Hi, Vacuumlanders,
I'm refurbishing the Bendix radios and intercom ("interphone") from a
WW2 Lancaster bomber that we are rebuilding for static display at the
Canadian Air & Space museum, Toronto.
See http://casmuseum.org/avro_683_lancaster_x.shtml
I have the interphone amplifier working on the bench using a Heathkit
variable, regulated B+ supply and a 26 volt supply for the heaters
(there are internal ww resistors to get about 6.3 volts on each
tube.) The tubes are one 6V6GT and one 6SJ7. I'd appreciate the
opinion of the experts on the 6SJ7 operating point found in this unit.
The plate load resistor is 470 Kohms, the cathode bias resistor is 470
ohms, the screen is fed from the tap between an 82 Kohms to B+ and a
10 Kohms to cathode (a 2 mA drain) and sits at +22.5 VDC to chassis
(ground.)
For an external 220 VDC applied, the B+ rail for the 6SJ7 is about 185
VDC (after a B+ RC filter.) The plate voltage is only +30 VDC for a
0.33 mA plate current. Cathode bias is 1.0 VDC. While this tube is
use as a low-signal microphone amplifier, the plate and screen
voltages and plate current seem rather low to me. While the gain,
given by (gm x RP) x RL/(RP + RL) seems good enough (not measured
other than by a "wet finger"!) and RL is certainly nice and high, does
the tube gain (gm x RP) hold up under such low current and voltage?
This operating point is so low down on the left of the tube
characteristic curves that its far below the knee of the pentode
family of curves, where they all combine, so you can't read it.
6SJ7 tube data (for normal operating points): RP = 700 Kohm, gm =
1.575 mA/volt, Thus, mu =~ 1100
In the spirit of "museum quality" refurbishing, regardless of any
better design, I certainly do not propose to change the values!
Thanks for all replies.
Cheers,
Roger
PS. I've also cross-posted in "rec.audio.tubes".

On Mar 17, 6:37*pm, Engineer wrote:
Hi, Vacuumlanders,
I'm refurbishing the Bendix radios and intercom ("interphone") from a
WW2 Lancaster bomber that we are rebuilding for static display at the
Canadian Air & Space museum, Toronto.
See *http://casmuseum.org/avro_683_lancaster_x.shtml
I have the interphone amplifier working on the bench using a Heathkit
variable, regulated B+ supply and a 26 volt supply for the heaters
(there are internal ww resistors to get about 6.3 volts on each
tube.) *The tubes are one 6V6GT and one 6SJ7. I'd appreciate the
opinion of the experts on the 6SJ7 operating point found in this unit.
The plate load resistor is 470 Kohms, the cathode bias resistor is 470
ohms, the screen is fed from the tap between an 82 Kohms to B+ and a
10 Kohms to cathode (a 2 mA drain) and sits at +22.5 VDC to chassis
(ground.)
For an external 220 VDC applied, the B+ rail for the 6SJ7 is about 185
VDC (after a B+ RC filter.) The plate voltage is only +30 VDC for a
0.33 mA plate current. *Cathode bias is 1.0 VDC. *While this tube is
use as a low-signal microphone amplifier, the plate and screen
voltages and plate current seem rather low to me. While the gain,
given by (gm x RP) x RL/(RP + RL) seems good *enough (not measured
other than by a "wet finger"!) and RL is certainly nice and high, does
the tube gain (gm x RP) hold up under such low current and voltage?
This operating point is so low down on the left of the tube
characteristic curves that its far below the knee of the pentode
family of curves, where they all combine, so you can't read it.
6SJ7 tube data (for normal operating points): RP = 700 Kohm, gm =
1.575 mA/volt, Thus, mu =~ 1100
In the spirit of "museum quality" refurbishing, regardless of any
better design, I certainly do not propose to change the values!
Thanks for all replies.
Cheers,
Roger
PS. *I've also cross-posted in "rec.audio.tubes".

