"James Wilson" wrote in message
. ..
What does BPL sound like? Can someone post a wav file somewhere so it can
be identified? Is it worse that the Pennsylvania QSO party?

The video on the ARRL website shows a couple of BPL variants ...
one that uses SS and another (test area 4) that uses OFDM.
They sound different.

Again, I cannot over-emphasize the importance of making SURE
that complaints of "BPL interference" are REALLY from BPL and
not some other source.

The LAST thing we need now is a bunch of people "crying wolf."
(Real complaints are one thing, crying wolf will only HURT us.)

73,
Carl - wk3c

www.arrl.org follow the links.

And yes its much worse than a contest. You wont even hear the contesters.

Dan/W4NTI

"James Wilson" wrote in message
. ..
What does BPL sound like? Can someone post a wav file somewhere so it can
be identified? Is it worse that the Pennsylvania QSO party?

BPL, at least for Michigan. I don't know when it will be an actual
reality,
as opposed to being in the planning stages, but will keep current with
their
project!

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:20:31 -0400, "Ryan, KC8PMX"
wrote:

Just found out today listening to a local, reputable radio station that Bay,
Saginaw and Midland Counties in Michigan are going to be "test sites" for
BPL, at least for Michigan. I don't know when it will be an actual reality,
as opposed to being in the planning stages, but will keep current with their
project!


Ryan KC8PMX
Midland, Michigan

What the "ham density" like in the Tri-Cities these days? Moved away
27 years ago (Bay City/Essexville) and not having been a ham then I
was out of touch with such things. I do know that it wasn't too high
a population density overall - perhaps they are targeting low ham
population areas in the testing so they can show a low interference
complaint volume?

I think Carl's on track in his post; the more credible the reports of
interference the more likely they will be taken seriously.

Howard

"Dick Carroll" wrote in message
...
Carl R. Stevenson wrote:

"James Wilson" wrote in message
. ..

What does BPL sound like? Can someone post a wav file somewhere so it
can
be identified? Is it worse that the Pennsylvania QSO party?


The video on the ARRL website shows a couple of BPL variants ...
one that uses SS and another (test area 4) that uses OFDM.
They sound different.

Again, I cannot over-emphasize the importance of making SURE
that complaints of "BPL interference" are REALLY from BPL and
not some other source.

The LAST thing we need now is a bunch of people "crying wolf."
(Real complaints are one thing, crying wolf will only HURT us.)

73,
Carl - wk3c



You raise an interesting question, Carl. How exactly should the
average ham go about proving that the RFI is indeed BPL, when the BPL
people say
"That's not us!'??


BPL has a unique "signature" (in the spectral/time domains) that can be
used to ID it.

Since there are different systems (SS from main.net and OFDM from Amperion,
for example) they have different signatures, which are distinct from other
sources
of interference and more traditional power line noise (of course the
utilities are
responsible for fixing the latter, too ... though their record is poor).

Carl - wk3c

I submit that what is needed is detailed information.
Who is doing the testing? I think that only Consumers Energy
distributes electric power in that area - they would be the people to
ask.
Is more than one system being tested?
When will the tests take place?
From where to where is the test link?

With details one can plan for before and after testing. Who can
sniff out the details?
73 Mac N8TT

--
J. Mc Laughlin - Michigan USA
Home:

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:38:09 GMT, "Carl R. Stevenson"
wrote:

Please see my previous message about the necessity of making SURE
that any complaints of "BPL interference" REALLY ARE BPL.

Unless I know it's BPL, it's just going to get reported as "noise".

Another way to look at it though ... If it doesn't sound like a normal
power line, it's gonna be BPL as there shouldn't be anything else on
there.

My understand is that this is only going to be in the Midland, Bay
City, and Saginaw areas with the possibility of Flint.

