Here is a very interesting article from SwissInfo.

A zeppelin will replace all of the terrestrial mobile phone antennas in
Switzerland - if a Swiss inventor has his way.

Should Kamal Alavi's project for the high-tech airship take wing, the
worlds of mobile telephony and data transmission would be turned on
their heads.



Not only would the technology, called High Altitude Platform Systems
(Haps), make the current 1,000 earth-bound antennas redundant, it would
drastically reduce radiation.

A Swiss of Iranian extraction, Alavi is a former aerospace engineer
turned entrepreneur who heads his own firm, Stratxx. Together with a
team of 50 scientists, he is preparing a 2007 test run of the airship,
which he has named the "X station".

Thanks to a GPS steering system developed by the Swiss Federal
Institute of Technology, the 60-meter long helium-filled balloon will
remain stationary at 21 kilometres above the earth.

A small-unmanned aircraft outfitted with a mobile phone antenna and
other devices for transmitting digital data will be attached to the
zeppelin. The X station has been equipped with giant propellers to help
counter the almost constant buffeting from the wind.

Solar panels will supply the energy to propel the airplane and antenna.
Underneath will be a platform containing technical equipment, conceived
by Ruag, the large Swiss aerospace concern.

Radiation

"Transmitting on earth causes lots of radiation, because you have to
penetrate countless buildings," Alavi says, arguing that phone
connections are more reliable when transmitted from above because the
signals are unobstructed by manmade or natural objects.

And "spot beam" antennas developed at Lausanne will allow radiation to
be adjusted according to usage, regions with little activity receiving
relatively less.

But Switzerland's largest mobile telephone operator, Swisscom believes
not all of the technological hurdles have been overcome.

"This project cannot replace the present mobile telephone system,"
spokesman Sepp Huber told swissinfo.

The X station would not be limited to forwarding mobile telephone
signals, but would also be capable of handling the radio, television
and internet needs of entire nations.

Alavi believes that his project is also economical. He estimates that a
Haps airship will cost no more than SFr40 million ($32 million).

In comparison, a single mobile phone antenna costs about SFr300,000
while a communications satellite starts at SFr600 million.

Alavi says the X stations are conceived to be low maintenance. In the
event of a defect, the aircraft will be decoupled from the airship and
returned to earth, much like a mini-space shuttle.

The project is now in a key phase. Solar cells are being tested at an
altitude of 30 kilometres, and final preparations are underway for the
launch of the first airship into the stratosphere. The entire system
should be ready for testing a year from now.

The potential is enormous if Stratxx manages to be the first to fly
with this new technology. About 20 Haps would be required to cover
Europe alone while Africa would need twice as many.

swissinfo, Etienne Strebel


So, has anyone or group tried to get a couple ham antennas on this
thing???


Bill

http://MarklinBuyer.com
I buy Marklin model trains

There are a couple of countries in Central and South America which do
essentially the same thing with a central mountain. However,
mountains are seldom grounded due to extreme weather conditions.


--
Alan
WA4SCA

One of the basic principles of the cellular telephone system is that the
same parts of the spectrum can be used by many phones at once. This is
possible only because each cell covers only a limited area. High spots
which cover huge areas are pretty common -- just look at typical
repeater or TV/FM broadcasting locations. But you won't find cell phone
installations there except in very sparsely populated areas, and for
very good reason -- there simply isn't anywhere near enough spectrum
space available to accommodate all the users within range.

Figuring out how to cram a couple of orders of magnitude more users into
the same already-packed and efficiently used spectrum must be one of
those "technological hurdles" yet to be overcome.

But in the meantime, I'm sure Alavi is living quite well off the money
from the naive investors which never seem to be in short supply.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Roy Lewallen wrote:
One of the basic principles of the cellular telephone system is that the
same parts of the spectrum can be used by many phones at once. This is
possible only because each cell covers only a limited area. High spots
which cover huge areas are pretty common -- just look at typical
repeater or TV/FM broadcasting locations. But you won't find cell phone
installations there except in very sparsely populated areas, and for
very good reason -- there simply isn't anywhere near enough spectrum
space available to accommodate all the users within range.