Interesting. hadn't realized that perhaps later versions of the
Lanchester, perhaps those built in Canada? had North American (Bendix)
electronics. Always thought that they had British style electronics
based on the T1154 plus R1155 etc. Plus the later H2S and either
British or US versions of the IFF with their explosive charges in a
tube in the middle.
I do recall some USA Bendix 'crew intercom' units on sale war
surplus.Had a bright aluminum case IIRC; whereas British stuff was
generally black (sometimes black crackle?). Two tubes, but I thought
one of them was 28D7 or something and the other was a 6.3 volt tube
such as the 6SJ7 mentioned with a dropping resistor for it's heater.
Was also under impression those units operated totally at 28 volts,
both for plate and heater voltage. probably a different unit?
Another note; later in WWII both USA and UK aircraft probably both
used SCR522, or equivalent VHF radios?

On Mar 18, 12:01*pm, stan wrote:
On Mar 17, 6:37*pm, Engineer wrote:





Hi, Vacuumlanders,
I'm refurbishing the Bendix radios and intercom ("interphone") from a
WW2 Lancaster bomber that we are rebuilding for static display at the
Canadian Air & Space museum, Toronto.
See *http://casmuseum.org/avro_683_lancaster_x.shtml
I have the interphone amplifier working on the bench using a Heathkit
variable, regulated B+ supply and a 26 volt supply for the heaters
(there are internal ww resistors to get about 6.3 volts on each
tube.) *The tubes are one 6V6GT and one 6SJ7. I'd appreciate the
opinion of the experts on the 6SJ7 operating point found in this unit.
The plate load resistor is 470 Kohms, the cathode bias resistor is 470
ohms, the screen is fed from the tap between an 82 Kohms to B+ and a
10 Kohms to cathode (a 2 mA drain) and sits at +22.5 VDC to chassis
(ground.)
For an external 220 VDC applied, the B+ rail for the 6SJ7 is about 185
VDC (after a B+ RC filter.) The plate voltage is only +30 VDC for a
0.33 mA plate current. *Cathode bias is 1.0 VDC. *While this tube is
use as a low-signal microphone amplifier, the plate and screen
voltages and plate current seem rather low to me. While the gain,
given by (gm x RP) x RL/(RP + RL) seems good *enough (not measured
other than by a "wet finger"!) and RL is certainly nice and high, does
the tube gain (gm x RP) hold up under such low current and voltage?
This operating point is so low down on the left of the tube
characteristic curves that its far below the knee of the pentode
family of curves, where they all combine, so you can't read it.
6SJ7 tube data (for normal operating points): RP = 700 Kohm, gm =
1.575 mA/volt, Thus, mu =~ 1100
In the spirit of "museum quality" refurbishing, regardless of any
better design, I certainly do not propose to change the values!
Thanks for all replies.
Cheers,
Roger
PS. *I've also cross-posted in "rec.audio.tubes".

Interesting. hadn't realized that perhaps later versions of the
Lanchester, perhaps those built in Canada? had North American (Bendix)
electronics. Always thought that they had British style electronics
based on the T1154 plus R1155 etc. Plus the later H2S and either
British or US versions of the IFF with their explosive charges in a
tube in the middle.
I do recall some USA Bendix 'crew intercom' units on sale war
surplus.Had a bright aluminum case IIRC; whereas British stuff was
generally black (sometimes black crackle?). Two tubes, but I thought
one of them was 28D7 or something and the other was a 6.3 volt tube
such as the 6SJ7 mentioned with a dropping resistor for it's heater.
Was also under impression those units operated totally at 28 volts,
both for plate and heater voltage. probably a different unit?
Another note; later in WWII both USA and UK aircraft probably both
used SCR522, or equivalent VHF radios?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks for the info.
BTW, it's "Lancaster", (you have a typo!) "Lanchester" was the classic
car.
The Canadian Lancs had Bendix receivers and interphone equipment, the
British had the 1155 Rx and 1154 Tx, as you said (I don't know what
make of interphone equipment.) Our Rx is a Bendix RA-10DB. We found a
NOS one on eBay, looks great but not yet powered up - that's the next
project. Our Tx is a bendix TA-12, also not yet recommissioned.
We have two types of interphone stations (remote units) to hand, both
Bendix. One is bright metal and one is dark grey crackle enamel.
Re. aircraft supply voltage: the Canadian Lancaster had a 28 VDC
supply. The Interphone amplifier unit has its own integral dynamotor
for heater and B+ (we're not using it to avoid wear, so P/S's will be
external.) As you know, the 6V6 tube takes 0.45 A for the heater, the
6SJ7 takes 0.3 A. These two heaters are in series with the 6SJ7
heater bypassed by a 40 ohm ww resistor to take the nominal extra 0.15
A, and a 30 ohm ww in series to drop the rest of the voltage. But
that only adds up to 26 volts, which is what I am using. Even then
the 6V6 heater runs a bit low and the 6SJ7 a bit high - must be tube
dependent (not checked yet.) Not sure if the original dynamotor gave
26 or 28 volts to the heaters.
Cheers,
Roger

