coming from. Category 5e cable is very
inexpensive and the number of telecommunication outlets does not change --
whether daisy-chained or home-run.
Daisy chaining STP cable just introduces potential ground loops, since no
single ground potential point is established (grounding section of NEC and
EIA/TIA),

Luckily as long as the contractor does not staple the wire continuous along
the studs (just at the "rough-in" plate) .. these nuisances are relatively
easy to correct.

Who taught you this physical cabling method? It is also contrary to BICSI
certifications.

The National Electrical Code has been changed to reflect the EIA/TIA
standards for structured cabling and often takes precedence over local
codes, UNLESS the local code is more stringent or specific for
fire,health,safety reasons. For example, although ROMEX is permitted under
code, DuPage county (IL) as well as city of Chicago strictly forbid its
usage for electrical wiring. This stems from tragic fires and safety (e.g.
1959 elementary school fire in Chicago with large loss of life)

gb

Thanks for the link, that was very timely.

I am days away from closing on a second house, where my existing bedroom
shop will migrate to.
I've always greatly preferred homerunning everything, even back in my alarm
days, in the late 70's.
Much easier to debug, much fewer problems.

I will need to do phones, cable, cat5, and some misc control signals.
I have a wiring panel coming, and a bunch of 66 blocks

Brings back the good old days. Some of my resedential alarms filled a 4x8
sheet on the wall, and had dedicated rooms. Doubly or triply redundant
systems, with multiple sensing technologies, supervised wiring, phone and
wireless reporting. Those were the days.

"Dave VanHorn" wrote in message
...

Thanks for the link, that was very timely.

I am days away from closing on a second house, where my existing bedroom
shop will migrate to.
I've always greatly preferred homerunning everything, even back in my
alarm days, in the late 70's.
Much easier to debug, much fewer problems.

I will need to do phones, cable, cat5, and some misc control signals.
I have a wiring panel coming, and a bunch of 66 blocks

Brings back the good old days. Some of my resedential alarms filled a 4x8
sheet on the wall, and had dedicated rooms. Doubly or triply redundant
systems, with multiple sensing technologies, supervised wiring, phone and
wireless reporting. Those were the days.

Dave,

Here are some photos of a local install (not mine) for TC and phone ( 10
years old now)
http://www.schmitzhouse.com/images/Video%20Dist.jpg

I was not a fan of placing this block on a joist (who wants to look up all
day)
http://www.schmitzhouse.com/Johns_Electronics_03.htm

His house inverter construction takes the prize for labor
http://www.schmitzhouse.com/Johns_Electronics_02.htm

Greg
http://www.schmitzhouse.com/Johns_Electronics_03.htm

His house inverter construction takes the prize for labor
http://www.schmitzhouse.com/Johns_Electronics_02.htm

Good lord..

Greg
http://www.schmitzhouse.com/Johns_Electronics_03.htm

nice pix. I'll need to do some cleanup before I can start in earnest, it
used to be a rental, and the last tennant left "under duress". Still, it
appraises for 20% more than I'm paying.
I've been in a large bedroom for about 8 years now, but the bedroom seems to
have shrunk over time. That, and I air condition 10 months out of the year,
due to the surplus of electric heat from the equipment.

I'm thinking in terms of a 6" pvc into the attic, some of the cables I need
to pull thru are nearly an inch in diameter.

I wish I had some from my early days projects, but that would have been kind
of a bad idea... Not to mention disallowed in many cases.. The last one I
did professionally, was the office of the commander in chief, pacific fleet.
Fun doing wiring with an armed marine behind you all day.

There was a time that I put 600 phone lines into a residential basement in
wisconsin.

"Dave VanHorn" wrote in message
...

His house inverter construction takes the prize for labor
http://www.schmitzhouse.com/Johns_Electronics_02.htm

Good lord..

Nice pix. I'll need to do some cleanup before I can start in earnest, it
used to be a rental, and the last tennant left "under duress". Still, it
appraises for 20% more than I'm paying.
I've been in a large bedroom for about 8 years now, but the bedroom seems
to have shrunk over time. That, and I air condition 10 months out of the
year, due to the surplus of electric heat from the equipment.

I'm thinking in terms of a 6" pvc into the attic, some of the cables I
need to pull thru are nearly an inch in diameter.

I wish I had some from my early days projects, but that would have been
kind of a bad idea... Not to mention disallowed in many cases.. The last
one I did professionally, was the office of the commander in chief,
pacific fleet. Fun doing wiring with an armed marine behind you all day.

There was a time that I put 600 phone lines into a residential basement in
Wisconsin.


In commercial installs, (multi-story high rises) I used two 4" sleeves
(three sleeves on some of the lower floors) between wiring closets on the
floors.