Figuring out how to cram a couple of orders of magnitude more users into
the same already-packed and efficiently used spectrum must be one of
those "technological hurdles" yet to be overcome.

But in the meantime, I'm sure Alavi is living quite well off the money
from the naive investors which never seem to be in short supply.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Whilst the above comments are very well made I must say that there are
some good ideas with this whole HAP thing. A lot of my lecturers and
professors are involved with a big chunk of the research into this
venture, and for high speed broadband data access the idea is good. The
points made about cellular systems are true, but it is my understanding
that in densely populated areas there would be more HAPs up in the air,
each could have multiple cells potentially...

Having said that I do get the impression from some research seminars
I've been to on the subject, that there is still a lot of work to be
done before the proposal can be realised to it's full potential, but I
do think the principle is sound.

--
73, Iain M0PCB/P

I think the electronics problems are trivial compared with the matter
of maintaining the platform at altitude and geosynchronous.

There is not much air for a lighter than air ship to float in at that
altitude. A quick estimate of 21km is about 65,000 feet. It would seem
to me that a platform that could hover at that altitude keeping pace
with the earths rotation could also circumnavigate the earth in 24
hours in the direction of the rotation.

The energy required to maintain that hover is going to be substantial.
Forget filling the Zep with Hydrogen. Even if you can devise a scheme
to fill an evelope with nothing (vacuum) It is going to be monstrous
in size to displace a hundred kilo's or so.

Count me out on the project...
John W8CCW

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 23:29:01 +0100, Iain Kelly
wrote:



Whilst the above comments are very well made I must say that there are
some good ideas with this whole HAP thing. A lot of my lecturers and
professors are involved with a big chunk of the research into this
venture, and for high speed broadband data access the idea is good. The
points made about cellular systems are true, but it is my understanding
that in densely populated areas there would be more HAPs up in the air,
each could have multiple cells potentially...

Having said that I do get the impression from some research seminars
I've been to on the subject, that there is still a lot of work to be
done before the proposal can be realised to it's full potential, but I
do think the principle is sound.
John Ferrell W8CCW

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 23:29:01 +0100, Iain Kelly
wrote:

Whilst the above comments are very well made I must say that there are
some good ideas with this whole HAP thing. A lot of my lecturers and
professors are involved with a big chunk of the research into this
venture,

Hi Ian,

This is called "conflict of interest," which discounts those same
lecturers' and professors' credentials.

and for high speed broadband data access the idea is good. The
points made about cellular systems are true, but it is my understanding
that in densely populated areas there would be more HAPs up in the air,
each could have multiple cells potentially...

You've missed the point Roy made. Adding connections (more HAPs) does
not add more bandwidth. Those extra HAPs will be competing for the
same (now diminishing by proportion) spectrum.

Having said that I do get the impression from some research seminars
I've been to on the subject, that there is still a lot of work to be
done before the proposal can be realised to it's full potential, but I
do think the principle is sound.

When there's existing hardware (after all, no one is telling the
consumers to throw away their phones and buy HAP versions), and
Hindenberg technology is a century old; then any proviso "there is
still a lot of work to be done" translates into SEND MORE MONEY - a
message tape with an infinite loop.

Ask researcher1: "can I float a balloon?"
researcher1: "Sure, no problem."

Ask researcher2: "can I transmit and receive from a height?"
researcher2: "Sure, no problem."

Ask researcher3: "can I find a stabilizing platform?"
researcher3: "Sure, no problem."

Ask researcher4: "can more connections serve more customers?"
researcher4: "Sure, no problem."

The sum is not equal to the whole:
Ask customers: "can you still hear me?"
customers: "What the ****! My line is dead."

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

John Ferrell wrote:
I think the electronics problems are trivial compared with the matter
of maintaining the platform at altitude and geosynchronous.