"Engineer" wrote in message
...
On Mar 18, 12:01 pm, stan wrote:
On Mar 17, 6:37 pm, Engineer wrote:





Hi, Vacuumlanders,
I'm refurbishing the Bendix radios and intercom ("interphone") from a
WW2 Lancaster bomber that we are rebuilding for static display at the
Canadian Air & Space museum, Toronto.
See http://casmuseum.org/avro_683_lancaster_x.shtml
I have the interphone amplifier working on the bench using a Heathkit
variable, regulated B+ supply and a 26 volt supply for the heaters
(there are internal ww resistors to get about 6.3 volts on each
tube.) The tubes are one 6V6GT and one 6SJ7. I'd appreciate the
opinion of the experts on the 6SJ7 operating point found in this unit.
The plate load resistor is 470 Kohms, the cathode bias resistor is 470
ohms, the screen is fed from the tap between an 82 Kohms to B+ and a
10 Kohms to cathode (a 2 mA drain) and sits at +22.5 VDC to chassis
(ground.)
For an external 220 VDC applied, the B+ rail for the 6SJ7 is about 185
VDC (after a B+ RC filter.) The plate voltage is only +30 VDC for a
0.33 mA plate current. Cathode bias is 1.0 VDC. While this tube is
use as a low-signal microphone amplifier, the plate and screen
voltages and plate current seem rather low to me. While the gain,
given by (gm x RP) x RL/(RP + RL) seems good enough (not measured
other than by a "wet finger"!) and RL is certainly nice and high, does
the tube gain (gm x RP) hold up under such low current and voltage?
This operating point is so low down on the left of the tube
characteristic curves that its far below the knee of the pentode
family of curves, where they all combine, so you can't read it.
6SJ7 tube data (for normal operating points): RP = 700 Kohm, gm =
1.575 mA/volt, Thus, mu =~ 1100
In the spirit of "museum quality" refurbishing, regardless of any
better design, I certainly do not propose to change the values!
Thanks for all replies.
Cheers,
Roger
PS. I've also cross-posted in "rec.audio.tubes".

