Power mount to raise it up when you're parked, otherwise leave it retracted,
lest a bridge give you a severe re-tuning incident.

"David G. Nagel" wrote in message
...
Reg Edwards wrote:

"SideBand" wrote in message
m...

Anyone out there know of any decent solution to getting 160M working in
a mobile? The application is a semi-truck. I've got the Iron Horses for
75, 40, 20, 15, and 10M, but I'd like to work something out for 160
meters that will work on the truck.

I know I'm going to take an efficiency hit, but you're doing that for
everything except 10M on a Semi anyway.. Just so I can get a signal out
there to be heard, in the off chance.

ANY suggestions or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

73 de AI8W, Chris

=============================

For design and performance of a 160 meter band vertical antenna, download
program HELICAL3 from website below. There are other loaded vertical
programs..

Use 1.5" or 2" diameter plastic pipe, with helical winding of thick
enamel
insulated wire, mounted on vehicle roof, as tall as possible, stayed,
with
short, top caapacitance tuning rod.

Range on 160m with a few hundred watts = 100 miles at noon on
groundwave.

1700 miles on very quiet, wiinter nights at midnight via F-layer.
----
.................................................. .........
Regards from Reg, G4FGQ
For Free Radio Design Software go to
http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp
.................................................. .........


Chris's problem is that he has to keep the tip of the antenna below about
13.5 feet from the ground to be legal with the various DOT's.

Dave WD9BDZ

Chris
Must the antenna also only mount on the tractor?
I just thought of a multi-turn loop, corners as far forward and back,
wide as possible, above the cab.
Use a tuner and balanced feed.
73
H.

H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H wrote:
"David G. Nagel" wrote in message
...

Reg Edwards wrote:


"SideBand" wrote in message
.com...


Anyone out there know of any decent solution to getting 160M working in
a mobile? The application is a semi-truck. I've got the Iron Horses for
75, 40, 20, 15, and 10M, but I'd like to work something out for 160
meters that will work on the truck.

I know I'm going to take an efficiency hit, but you're doing that for
everything except 10M on a Semi anyway.. Just so I can get a signal out
there to be heard, in the off chance.

ANY suggestions or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

73 de AI8W, Chris

=============================

For design and performance of a 160 meter band vertical antenna, download
program HELICAL3 from website below. There are other loaded vertical
programs..

Use 1.5" or 2" diameter plastic pipe, with helical winding of thick
enamel
insulated wire, mounted on vehicle roof, as tall as possible, stayed,
with
short, top caapacitance tuning rod.

Range on 160m with a few hundred watts = 100 miles at noon on
groundwave.

1700 miles on very quiet, wiinter nights at midnight via F-layer.
----
............................................... ............
Regards from Reg, G4FGQ
For Free Radio Design Software go to
http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp
............................................... ............



Chris's problem is that he has to keep the tip of the antenna below about
13.5 feet from the ground to be legal with the various DOT's.

Dave WD9BDZ


Chris
Must the antenna also only mount on the tractor?
I just thought of a multi-turn loop, corners as far forward and back,
wide as possible, above the cab.
Use a tuner and balanced feed.
73
H.


That's an idea, but most balanced tuners I know of are manual only, and
it's hard enough keeping a 70-foot long, 80,000 lb vehicle on the road
without trying to tune, too..

Thanks for the idea.

de AI8W, Chris

wrote:
http://moonrakerukltd.com/amateur/mobile_w.htm

7 feet/160 METRE HELICAL WHIP WITH 3/8 BASE, BANDWIDTH (15 kHz) £49.95



EEK! That's about $90.00 USD.. give or take...

Was hoping to build something...

de AI8W, Chris

Reg Edwards wrote:
"SideBand" wrote in message
m...

Anyone out there know of any decent solution to getting 160M working in
a mobile? The application is a semi-truck. I've got the Iron Horses for
75, 40, 20, 15, and 10M, but I'd like to work something out for 160
meters that will work on the truck.

I know I'm going to take an efficiency hit, but you're doing that for
everything except 10M on a Semi anyway.. Just so I can get a signal out
there to be heard, in the off chance.