There is not much air for a lighter than air ship to float in at that
altitude. A quick estimate of 21km is about 65,000 feet. It would seem
to me that a platform that could hover at that altitude keeping pace
with the earths rotation could also circumnavigate the earth in 24
hours in the direction of the rotation.

The energy required to maintain that hover is going to be substantial.
Forget filling the Zep with Hydrogen. Even if you can devise a scheme
to fill an evelope with nothing (vacuum) It is going to be monstrous
in size to displace a hundred kilo's or so.

Count me out on the project...
John W8CCW

I agree, I've not actually seen any of the research about the platforms
themselves, but as well as the airships there are also some unmanned
solar powered wing planes have been tested too I think.

I'm sceptical myself, but it will be very interesting to see if it ever
takes off! (no pun intended ;-))

--
73, Iain M0PCB/P

Richard Clark wrote:
Hi Ian,

This is called "conflict of interest," which discounts those same
lecturers' and professors' credentials.

Well, I for one am not going to instantly take the view that my
lecturers' credentials are not solid. Of course they're going to put
positive spin on it, mainly because for their part (physical layer and
comms protocol stuff) they've been successful so far. Trials in Sweden
were a total success, albeit on a smaller scale.

I'm still not convinced that the idea will ever actually be realised,
but nevertheless it's still a very interesting one!

You've missed the point Roy made. Adding connections (more HAPs) does
not add more bandwidth. Those extra HAPs will be competing for the
same (now diminishing by proportion) spectrum.

That'd be why there is ongoing research into the various multiplexing
techniques so many users can use the same piece of spectrum and not
cause *too much* interference with each other. Using spreading codes etc
the other signals just appear as a little bit of extra background noise
so I am led to believe. (I will get the full story on this sort of stuff
in the next academic year).

Surely though even for broadband internet home users will not need to
exceed 10Mbps speeds, what would be the point? Who needs to get a web
page served a second faster, bearing in mind bandwidth limits at the
server end as well as the end user connection. The 3rd generation
mobiles were not looking to exceed 5Mbps per handset (which is a hell of
a lot of data) at the very most and that is more than capable of
streaming video etc (albeit at lower resolutions for the handsets).

The bandwidth requirements for cellular voice calls is minimal in
comparison to data requirements. A phone line is only 64kbps, and
cellular (gsm) data rates are less than that even and still provide good
(enough) voice reproduction!

When there's existing hardware (after all, no one is telling the
consumers to throw away their phones and buy HAP versions), and
Hindenberg technology is a century old; then any proviso "there is
still a lot of work to be done" translates into SEND MORE MONEY - a
message tape with an infinite loop.

Basically as I understand it they'd be looking to use current Wi-Fi,
Wi-Max and GSM technologies etc so why would there be a requirement to
change hardware?

The only thing that would need changing with the broadband data
downlinks to serve internet would be gateways with directional antennae
to serve buildings etc.

Ask researcher1: "can I float a balloon?"
researcher1: "Sure, no problem."

Ask researcher2: "can I transmit and receive from a height?"
researcher2: "Sure, no problem."

Ask researcher3: "can I find a stabilizing platform?"
researcher3: "Sure, no problem."

Ask researcher4: "can more connections serve more customers?"
researcher4: "Sure, no problem."

The sum is not equal to the whole:
Ask customers: "can you still hear me?"
customers: "What the ****! My line is dead."

This is the same with any new technology! Just look at 3G services in
the UK, it's taken them a while to get network coverage any where near
comparable to the already existing 2 and 2.5G network infrastructure.

Do you suggest that we just give up carrying out research into this sort
of thing? Maybe we should have stuck with the original optical telegraph
rather than develop methods of signalling using electricity...

I have no personal/pecuniary connections with this project, as I'm only
an undergrad student, but I think to dismiss it out of hand as a non
starter is a bit harsh. It does have the potential to work, whether it
ever gets deployed is another matter...

--
73, Iain M0PCB/P