Interesting. hadn't realized that perhaps later versions of the
Lanchester, perhaps those built in Canada? had North American (Bendix)
electronics. Always thought that they had British style electronics
based on the T1154 plus R1155 etc. Plus the later H2S and either
British or US versions of the IFF with their explosive charges in a
tube in the middle.
I do recall some USA Bendix 'crew intercom' units on sale war
surplus.Had a bright aluminum case IIRC; whereas British stuff was
generally black (sometimes black crackle?). Two tubes, but I thought
one of them was 28D7 or something and the other was a 6.3 volt tube
such as the 6SJ7 mentioned with a dropping resistor for it's heater.
Was also under impression those units operated totally at 28 volts,
both for plate and heater voltage. probably a different unit?
Another note; later in WWII both USA and UK aircraft probably both
used SCR522, or equivalent VHF radios?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks for the info.
BTW, it's "Lancaster", (you have a typo!) "Lanchester" was the classic
car.
The Canadian Lancs had Bendix receivers and interphone equipment, the
British had the 1155 Rx and 1154 Tx, as you said (I don't know what
make of interphone equipment.) Our Rx is a Bendix RA-10DB. We found a
NOS one on eBay, looks great but not yet powered up - that's the next
project. Our Tx is a bendix TA-12, also not yet recommissioned.
We have two types of interphone stations (remote units) to hand, both
Bendix. One is bright metal and one is dark grey crackle enamel.
Re. aircraft supply voltage: the Canadian Lancaster had a 28 VDC
supply. The Interphone amplifier unit has its own integral dynamotor
for heater and B+ (we're not using it to avoid wear, so P/S's will be
external.) As you know, the 6V6 tube takes 0.45 A for the heater, the
6SJ7 takes 0.3 A. These two heaters are in series with the 6SJ7
heater bypassed by a 40 ohm ww resistor to take the nominal extra 0.15
A, and a 30 ohm ww in series to drop the rest of the voltage. But
that only adds up to 26 volts, which is what I am using. Even then
the 6V6 heater runs a bit low and the 6SJ7 a bit high - must be tube
dependent (not checked yet.) Not sure if the original dynamotor gave
26 or 28 volts to the heaters.
Cheers,
Roger
And remember that the British sets did not have tubes; they had valves

On Mar 18, 1:13*pm, "MoiInAust" wrote:
"Engineer" wrote in message

...
On Mar 18, 12:01 pm, stan wrote:


(snip)

Cheers,
Roger

And remember that the British sets did not have tubes; they had valves

Quite right, thanks! That's where I first learned electronics and
where I, too, built my first 6V6 amplifier! Later, a couple of
Mullard 5-10's (left with an ex-colleague in the UK some 38 years
ago.)
Cheers,
Roger
(near Toronto, Canada)

On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:37:21 -0700 (PDT), Engineer wrote:
Hi, Vacuumlanders,
I'm refurbishing the Bendix radios and intercom ("interphone") from a
WW2 Lancaster bomber that we are rebuilding for static display at the
Canadian Air & Space museum, Toronto.
See http://casmuseum.org/avro_683_lancaster_x.shtml

Great sutff!

I've sat in front of a T1154/R1155 combo in a static display, it would have
been nice to be able to fire it up!

I bought a new (still with the RAF stores tags) "bathtub" morse key from
a firm in Essex, England, who told me they had loads of cables and connectors
and Lanc parts, even spare engines. Sadly I can't remember their name :-(
It was nearly 30 years go...

--
Cheers,
Stan Barr plan.b .at. dsl .dot. pipex .dot. com

The future was never like this!

On Mar 19, 5:40*am, Stan Barr wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:37:21 -0700 (PDT), Engineer wrote:
Hi, Vacuumlanders,
I'm refurbishing the Bendix radios and intercom ("interphone") from a
WW2 Lancaster bomber that we are rebuilding for static display at the
Canadian Air & Space museum, Toronto.
See *http://casmuseum.org/avro_683_lancaster_x.shtml

Great sutff!

I've sat in front of a T1154/R1155 combo in a static display, it would have
been nice to be able to fire it up!

I bought a new (still with the RAF stores tags) "bathtub" morse key from
a firm in Essex, England, who told me they had loads of cables and connectors
and Lanc parts, even spare engines. *Sadly I can't remember their name :-( *
It was nearly 30 years go...

--
Cheers,
Stan Barr * * plan.b .at. dsl .dot. pipex .dot. com

The future was never like this!

Yes Lancaster; that was a typo/senior moment cos we had a Lanchester
car also!
And had a T1154 at one point in a big wooden box; cost 30 shillings
brand new and unused in early 1950s, IIRC.
Also an 1155A . All that in the basement workshop in Liverpool.
probably learned a lot from that war surplus gear.
Then spent 40 years in telecommunications! !952 to 1992.
Still have a few types of UK valves here and dabble occasionally.
Good luck with the Lancaster project.
BTW, do seem to recall the Bendix TA12; with preset numbers appearing
in little windows in front panel?
terry