ANY suggestions or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

73 de AI8W, Chris

=============================

For design and performance of a 160 meter band vertical antenna, download
program HELICAL3 from website below. There are other loaded vertical
programs..

Use 1.5" or 2" diameter plastic pipe, with helical winding of thick enamel
insulated wire, mounted on vehicle roof, as tall as possible, stayed, with
short, top caapacitance tuning rod.

Range on 160m with a few hundred watts = 100 miles at noon on groundwave.

1700 miles on very quiet, wiinter nights at midnight via F-layer.
----
.................................................. .........
Regards from Reg, G4FGQ
For Free Radio Design Software go to
http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp
.................................................. .........


Reg:

Thanks for this.. it'll help allot..

Question, though.. What should I put down for "earth electrode loss
resistance"? I'll be using the truck's body as the ground plane.

I'd just thought about doing this with a 2 foot (or so) 2 inch PVC pipe
with end caps, feed point at the one end of the PVC, and a 102" whip out
the other end. Now that I know this program exists, it's easier to think
about! Since the SS whips are tapered, what would be a good guess for
the diameter of it? Average it to 3mm? Or will it make that much of a
difference?

Thanks

de AI8W, Chris

"SideBand" wrote in message
m...
H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H wrote:
"David G. Nagel" wrote in message
...

Reg Edwards wrote:


"SideBand" wrote in message
y.com...


Anyone out there know of any decent solution to getting 160M working in
a mobile? The application is a semi-truck. I've got the Iron Horses for
75, 40, 20, 15, and 10M, but I'd like to work something out for 160
meters that will work on the truck.

I know I'm going to take an efficiency hit, but you're doing that for
everything except 10M on a Semi anyway.. Just so I can get a signal out
there to be heard, in the off chance.

ANY suggestions or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

73 de AI8W, Chris

=============================

For design and performance of a 160 meter band vertical antenna,
download
program HELICAL3 from website below. There are other loaded vertical
programs..

Use 1.5" or 2" diameter plastic pipe, with helical winding of thick
enamel
insulated wire, mounted on vehicle roof, as tall as possible, stayed,
with
short, top caapacitance tuning rod.

Range on 160m with a few hundred watts = 100 miles at noon on
groundwave.

1700 miles on very quiet, wiinter nights at midnight via F-layer.
----
.............................................. .............
Regards from Reg, G4FGQ
For Free Radio Design Software go to
http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp
.............................................. .............



Chris's problem is that he has to keep the tip of the antenna below about
13.5 feet from the ground to be legal with the various DOT's.

Dave WD9BDZ


Chris
Must the antenna also only mount on the tractor?
I just thought of a multi-turn loop, corners as far forward and back,
wide as possible, above the cab.
Use a tuner and balanced feed.
73
H.


That's an idea, but most balanced tuners I know of are manual only, and
it's hard enough keeping a 70-foot long, 80,000 lb vehicle on the road
without trying to tune, too..

Thanks for the idea.

de AI8W, Chris
You don't have to use a balanced tuner.
Terminate the loop into the truck body.
What auto tuners cover 160?
I never checked.
73 es gud luck
de NQ5H

H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H wrote:
"SideBand" wrote in message
m...

H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H wrote:

"David G. Nagel" wrote in message
...


Reg Edwards wrote:



"SideBand" wrote in message
gy.com...



Anyone out there know of any decent solution to getting 160M working in
a mobile? The application is a semi-truck. I've got the Iron Horses for
75, 40, 20, 15, and 10M, but I'd like to work something out for 160
meters that will work on the truck.

I know I'm going to take an efficiency hit, but you're doing that for
everything except 10M on a Semi anyway.. Just so I can get a signal out
there to be heard, in the off chance.

ANY suggestions or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

73 de AI8W, Chris

=============================

For design and performance of a 160 meter band vertical antenna,
download
program HELICAL3 from website below. There are other loaded vertical
programs..

Use 1.5" or 2" diameter plastic pipe, with helical winding of thick
enamel
insulated wire, mounted on vehicle roof, as tall as possible, stayed,
with
short, top caapacitance tuning rod.

Range on 160m with a few hundred watts = 100 miles at noon on
groundwave.