I still haven't seen anything specific as to locations and time
tables.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)


73,
Carl - wk3c

"Robert Casey" wrote in message
...
Jim Hampton wrote:

Exactly. Also, don't just complain to the utilities as they will still
deny
getting complaints. I wonder if they are hiring any of the lawyers from
the
tobacco companies LOL




A CC list for complaints:

*Utility company
*FCC (radio, telecom, and cable depts)
*ARRL
*your congresscritter
*your senator
*your state's PUC (public utilitues commission)
*The senators or congressmen who fund the FCC
*Various broadcasters, particularly those on TV
channels 2, 3, 4 (as these are below 80MHz, the
high end of BPL). Also any shortwave broadcasters
in the USA except VOA (they are not allowed to care
about reception inside the USA).
*NTIA (who we share the 5MHz band with).

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 23:27:27 -0400, a 32 bit process
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:56:50 GMT, "James Wilson"
wrote:

What does BPL sound like? Can someone post a wav file somewhere so it can
be identified? Is it worse that the Pennsylvania QSO party?

It almost sounds like a geiger counter, but a lot louder and the
clicking is quicker in pace.

That is a really good description of precipitation/snow static, but
the speed *usually* varies.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 00:18:29 GMT, Howard
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:20:31 -0400, "Ryan, KC8PMX"
wrote:

Just found out today listening to a local, reputable radio station that Bay,
Saginaw and Midland Counties in Michigan are going to be "test sites" for
BPL, at least for Michigan. I don't know when it will be an actual reality,
as opposed to being in the planning stages, but will keep current with their
project!


Ryan KC8PMX
Midland, Michigan

What the "ham density" like in the Tri-Cities these days? Moved away
27 years ago (Bay City/Essexville) and not having been a ham then I
was out of touch with such things. I do know that it wasn't too high
a population density overall - perhaps they are targeting low ham
population areas in the testing so they can show a low interference
complaint volume?

I think Carl's on track in his post; the more credible the reports of
interference the more likely they will be taken seriously.

If you count everyone it's probably well over several hundred in the
tri-county area.. I'd guess for active hams on HF and low VHF it's
well over 100. It's probably more than that as "I recall" Midland
club meetings run 30 to 40 although Ryan has a better memory than I
and besides...he goes to the meetings. I hit about two a year. As I
recall, Saginaw has a larger ham population. Bay City? They have an
active group, but I have no idea as to numbers.

There are a number of High power DXers and county hunters and some
relatively elaborate antenna systems.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)



Howard

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
om...

"Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message
...
Just found out today listening to a local, reputable radio station that
Bay,
Saginaw and Midland Counties in Michigan are going to be "test sites"
for
BPL, at least for Michigan. I don't know when it will be an actual
reality,
as opposed to being in the planning stages, but will keep current with
their
project!


Ryan KC8PMX
Midland, Michigan



Go to the sites. Check out the interference. If it's as bad as they say,
write the local commercial radio stations to say they are being interfered
with, write your congressman, and write the FCC.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE



The Bay, Saginaw and Midland clubs are going to work together on that......
Strength in numbers, at least locally.





--
Ryan, KC8PMX
FF1-FF2-MFR-(pending NREMT-B!)
--. --- -.. ... .- -. --. . .-.. ... .- .-. . ..-. .. .-. . ..-.
... --. .... - . .-. ...

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 23:27:27 -0400, a 32 bit process
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:56:50 GMT, "James Wilson"
wrote:

What does BPL sound like? Can someone post a wav file somewhere so it can
be identified? Is it worse that the Pennsylvania QSO party?

It almost sounds like a geiger counter, but a lot louder and the
clicking is quicker in pace.

After having gone to the ARRL site and listened to the examples, all I
can say is it sounds just like precipitation static and/or loose
connections. No way would I be able to identify one from the other.
I'm just going to have to complain every time I hear noise and make
recordings. If it's noisy enough to be a problem it should be fixed.

BTW, most of the links failed and instead I ended up hijacked to QSL
dot net. (they call it redirecting, but if I didn't select to go
there, I don't want to go there...I'll settle for the 404 screen
instead of giving some one advertizing points.)

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)