For residential, I usually use two or three runs of 2 inch schedule 40 PVC
electrical conduit (schedule 80 when required) and one of two runs of 1 inch
PVC conduit. Fits with most stud wall (2x4) construction and 2" is the
largest knockout size for the flush mount enclosures (electrical or
Leviton's SMC)

I keep the RG-6 coax runs in separate conduit from the UTP runs.

I save the 1 inch runs for special marked cables (service runs from outdoor
demarcations, alarm, etc.) OR for fiber optic cabling.

Greg

In commercial installs, (multi-story high rises) I used two 4" sleeves
(three sleeves on some of the lower floors) between wiring closets on the
floors.

I'd bet few of those had any 1 inch hardline running around


I keep the RG-6 coax runs in separate conduit from the UTP runs.

Hmm.. Why? Shouldn't be any effect either way.

"Dave VanHorn" wrote in message
...

In commercial installs, (multi-story high rises) I used two 4" sleeves
(three sleeves on some of the lower floors) between wiring closets on the
floors.

I'd bet few of those had any 1 inch hardline running around

I keep the RG-6 coax runs in separate conduit from the UTP runs.

Hmm.. Why? Shouldn't be any effect either way.

Reduces problems (you never know who will follow you) with pulling future
RG-6 cables. Also the bend radius tolerances are different. IF UTP cables
are within same pathway the pulling crew has to be more gentle and careful.

Now if you have ever worked a large cabling installation ... you know that
words "gentle" and "careful" are a foreign language terms to many cabling
pulling crews.
Although when I have traveled with these crews .. they referred to the
airline baggage handlers (pre-9/11) as gorillas (former TV ad of a logistics
company).

gb

I keep the RG-6 coax runs in separate conduit from the UTP runs.

Hmm.. Why? Shouldn't be any effect either way.

Reduces problems (you never know who will follow you) with pulling future
RG-6 cables. Also the bend radius tolerances are different. IF UTP
cables are within same pathway the pulling crew has to be more gentle and
careful.

I see.. I never had to work with multiple different types in one pull.

Now if you have ever worked a large cabling installation ... you know that
words "gentle" and "careful" are a foreign language terms to many cabling
pulling crews.

VBG! Yes, pull till it parts, and then back off a little.

There was this time in the Ala-Moana building, when I was installing coax
for video from the first to the 25th floor. We decided to to it from the top
down, so somewhere along the way, threading the cables down the core, the
end cap came off. A couple floors later, when we went down to take it the
next level, we found the raw end sticking inside the cage that surrounds the
440VAC busbars. The other end of the cable was already connected, so that
would have been rather exciting on many levels!

Although when I have traveled with these crews .. they referred to the
airline baggage handlers (pre-9/11) as gorillas (former TV ad of a
logistics company).

I saw a UAL baggage handler slam a suitcase down on the belt so hard once,
that his feet left the ground. I rarely put anything more damagable than
clothes in my bags anymore.

Hi gb

St. Louis County, MO (and several municipalities within same) is who
charges additional permit fees for each pull box affixed to the studs
or otherwise properly mounted.

The wiring codes are vastly different for residential, commercial,
schools, hospitals, etc. I know of NO allowance for Romex in any
structure other than residential and even in residential usage,
conduit is still required in several areas.

If I recall correctly, regarding Romex A staple is required within 6
inches of a plastic pull box or 14 inches of a clamped metal pull box.
Some inspectors (whether code or not) will require a staple on ALL
wiring within 6 inches of the pull box, regardless of what kind of
wiring it is. Of course, you know how some inspectors are royal
PITA's.

It's been over 30 years since I worked my way up the ranks and roughly
10 years since I worked in the field. And even then I only worked in
residential. Everything since then was just predication work.

TTUL
Gary

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:20:50 -0500, Dave VanHorn hath writ:


I'm thinking in terms of a 6" pvc into the attic, some of the cables I need
to pull thru are nearly an inch in diameter.

Probably a thing that keeps your local fire marshal awake at night.

A vertical, non-fireproof chimney (and that's what 6" PVC is) running
vertical between floors will facilitate the growth of a small fire on
a lower floor into one of catastrophic proportions. Use metal conduit,
and stuff some coarse steel wool into the ends after you have run
the cables. You, you family, and the fire marshal will sleep better.

It's a Real Good Thing to even stuff something like steel wool into
overly large holes used to pass smallish cable through sill plates.

There was a time that I put 600 phone lines into a residential
basement in wisconsin.

I think I know the name of that spammer. :-)

Regards,
Jonesy
--
| Marvin L Jones | jonz | W3DHJ | linux
| Gunnison, Colorado | @ | Jonesy | OS/2 __
| 7,703' -- 2,345m | config.com | DM68mn SK