1700 miles on very quiet, wiinter nights at midnight via F-layer.
----
............................................. ..............
Regards from Reg, G4FGQ
For Free Radio Design Software go to
http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp
............................................. ..............



Chris's problem is that he has to keep the tip of the antenna below about
13.5 feet from the ground to be legal with the various DOT's.

Dave WD9BDZ


Chris
Must the antenna also only mount on the tractor?
I just thought of a multi-turn loop, corners as far forward and back,
wide as possible, above the cab.
Use a tuner and balanced feed.
73
H.



That's an idea, but most balanced tuners I know of are manual only, and
it's hard enough keeping a 70-foot long, 80,000 lb vehicle on the road
without trying to tune, too..

Thanks for the idea.

de AI8W, Chris

You don't have to use a balanced tuner.
Terminate the loop into the truck body.
What auto tuners cover 160?
I never checked.
73 es gud luck
de NQ5H


The AT-180 does.. so does Alinco's long wire tuner (which can be made to
interface to my 706Mk][G).. There are others, I'm sure It'd be nice to
just press a button and tune the sucker, that's for sure. But I'd also
like to do it for as few dollars as I can..

de AI8W, Chris

SideBand wrote:
Reg Edwards wrote:

"SideBand" wrote in message
m...

Anyone out there know of any decent solution to getting 160M working in
a mobile? The application is a semi-truck. I've got the Iron Horses for
75, 40, 20, 15, and 10M, but I'd like to work something out for 160
meters that will work on the truck.

I know I'm going to take an efficiency hit, but you're doing that for
everything except 10M on a Semi anyway.. Just so I can get a signal out
there to be heard, in the off chance.

ANY suggestions or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

73 de AI8W, Chris


=============================

For design and performance of a 160 meter band vertical antenna, download
program HELICAL3 from website below. There are other loaded vertical
programs..

Use 1.5" or 2" diameter plastic pipe, with helical winding of thick
enamel
insulated wire, mounted on vehicle roof, as tall as possible, stayed,
with
short, top caapacitance tuning rod.

Range on 160m with a few hundred watts = 100 miles at noon on
groundwave.

1700 miles on very quiet, wiinter nights at midnight via F-layer.
----
.................................................. .........
Regards from Reg, G4FGQ
For Free Radio Design Software go to
http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp
.................................................. .........


Reg:

Thanks for this.. it'll help allot..

Question, though.. What should I put down for "earth electrode loss
resistance"? I'll be using the truck's body as the ground plane.

I'd just thought about doing this with a 2 foot (or so) 2 inch PVC pipe
with end caps, feed point at the one end of the PVC, and a 102" whip out
the other end. Now that I know this program exists, it's easier to think
about! Since the SS whips are tapered, what would be a good guess for
the diameter of it? Average it to 3mm? Or will it make that much of a
difference?

Thanks

de AI8W, Chris

I know.. bad form to reply to your own post...

Got something here I think will work...

Resonant at 1.903
h=.61
d=510 (around 2", plus the insulation thickness.)
n=28
w=3
l=2.49
r=3
e=5 ohms

Makes for a 4.6kHz bandwidth (not wide, but I knew that going into
this...) with an efficiency of 2.4 %.. 16.2dB down from "ideal", and
50ohms (or close) with a 4.1uF cap.

Of course, this is assuming that the whip doesn't have to be
perpendicular to the centerline of the coil. If it can be parallel to
the coil (perpendicular to the winds), then this might work... I hope.

I'm gonna play with it some more, and see what I can dig up.. Maybe a
larger coil form will give a wider bandwidth?

de AI8W, Chris

SideBand wrote:
H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H wrote:
"SideBand" wrote in message
m...

Anyone out there know of any decent solution to getting 160M
working in a
mobile? The application is a semi-truck. I've got the Iron Horses
for 75,
40, 20, 15, and 10M, but I'd like to work something out for 160
meters
that will work on the truck.

