N2EY wrote:
In article , (Scott Dorsey)
writes:

Why do you worry about how others decide to spend THEIR money?

Problems?

Because it raises price standards for everyone else.

That's a side effect of a free market. Would you rather there were price
controls?

No, in this case it's the result of two different markets that don't really
communicate well. Ebay has provided a market for buyers and sellers to get
together more conveniently, which is a good thing. But it has also provided
a way for people who don't know what they are buying to get into the act.

This results in things like current production items selling for higher than
list price on Ebay. This is a surprisingly common occurrence, and I have sold
a few items like that myself, sadly enough.

But when you have folks who don't know what the current value of an item
is getting into the act, the value is going to change. And it will change
even though the actual supply and demand don't change at all.

Inexperienced bidders who don't
know what things are worth, and bidding wars between people who desperately
have to have an item, tend to raise the overall market value of an item more
than it should be.

Whoa there!? "More than it should be"? Who gets to say what some piece of old
radio gear is worth, other than the buyer and seller?

eBay is just a great big worldwide online hamfest that goes on 24/7. Of course
it's going to raise prices - just like prices at Dayton, Rochester, Deerfield
and Gaithersburg are/were higher (on average) than at some small local hamfest.

No, in some cases, eBay reduces prices, when people out there realize how
many copies of a "rare" item there really are.

In the case of items that really _are_ one of a kind, there is nobody who gets
to say what something is worth other than the buyer and the seller. But in
the case of a readily available item, especially a current production item,
there's a fair market value.

The higher prices are bad for buyers, of course, but they're wonderful for
sellers. More important, higher prices tend to keep things out of the landfill.
I recall when ARC-5s were a few bucks each at most - and also when a lot of
them were dumpstered because the owner had gotten tired of carting them to
hamfests trying to sell them.

This is a good thing for the most part... the ARC-5 example is a weird one,
though, because some of those sets are worth a fortune while others still are
worth only a few bucks. This means if you're buying one, you really need to
know what you are buying so you don't overbid or underbid outrageously.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
N2EY wrote:
In article , (Scott
Dorsey)
writes:

Why do you worry about how others decide to spend THEIR money?

Problems?

Because it raises price standards for everyone else.

That's a side effect of a free market. Would you rather there were
price
controls?

No, in this case it's the result of two different markets that don't
really
communicate well. Ebay has provided a market for buyers and sellers
to get
together more conveniently, which is a good thing.

Agreed! But because it allows a seller to (potentially) reach a much
larger number of buyers, there is upward pressure on prices. OTOH,
because buyers have access to more sellers, there is also downward
pressure on prices. So far, the upward pressure has outweighed the
downward.

In other areas the reverse is true. Some years back, a few friends of
mine had "rare" Beanie Babies they thought were "worth big bucks". Then
came eBay and they discovered how "rare" their collections were(n't).

But it has also provided
a way for people who don't know what they are buying to get into the
act.

Isn't that true of *any* market?

This results in things like current production items selling for
higher than
list price on Ebay. This is a surprisingly common occurrence, and I
have sold
a few items like that myself, sadly enough.

But when you have folks who don't know what the current value of an
item
is getting into the act, the value is going to change.

Current production is a completely different situation from stuff that
is no longer produced.

And it will change
even though the actual supply and demand don't change at all.

The change is due to an increase of demand. Those who pay $150 on eBay
for a new widget that they could buy through a conventional dealer for
$100 obviously don't know that the conventional dealers exist. Or if
they do know, there is some reason they won't buy from the conventional
dealers.

It's like the person who will go to a Wawa (local convenience store)
and pay more for an item than an Acme (local supermarket) is charging -
even though the Acme is across the street and both stores are open!
Acme has express lanes so it's not the time factor.

Inexperienced bidders who don't
know what things are worth, and bidding wars between people who
desperately
have to have an item, tend to raise the overall market value of an
item more
than it should be.

Whoa there!? "More than it should be"? Who gets to say what some
piece of old
radio gear is worth, other than the buyer and seller?

eBay is just a great big worldwide online hamfest that goes on 24/7.
Of course
it's going to raise prices - just like prices at Dayton, Rochester,
Deerfield
and Gaithersburg are/were higher (on average) than at some small
local hamfest.

No, in some cases, eBay reduces prices, when people out there realize
how
many copies of a "rare" item there really are.

Agreed. The Beanie Babies example shows that. But in the area of old
radios and related parts, I'd say that eBay has generally driven prices
up.

