On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:56:12 -0600, -exray
wrote:

Roger wrote:

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:26:17 -0600, -exray
wrote:

Well clearly they want the things reported to them so they can get the
header info and have the bogus sites shut down as rapidly as possible.


Not really. It depends mainly on the integrity of the site hosting
the problem. A forward of the problem post/e-mail *with headers* to a
good ISP will cause them to check. If they come up with anything that
user is gone.

"Not really"? Are we disagreeing about something?


Probably not. I was referring to the remark about they must have a lot
of pull or influence, or something to that effect :-))

snip

Roger, we are preaching to the choir. These spam and fraud issues are
almost daily subjects (ad nauseum) on any internet forum such as this
one. Hell, these scams get reported on the evening network news. You'd
have to live in a cave...seems that quite a few people do!

When you consider (I think the number is 20%) of the computers hooked
to the net are infected It's one whale of a lot. :-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com



-Bill

"Roger" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:56:12 -0600, -exray
wrote:

Roger wrote:

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:26:17 -0600, -exray
wrote:

Well clearly they want the things reported to them so they can get the
header info and have the bogus sites shut down as rapidly as possible.


Not really. It depends mainly on the integrity of the site hosting
the problem. A forward of the problem post/e-mail *with headers* to a
good ISP will cause them to check. If they come up with anything that
user is gone.

"Not really"? Are we disagreeing about something?


Probably not. I was referring to the remark about they must have a lot
of pull or influence, or something to that effect :-))

snip

Roger, we are preaching to the choir. These spam and fraud issues are
almost daily subjects (ad nauseum) on any internet forum such as this
one. Hell, these scams get reported on the evening network news. You'd
have to live in a cave...seems that quite a few people do!

When you consider (I think the number is 20%) of the computers hooked
to the net are infected It's one whale of a lot. :-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com



-Bill


MUCH tougher laws and punishments are needed - to "help" out in this area.
I say help, because it won't be a total and/or immediate cure. Though some
laws are coming out, they're slow and "untested". This is still a "new"
arena for the law makers, many of whom no doubt are still stuck in the stone
ages - mentally. They fail to keep up with "current" demands and issues. 20%
if that is the number, is pretty steep - and that isn't taking into account
the many who get online - new - each day. They get sucked into this not
knowing what to expect. Be it ripped off or a damned virus. My opinion, take
all those ass holes out - responsible for that - and execute them. They're
not worth any more than the terrorists we're trying to protect the citizenry
from in other areas. Once people see stiffer punishments being carried out,
they may stop and think about doing it again (if they've not been caught
yet) or in the future. This country is getting more and more like the
lawless Wild West. Laws are put into effect every day, yet more and more are
being broken just as fast. What good are laws, if not adhered to?

To those who "may" be new on here, DO NOT trust "everything" you read,
especially any e-mails coming your way - in particular from strangers.
BEFORE you open up any files - even in newsgroups, READ some comments from
those who've been around or know the tricks that are used by the scum bags.
It could save you some grief.

I got an e-mail the other day from a friend of mine which reported 3 of the
competing Online Servers are suing some people who were accused of sending
out canned spam - as per the Can Spam act. Spam which has no traceable
address or at least no way to tell them to drop you from their list. Will
they win? We'll have to wait and see. Will it stop them from doing it again?
Who knows. Some people never learn. Stay tuned!

TRM

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:14:33 -0400, "OH YEAH"
wrote:

"Roger" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:56:12 -0600, -exray
wrote:

Roger wrote:

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:26:17 -0600, -exray
wrote:

Well clearly they want the things reported to them so they can get the
header info and have the bogus sites shut down as rapidly as possible.


Not really. It depends mainly on the integrity of the site hosting
the problem. A forward of the problem post/e-mail *with headers* to a
good ISP will cause them to check. If they come up with anything that
user is gone.

"Not really"? Are we disagreeing about something?


Probably not. I was referring to the remark about they must have a lot
of pull or influence, or something to that effect :-))

snip

Roger, we are preaching to the choir. These spam and fraud issues are
almost daily subjects (ad nauseum) on any internet forum such as this
one. Hell, these scams get reported on the evening network news. You'd
have to live in a cave...seems that quite a few people do!

When you consider (I think the number is 20%) of the computers hooked
to the net are infected It's one whale of a lot. :-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com



-Bill


MUCH tougher laws and punishments are needed - to "help" out in this area.
I say help, because it won't be a total and/or immediate cure. Though some
laws are coming out, they're slow and "untested". This is still a "new"
arena for the law makers, many of whom no doubt are still stuck in the stone
ages - mentally. They fail to keep up with "current" demands and issues. 20%
if that is the number, is pretty steep - and that isn't taking into account
the many who get online - new - each day. They get sucked into this not
knowing what to expect. Be it ripped off or a damned virus. My opinion, take
all those ass holes out - responsible for that - and execute them. They're
not worth any more than the terrorists we're trying to protect the citizenry
from in other areas. Once people see stiffer punishments being carried out,
they may stop and think about doing it again (if they've not been caught
yet) or in the future. This country is getting more and more like the
lawless Wild West. Laws are put into effect every day, yet more and more are
being broken just as fast. What good are laws, if not adhered to?


Although some will think this off topic I think it pretty well
pertains to all newsgroups. Sorry about getting long winded.

To those who "may" be new on here, DO NOT trust "everything" you read,
especially any e-mails coming your way - in particular from strangers.

And don't trust attachments even if they are from friends unless you
are expecting them. In general you are most likely to receive a virus
from someone who has you in their address book.

No one should be on the net without a firewall and virus checker.
ISPs are talking about blocking customers with infected machines and
not letting them back on until they can prove the machine is clean and
safe with an up-to-date firewall and virus checker.

If all of these infected machines were booted off it would remove one
of the current main tools for spreading viruses and spam AND it would
make the end users far more diligent about keeping up-to-date and
practicing safe computing.

BEFORE you open up any files - even in newsgroups, READ some comments from
those who've been around or know the tricks that are used by the scum bags.
It could save you some grief.

I got an e-mail the other day from a friend of mine which reported 3 of the
competing Online Servers are suing some people who were accused of sending
out canned spam - as per the Can Spam act. Spam which has no traceable
address or at least no way to tell them to drop you from their list. Will
they win? We'll have to wait and see. Will it stop them from doing it again?
Who knows. Some people never learn. Stay tuned!


First, to the newbies and some not so new. As TRM said; never open a
link in a post that contains nothing except the link, or wait until at
least several others have opened it first and commented on it. Don't
even open the posts that appear to be out of place on a news group
such as "so and so caught naked", or along those lines. The links can
take you to sites that can plant malicious code on your computer. Code
that can log key strokes and give others access to your computer and
the files on it. Some of that code will download thousands of adds,
and addresses, turning *YOUR* computer into a spam spewing zombie. As
I mentioned before; as I recall, the last figures I saw estimate that
over 20% of the personal computers on line are infected with viruses,
worms, or have been turned into spam spewing zombies. That is
millions of computers! It's no wonder the net is slow at times.

A recent article titled "20 Minutes" said the average "unprotected
computer" hooked to broadband such as cable will be infected within 20
minutes.

As a wake up call, when I went to a page last week I had a window pop
open to ask where I wanted to save the file? What file? I hadn't
tried to download anything. Just visit a page I visit nearly every
day. A quick view of the source code on their page showed it was
trying to install a program on my machine. His page was infected! My
firewall, virus checker, choice of browser, and browser settings
saved my machine.

The "Can Spam Act", better known in computing circles as "Eat Your
Spam Act", is a prime example of the unknowing trying to regulate
something.

It requires the sender include a Click here to Remove from the
mailing list, when in fact any one in-the-know, knows better than to
reply to any spam in any manner except to the abuse desk at where
ever.
That many use this method to verify the address seems lost on the law
makers. Of course they managed to exclude them selves, charities, and
religious organizations for some strange reason.

At least they did include the requirement for a valid reply to address
which is about the only thing the spammers are getting caught by. OTOH
some ISPs such as AOL are taking some of them to court in civil
actions.

I'm pretty sure they will win the specific cases, but I don't see it
as much of a deterrent. The spam and scams are just too lucrative.
Even if they only received 1/10 of one percent returns they are making
fortunes and by that I mean many millions of dollars.

Another reason for not using HTML mail readers, or turning it off.
Opening an HTML mail to see what's in it can easily verify the address
and any adds opened count as money in the spammer's pockets.

I do think that the companies in the adds should also be held
responsible. I called one well known company to complain about spam
and pop-up adds for their company. The response: "We just hire the
advertising company. We aren't responsible for the way they advertise
our product".

As a final note, Never, Ever, click on a link in an e-mail to up-date
your operating system. If you use Windows never use any route except
"Windows Update", or by going directly to the proper MS site. Don't
use the links in an e-mail to get there either.

I could write many pages on how to do "safe computing" but the ones
who need it wouldn't read it because they know it'll never happen to
them.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
TRM

In article ,
says...


Its real simple... until Spammers and Virus writers on a world wide
basis are simply taken out and "Shot at Dawn" it won't stop! The penalty
has to be stiff enough that they won't do it.

As my Dearly Departed Father said... some have to feel pain to understand.

John k9uwa

"John Goller, k9uwa" wrote in message
news:uD6hd.39271$R05.23442@attbi_s53...
In article ,
says...


Its real simple... until Spammers and Virus writers on a world wide
basis are simply taken out and "Shot at Dawn" it won't stop! The penalty
has to be stiff enough that they won't do it.

As my Dearly Departed Father said... some have to feel pain to understand.

John k9uwa



That was my point - exactly! While we're at it, take out all the rest of the
scum and do likewise. After all, you do need a "shot" to cure the ills.
Inoculate "permanently" - all of them.

TRM

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:27:38 GMT, TUFF (John
Goller, k9uwa) wrote:

In article ,
says...


Its real simple... until Spammers and Virus writers on a world wide
basis are simply taken out and "Shot at Dawn" it won't stop! The penalty
has to be stiff enough that they won't do it.

Why wait until dawn?


--
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On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:31:06 GMT, Jack wrote:

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:27:38 GMT, TUFF (John
Goller, k9uwa) wrote:

In article ,
says...


Its real simple... until Spammers and Virus writers on a world wide
basis are simply taken out and "Shot at Dawn" it won't stop! The penalty
has to be stiff enough that they won't do it.

Why wait until dawn?

Because the shoot-em-all lunatics know they'd just kill
themselves and miss the target in the circular firing squads they set
up at night?