Are the "iron horses" like hamsticks, but another brand? What I would
do is
get another one. Doesn't really matter what band, but I would get the
one
that is tallest physically, and uses a tall "stinger" whip. Then strip
it down,
and make a "plastic bugcatcher" with a new wider coil.
I use this type of antenna myself, except that mine is 80-10 with a
coil
than can be tapped for each band.
For a 160m whip with no hat, coil position will have a large influence
on
efficiency. So if say you used a junk 6 ft tall hamstick, I would wind
the
new coil at the top of that glass whip, and then clamp a tall "4-5 ft"
whip
to the top of that. Use a thin plastic form to wind the coil on. On
mine, the
the coil is wound on an appx 3 inch plastic tube, and is capped on each
end
with a plastic peanut butter jar cap. Melt a hole large enough for the
glass
whip to insert snugly up the middle of that coil form, and apply some
glue,
etc to hold it in place. For an 80m antenna built in this manner, you
would
need appx 80-85-90 turns or so, plus or minus...That is about a foots
worth of
winding on the 3 inch form, if the windings are made from an insulated
wire,
say 18 gauge or so.
The insulation will add some spacing to the windings, which is good..
My antenna is a 6 ft glass stick, with the coil at the 5 ft level. The
coil
is about a foot tall, end extends to the top of that glass mast. I use
a 5 ft
stinger whip, so my total length is 10 ft, or appx 3.3 m.
To use 160m on the same stick, your coil will be slightly more than 3
times
as long, to keep the same winding ratio. So if say on 80, the coil was
at the
5 ft level, on a 6 ft "1.5m" base mast stick, ".3 m coil length in
Reg's
vertload program", on 160m, the coil would be 1 meter long, and the
bottom
of the coil would drop to about the .8 m level, but still extend to the
top
of that glass mast. Thats a pretty tall coil, and will have some weight
with
all that wire..So I wouldn't get carried away with wire gauge...I'd use
16-18
gauge or so...
Anyway, thats about the cheapest way to make a 160m antenna that will
work
halfway well. It's a bugcatcher electrically...Of course, you will need
a
matching device..

To see a picture of mine, go to... http://web.wt.net/~nm5k/fd03-1.jpg
Thats about the only pix I can dig up that shows the whole antenna.
It's on the truck utility bed, about 4 ft off the ground at the base...
Even with the distant picture, you can make out the stinger whip at
top...
Will give you an idea what I'm talking about...
That one is 10 ft total. The glass whip was a 6 ft 20m hamstick, that
was
stripped of it's top coil. The stinger whip is 5 ft tall. You can see
the
homebrew coil at about the 5 ft level, extending to the top of the
glass
whip. The stinger is held on by two small hose clamps.
That's the 80m coil, which is nearly a foot tall. If you converted that
to
160m, the base of the coil would have to drop 2-3 ft, in order to have
the top
of the coil at the top of the glass stick.




I know I'm going to take an efficiency hit, but you're doing that
for
everything except 10M on a Semi anyway.. Just so I can get a signal
out
there to be heard, in the off chance.

Yep...Using vertload, my antenna has about a 14.7 % efficiency on 80m,
using
6 ohms as the ground loss number...On 160m, using the described 160m
coil, and
same overall length, ground loss number, efficiency would drop to
about 2.07 %
... But, thats the way the ball rolls....It will still work...
I've worked many 160m mobiles..
A small amp would help...
I think one of the "hamstick" type companies makes a 160m "hamstick",
if you
don't feel like making one...
One thing to remember....On 160m, ground losses will almost certainly
overshadow
coil losses, so trying to make a super duper efficient coil, with real
thick
wire, is generally a waste of time. Always use the longest stinger you
can get
away with..I also have a solid 3 ft base mast that I can add, and make
the
antenna longer "13 ft" and more efficient. In that case, the coil is
8ft up,
instead of 5 ft. Efficiency jumps up a good bit. It's not the prettiest
thing,
but it works real well on all bands 80-10. And the best part was it
didn't cost
me a dime. There is a black wire that taps the coil, but you can't
really see
it in that picture. I also would like to make a 160m antenna, and might
just
make me one like I described. I'll probably have a stand alone 160m
antenna,
and go back to that one, on the other bands. I have a quick disconnect.
MK