In the case of items that really _are_ one of a kind, there is nobody
who gets
to say what something is worth other than the buyer and the seller.
But in
the case of a readily available item, especially a current production
item,
there's a fair market value.

But in general the "madness" is focused on things not in current
production, like the $5100 unbuilt Heath AT-1 kit from 1956. Its value
is perhaps 1% FMV and 99% rarity.

Who determines FMV for a current production item? If it's the
manufacturer, how come some car dealers could tack on "ADP" to cars in
short supply/high demand?

As stated before, current production is a different game than old
stuff.

The higher prices are bad for buyers, of course, but they're
wonderful for
sellers. More important, higher prices tend to keep things out of
the landfill.
I recall when ARC-5s were a few bucks each at most - and also when a
lot of
them were dumpstered because the owner had gotten tired of carting
them to
hamfests trying to sell them.

This is a good thing for the most part... the ARC-5 example is a
weird one,
though, because some of those sets are worth a fortune while others
still are
worth only a few bucks.

How much an ARC-5 is "worth" depends entirely on buyer and seller. The
situation is complicated by the large number of different models,
types, etc., that are nominally called "ARC-5" even though many of them
are not. In any event, it's still a matter of classic supply and
demand.

This means if you're buying one, you really need to
know what you are buying so you don't overbid or underbid
outrageously.

But isn't that true of *any* item not in current production?

For example, some years back the 4D32 tube brought very high prices and
was considered "rare" to the point that the value of certain BAs was
depressed because they used that tube.

Then a bunch of NOS surplus 4D32s showed up on the market. Apparently
they'd been used in some military system or other and a considerable
number had been warehoused for decades until that system was no longer
in operation. 4D32 prices dropped quite a bit.


Interesting thing about the $645 SB-104A is that it started at $25...

--

I think the real difference of eBay is the auction aspect. At a hamfest
there's typically some hoss-trading, unless the seller makes it clear
that it's "price as marked". Sometimes two or three buyers will compete
for a hamfest item, but usually the reality is that the quickest draw
with the wallet usually wins.

What's so odd, to me, is the inverted nature of the buyer behavior. At
a hamfest, you often have to make a snap decision based on only the
info you have right now. At most, you may have a few hours to think it
over and perhaps haggle. (How many times have you put down an item,
walked away, thought it over, came back and it was sold?)

But most eBay auctions go on for a week! Plenty of time to check out
other sellers, including the conventional ones. Plenty of time to think
it over and not be driven by the impulse of the moment.

My classic eBay bidding technique is to look long and hard at an item,
think it over, and then bid my maximum price - once, by proxy. If I
win, fine, if not, then it wasn't meant to be.

73 de Jim, N2EY

My classic eBay bidding technique is to look long and hard at an item,
think it over, and then bid my maximum price - once, by proxy. If I
win, fine, if not, then it wasn't meant to be.=20

Just one comment. Bidding once is a good technique, provided that you =
only place your bid 20 seconds from auction end.

As a matter of fact bidding hours or, worse, days before auction end =
will give others time to place successive bids in small increments, =
until they surpass you by just 1$.

73

Tony, I0JX

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 23:18:43 UTC, "Antonio I0JX"
wrote:

My classic eBay bidding technique is to look long and hard at an item,
think it over, and then bid my maximum price - once, by proxy. If I
win, fine, if not, then it wasn't meant to be.

Just one comment. Bidding once is a good technique, provided that
you only place your bid 20 seconds from auction end.

As a matter of fact bidding hours or, worse, days before auction
end will give others time to place successive bids in small
increments, until they surpass you by just 1$.


Nope, doesn't work that way. I play it the way Antonio does. I
bid my max or there-abouts, right at the beginning. I've seen
folk inching up their bids but unless they are willing to go to *my*
max, they don't win the item.

If they do win it, hey, congratulations. I'll try again next time.

Look at the SB-104A that just went on the Bay. The proxy was
$1,000. A few bottom feeders inched it up 100, 200, 210, 215, but
they dropped out because they didn't want it enough.

Finally the serious buyers took it to $645.

Sometimes I sorta want an item and set my proxy bid, kinda high, at
the beginning. Folk will inch up, others will try the last minute
bid but how does anyone know what my proxy is?

Bid too high at the last minute and you might find yourself winning
the item at a higher price than you would have paid if you had days
or weeks to think about it.

I *never* pay too much because I have the time to think it through,
set my proxy, and walk away. Many times I've been pleased to find
that no one has been willing to bid at the last minute.