BTW, if you are curious...That truck is my 68 F-250...It's kinda old...
I now also have yet another old ford..."74 F-100" It's got a camper
also...
I'm trying to decide where to mount the antenna on it...Not as easy as
that 68.
...I'll probably have to install a ball mount on the cab on the other
truck...
I have a thing about old trucks...Kind of an illness...:/ I may
eventually swap
one out, and buy another small car...Can't decide which one I like best
though..
That 68 in the pix has nearly been rebuilt mechanically...New engine,
front end,
etc, etc, etc...Needs to be repainted though... But the 74 is a bit
smoother,
being a 1/2 ton, instead of a 3/4 like the 68..Maybe better for long
trips.
The camper is a bit bigger and about a ft taller on the 74 also...
Yes, we have newer cars too, but I don't drive them too much
myself...:/
I like my "war wagons". People stay out of my way...

Mark:

Great idea...

In fact, the semi I'm planning to put this on is a '97 Ford LTLA9000.
Only 872,722 miles on it. Just had the motor rebuilt, so it'll be good
for at least another half a million. This was my first truck. I'm
planning on keeping it until I retire, then turning it into a motor home.

The vertload program is quite interesting. It shows I can make an
antenna with twice the efficiency of a base loaded antenna with similar
dimensions, and I can tailor it to the truck for where I can mount it,
and all of a sudden new mounting possibilities are popping up.

I took the fairings off the truck awhile ago, and the bolt holes on the
fuel tank straps are still there for the fairings. It would be quite
simple to weld up some angle-iron to make a mount for this, and keep the
feed point low to the ground, so I can have a longer whip (higher
efficiency! Yay!) on top of the load coil.

What I've got figured here is a 2 foot long, 1 inch OD copper "mast", a
1 meter (3 feet, 3 inches), 3 inch OD coil form, and a 78 3/4" whip,
which should be resonant close to 1.903 with a 3.81% efficiency. Total
overall height of the antenna is 3.61M, or 142 1/8", or 11' 10 1/8",
which leaves me a little over a foot and a half to play with. Good deal.

Reg's vertload program (THANKS REG!) doesn't show a 2:1 SWR bandwidth,
so I'll have to try it to see what the bandwidth will be. I really only
need it to handle the width of an SSB signal (3 kHz), with some "wiggle
room" to move up or down a few KC's for an SSB net I want to check in to
during the winter nights. I have an AT-180 tuner I can use to match it
down to "usable".

I'm going to play with the numbers a bit to see where I can move things
around to get even better efficiency, then I'm going to build the sucker
when I have it where I want it.

The really good news here is that I can build this thing for just a
little over $20.00, which is exactly where I want it to be. Of course, I
won't get around to building it until this summer, but it'll be ready
for next winter's nets..

I just wish Reg's program would show a 2:1 SWR bandwidth (or a 3dB point
bandwidth!).. that would be a godsend to those of us who would like to
build some of these for SSB use.

Just thought I'd share.. This is cool. If I'd known stuff like this was
out there, I would have been playing with mobile antenna building a long
time ago.

73 de AI8W, Chris

wrote:
SideBand wrote:

H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H wrote:

"SideBand" wrote in message
.com...


Anyone out there know of any decent solution to getting 160M

working in a

mobile? The application is a semi-truck. I've got the Iron Horses

for 75,

40, 20, 15, and 10M, but I'd like to work something out for 160

meters

that will work on the truck.


Are the "iron horses" like hamsticks, but another brand? What I would
do is
get another one. Doesn't really matter what band, but I would get the
one
that is tallest physically, and uses a tall "stinger" whip. Then strip
it down,
and make a "plastic bugcatcher" with a new wider coil.
I use this type of antenna myself, except that mine is 80-10 with a
coil
than can be tapped for each band.
For a 160m whip with no hat, coil position will have a large influence
on
efficiency. So if say you used a junk 6 ft tall hamstick, I would wind
the
new coil at the top of that glass whip, and then clamp a tall "4-5 ft"
whip
to the top of that. Use a thin plastic form to wind the coil on. On
mine, the
the coil is wound on an appx 3 inch plastic tube, and is capped on each
end
with a plastic peanut butter jar cap. Melt a hole large enough for the
glass
whip to insert snugly up the middle of that coil form, and apply some
glue,
etc to hold it in place. For an 80m antenna built in this manner, you
would
need appx 80-85-90 turns or so, plus or minus...That is about a foots
worth of
winding on the 3 inch form, if the windings are made from an insulated
wire,
say 18 gauge or so.
The insulation will add some spacing to the windings, which is good..
My antenna is a 6 ft glass stick, with the coil at the 5 ft level. The
coil
is about a foot tall, end extends to the top of that glass mast. I use
a 5 ft
stinger whip, so my total length is 10 ft, or appx 3.3 m.
To use 160m on the same stick, your coil will be slightly more than 3
times
as long, to keep the same winding ratio. So if say on 80, the coil was
at the
5 ft level, on a 6 ft "1.5m" base mast stick, ".3 m coil length in
Reg's
vertload program", on 160m, the coil would be 1 meter long, and the
bottom
of the coil would drop to about the .8 m level, but still extend to the
top
of that glass mast. Thats a pretty tall coil, and will have some weight
with
all that wire..So I wouldn't get carried away with wire gauge...I'd use
16-18
gauge or so...
Anyway, thats about the cheapest way to make a 160m antenna that will
work
halfway well. It's a bugcatcher electrically...Of course, you will need
a
matching device..

To see a picture of mine, go to... http://web.wt.net/~nm5k/fd03-1.jpg
Thats about the only pix I can dig up that shows the whole antenna.
It's on the truck utility bed, about 4 ft off the ground at the base...
Even with the distant picture, you can make out the stinger whip at
top...
Will give you an idea what I'm talking about...
That one is 10 ft total. The glass whip was a 6 ft 20m hamstick, that
was
stripped of it's top coil. The stinger whip is 5 ft tall. You can see
the
homebrew coil at about the 5 ft level, extending to the top of the
glass
whip. The stinger is held on by two small hose clamps.
That's the 80m coil, which is nearly a foot tall. If you converted that
to
160m, the base of the coil would have to drop 2-3 ft, in order to have
the top
of the coil at the top of the glass stick.




I know I'm going to take an efficiency hit, but you're doing that

for

everything except 10M on a Semi anyway.. Just so I can get a signal

out

there to be heard, in the off chance.


Yep...Using vertload, my antenna has about a 14.7 % efficiency on 80m,
using
6 ohms as the ground loss number...On 160m, using the described 160m
coil, and
same overall length, ground loss number, efficiency would drop to
about 2.07 %
.. But, thats the way the ball rolls....It will still work...
I've worked many 160m mobiles..
A small amp would help...
I think one of the "hamstick" type companies makes a 160m "hamstick",
if you
don't feel like making one...
One thing to remember....On 160m, ground losses will almost certainly
overshadow
coil losses, so trying to make a super duper efficient coil, with real
thick
wire, is generally a waste of time. Always use the longest stinger you
can get
away with..I also have a solid 3 ft base mast that I can add, and make
the
antenna longer "13 ft" and more efficient. In that case, the coil is
8ft up,
instead of 5 ft. Efficiency jumps up a good bit. It's not the prettiest
thing,
but it works real well on all bands 80-10. And the best part was it
didn't cost
me a dime. There is a black wire that taps the coil, but you can't
really see
it in that picture. I also would like to make a 160m antenna, and might
just
make me one like I described. I'll probably have a stand alone 160m
antenna,
and go back to that one, on the other bands. I have a quick disconnect.
MK

BTW, if you are curious...That truck is my 68 F-250...It's kinda old...
I now also have yet another old ford..."74 F-100" It's got a camper
also...
I'm trying to decide where to mount the antenna on it...Not as easy as
that 68.
..I'll probably have to install a ball mount on the cab on the other
truck...
I have a thing about old trucks...Kind of an illness...:/ I may
eventually swap
one out, and buy another small car...Can't decide which one I like best
though..
That 68 in the pix has nearly been rebuilt mechanically...New engine,
front end,
etc, etc, etc...Needs to be repainted though... But the 74 is a bit
smoother,
being a 1/2 ton, instead of a 3/4 like the 68..Maybe better for long
trips.
The camper is a bit bigger and about a ft taller on the 74 also...
Yes, we have newer cars too, but I don't drive them too much
myself...:/
I like my "war wagons". People stay out of my way...