Take a look at http:groups.yahoo.com/group/RadioInvestor

There's a picture of a very nice Collins 75S-1 and discussion of the
investing in boatanchors. (fixing them up too.)

"No Spam " No wrote in message
news:ifgU75G3LLdo-pn2-o63H54TQec58@localhost...
On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 23:18:43 UTC, "Antonio I0JX"
wrote:

My classic eBay bidding technique is to look long and hard at an item,
think it over, and then bid my maximum price - once, by proxy. If I
win, fine, if not, then it wasn't meant to be.

Just one comment. Bidding once is a good technique, provided that
you only place your bid 20 seconds from auction end.

As a matter of fact bidding hours or, worse, days before auction
end will give others time to place successive bids in small
increments, until they surpass you by just 1$.


Nope, doesn't work that way. I play it the way Antonio does. I
bid my max or there-abouts, right at the beginning. I've seen
folk inching up their bids but unless they are willing to go to *my*
max, they don't win the item.

If they do win it, hey, congratulations. I'll try again next time.

Look at the SB-104A that just went on the Bay. The proxy was
$1,000. A few bottom feeders inched it up 100, 200, 210, 215, but
they dropped out because they didn't want it enough.

Finally the serious buyers took it to $645.

Sometimes I sorta want an item and set my proxy bid, kinda high, at
the beginning. Folk will inch up, others will try the last minute
bid but how does anyone know what my proxy is?

Bid too high at the last minute and you might find yourself winning
the item at a higher price than you would have paid if you had days
or weeks to think about it.

I *never* pay too much because I have the time to think it through,
set my proxy, and walk away. Many times I've been pleased to find
that no one has been willing to bid at the last minute.

Take a look at http:groups.yahoo.com/group/RadioInvestor

There's a picture of a very nice Collins 75S-1 and discussion of the
investing in boatanchors. (fixing them up too.)


Like several others, I generally set my max bid once and only once. If they
inch it up and beat me by a dollar, that's a dollar more than I was willing
to spend in the first place.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 18:01:36 -0500, "Dee Flint"
wrote:


Like several others, I generally set my max bid once and only once. If they
inch it up and beat me by a dollar, that's a dollar more than I was willing
to spend in the first place.

Aw come on, sniping is so much fun:-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 08:29:10 UTC, Roger
wrote:

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 18:01:36 -0500, "Dee Flint"
wrote:


Like several others, I generally set my max bid once and only once. If they
inch it up and beat me by a dollar, that's a dollar more than I was willing
to spend in the first place.

Aw come on, sniping is so much fun:-))

Only when going against bidders who don't know the product, prices,
or how to use a proxy. What snipers don't realize is the bidders
like Dee and myself aren't interested in playing the, "well, if they
bid $19.00, I'll look in my coffee can for some change and bid
$20.00"

We have "our" price. If you want it more than we do, you're welcome
to it.


--

Like several others, I generally set my max bid once and only once. =
If they=20
inch it up and beat me by a dollar, that's a dollar more than I was =
willing=20
to spend in the first place.

You exactly know what you want, lucky man!

Instead, I am always uncertain and, if they beat me by just one dollar, =
I would regret not having bid 2 $ more.

73

Tony, I0JX

"Antonio I0JX" wrote in message
...
Like several others, I generally set my max bid once and only once. If
they
inch it up and beat me by a dollar, that's a dollar more than I was
willing
to spend in the first place.

You exactly know what you want, lucky man!

Instead, I am always uncertain and, if they beat me by just one dollar, I
would regret not having bid 2 $ more.

73

Tony, I0JX


Actually I am a lucky lady.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"No Spam " No wrote in message
news:ifgU75G3LLdo-pn2-EP3Fr6USdHYK@localhost...
On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 08:29:10 UTC, Roger
wrote:

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 18:01:36 -0500, "Dee Flint"
wrote:


Like several others, I generally set my max bid once and only once. If
they
inch it up and beat me by a dollar, that's a dollar more than I was
willing
to spend in the first place.

Aw come on, sniping is so much fun:-))

Only when going against bidders who don't know the product, prices,
or how to use a proxy. What snipers don't realize is the bidders
like Dee and myself aren't interested in playing the, "well, if they
bid $19.00, I'll look in my coffee can for some change and bid
$20.00"

We have "our" price. If you want it more than we do, you're welcome
to it.


Besides, I've already factored in the "coffee can change" into my max bid.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE