"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
The other thing that REALLY turns me off is when they run out of
things to say/do and start saying "News Talk 1250, WTMA" over and over
and over ad nauseum. "News Talk 730, WSC" (WSCC is more ashamed of
its call letters. Being a Clear Channel station, they think they
should be able to use RCA's WSC station call, assigned to marine band
use.)

Except for the legal ID, the station can call itself anything it wants, as
long as what they want is not trade marked by someone else.

Except for yourself, how many listeners care that WSC is a marine call?
None.

Dan Moon, who switched from 1250 to 730 after being on WTMA for 30
years, once asked the call in listeners what they never wanted to hear
on WTMA, again. I called in and waited my turn after 6 spots played.
"Dan, if I never heard 'News Talk 1250, WTMA' again, it wouldn't be
too soon. Every one of us out here listening KNOWS what the station's
call letters are and KNOWS what frequency it is on. We don't need to
be told 37 times every 10 minutes. Why don't you put on some music if
you all run out of things to talk about." His answer was truly funny
and he didn't want to talk to me further. Three more callers followed
me up. I swear it was uncoordinated, but very effective. It took 'em
three weeks to get the self-promotion spots back up to 37 every 10
minutes in the aftermath.

However, you can look at arguably the nations most successful AM, KGO in San
Francisco. 25 years, 102 ratings in first place. They give the calls 50 to
60 times an hour. Always have.

11.6% of Arbitron diaries have unidentifiable listening in them. It is
nearly all to stations that do not identify enough who they are.

Most listeners listen to multiple stations. Most do not remember where they
tuned at a specific time unless constantly reminded.

Over on Clear Channel's WSCC, ol' Dan says the call letters/frequency
nearly continuously, now. Of course, he says WSC, not their real call
until the hour when they have a quickie spot to satisfy the FCC.

So? They have named the station WSC to make it easy to remember. This is
like WWWE in Cleveland (now WTAM) using 3-WE as an identifier.

No one but you cares.

I'm for an FCC regulation on all of them that makes it ILLEGAL to say
the stations call letters EXCEPT once during the 2-minute-to-the-hour
requirement and makes it illegal to quote the station's frequency all
together! Any takers?!

You are kidding, right? Except for the legal ID, a station can use any
identifier it wants.

Find something really important to worry about.

Every one of us out here listening KNOWS what the station's call letters are
and KNOWS what frequency it is on. We don't need to be told 37 times every 10
minutes.

I deduce from this that you've never seen a filled-out Arbitron diary. If you
actually worked in radio, the sight of a filled-out diary would scare the bleep
out of you. There are many stations that run more call-sign and/or frequency
and/or slogan mentions than your example, and yet diaries continue to contain
error after error after error. I have seen call signs absolutely butchered,
dial positions listed as "right next to 92 on my radio" or "my fifth
pushbutton," and station slogans that bear no resemblance to any station in the
market being surveyed. The fact that stations actually get credit for some
diary-keeping listeners I can only ascribe to some sort of miracle. Every one
of you out there listening does NOT know the call sign or frequency, in fact
more listeners don't know than those who do know.

Most radio listeners are not hobbyists who follow radio and know all its ins
and outs. They are casual listeners who have it on in the background, or are
listening for the programming, and don't give a hoot in h*ll what the call sign
or frequency are.

David Eduardo wrote:
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
The other thing that REALLY turns me off is when they run out of
things to say/do and start saying "News Talk 1250, WTMA" over and over
and over ad nauseum. "News Talk 730, WSC" (WSCC is more ashamed of
its call letters. Being a Clear Channel station, they think they
should be able to use RCA's WSC station call, assigned to marine band
use.)

Except for the legal ID, the station can call itself anything it wants, as
long as what they want is not trade marked by someone else.

I beg to differ. If anyone called the FCC on that Central Pennsylvania station
that id'd itself as WHOT-FM all of the time except at the top of the hour,
would the FCC not spank the station? (I'm referring to a station that was
mentioned in the Airwaves Digest a few years ago. WHOT-FM is the legal
callsign of a station at 101.1 in Youngstown, Ohio, and has been for years.)

Over on Clear Channel's WSCC, ol' Dan says the call letters/frequency
nearly continuously, now. Of course, he says WSC, not their real call
until the hour when they have a quickie spot to satisfy the FCC.

So? They have named the station WSC to make it easy to remember. This is
like WWWE in Cleveland (now WTAM) using 3-WE as an identifier.

Bull. There is no way anyone will mistake "3WE" for someone's call letters.

Nor will anyone mistake "Power 106", "Hot 97", or "Z92.5" for another
station's calls. It's *not* the same thing.

No one but you cares.

It *is* misleading and shouldn't be allowed. I just don't care enough to
complain.

You are kidding, right? Except for the legal ID, a station can use any
identifier it wants.

So if I license a station and ID myself properly as, say, KIYS at the top
of the hour, and I'm at 102.7, but during the rest of the hour I call myself
102.7 KIIS, no one will care? There is, of course, a station on 102.7 with
those calls.

Wink 106 FM in Corning, New York, used to play that game a few years ago...
I'd hear it when I was driving through Corning on the way to Albany or Boston.
The jingles said "Wink 106, W-I-N-K". WINK-FM, if I'm not mistaken, is in
Tampa, or was a few years ago anyhow. Even at the top of the hour, the DJ
would ID the station correctly ("You're listening to WNKI, Corning/Elmira")
and right after that you would hear the rest of the jingle, which used the
wrong calls (WINK).

I never cared enough to file a complaint with the FCC, but it's still not
right. I'd be ****ed if I owned or worked for the stations whose calls were
being improperly used.

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
Steve Sobol, Geek In Charge * 888.480.4NET (4638) *

So, the constant mention of the station call/freq isn't working. They
all do it and the Arbitron diary is still full of the information the
three replies mention. I suppose it does make the rating higher, the
only reason they are all on the air any more.

Thanks for the information. Probably best Arbitron doesn't call
me...(c;



On 22 Dec 2003 06:16:34 GMT, ospam (Sid Schweiger)
wrote:

Every one of us out here listening KNOWS what the station's call letters are
and KNOWS what frequency it is on. We don't need to be told 37 times every 10
minutes.

I deduce from this that you've never seen a filled-out Arbitron diary. If you
actually worked in radio, the sight of a filled-out diary would scare the bleep
out of you. There are many stations that run more call-sign and/or frequency
and/or slogan mentions than your example, and yet diaries continue to contain
error after error after error. I have seen call signs absolutely butchered,
dial positions listed as "right next to 92 on my radio" or "my fifth
pushbutton," and station slogans that bear no resemblance to any station in the
market being surveyed. The fact that stations actually get credit for some
diary-keeping listeners I can only ascribe to some sort of miracle. Every one
of you out there listening does NOT know the call sign or frequency, in fact
more listeners don't know than those who do know.

Most radio listeners are not hobbyists who follow radio and know all its ins
and outs. They are casual listeners who have it on in the background, or are
listening for the programming, and don't give a hoot in h*ll what the call sign
or frequency are.


Larry W4CSC

NNNN

Doug Smith W9WI wrote in
:

Sven Franklyn Weil wrote:
Ditto, why cluster all the spots in 10 minute sweeps twice an hour
instead of breaking them up into frequent two or three minute breaks
so it SEEMS like less commercials are being played?

Isn't the point to increase "Time Spent Listening" to be full 15 minute
blocks so the station gets credit for that? If you run two 10 minute
breaks, you can have 20 minutes of programming between them gaining 40
minutes Time Spent Listening over the course of the hour assuming one
comes back after the commercials.

If you had only 5-10 minute blocks of programming with commericlas in
between, you would never get the 15 minute blocks of Time Spent
Listening that radio stations seem to want.

Am I correct on this or way off?

Mike

Steven J Sobol wrote in
:

I beg to differ. If anyone called the FCC on that Central Pennsylvania
station that id'd itself as WHOT-FM all of the time except at the top
of the hour, would the FCC not spank the station? (I'm referring to a
station that was mentioned in the Airwaves Digest a few years ago.
WHOT-FM is the legal callsign of a station at 101.1 in Youngstown,
Ohio, and has been for years.)

This was the old 103.9 WHTO Muncy, PA. Muncy, PA is east of
Williamsport, PA along I-180. All this would have been going on in the
early 90's as I was going to school in Lock Haven (west of Williamsport)
at the time and 103.9 was the best Top 40 station around (for the area).
I remember that they would use "103.9 WHOT" when the jock would talk on
the air, but at the top of the hour Legal ID, the fast-talking voiceover
guy would use the proper "WHTO Muncy, Williamsport". I also have an old
bumper sticker of theirs that reads "103.9 WHOT is Red Hot". By the mid
to late 90's 103.9 had moved to another frequency and moved their
location to somewhere southeast of Williamsport. I assume for better
coverage of the area.

I remember when I listened to the station and wanted to call them
looking for a phone number under WHOT and not seeing anything. I don't
know how I finally figured out it was WHTO, but what I do remember was I
was confused! Was it WHTO or WHOT? I didn't know for sure, but I did
know I was listening to 103.9 FM. I guess that counts for something.

A question related to all of this: In the Williamsport ratings, who
would get credit if someone wrote down in their diary that they were
listening to WHOT? WHOT at the time was not in Williamsport, it was
elsewhere - Youngstown, Ohio as Steven Sobol mentioned. On the same
vien would 103.9 WHOT or just 103.9 give credit to WHTO - the real 103.9
in Muncy (Williamsport)? Obviously, a radiophile who put down WHTO
would do the station best since they'd definitely get credit.

To me, a situation like this is where a radio station shoots itself in
the foot by using calls on the air that are completely different than
those that they are legally assigned. It confuses the average listener,
but it would seem to me that it really confuses the ratings book which
is what all radio stations live an die by.

Mike

On 22 Dec 2003 17:53:53 GMT, "M. Hale"
wrote:

A question related to all of this: In the Williamsport ratings, who
would get credit if someone wrote down in their diary that they were
listening to WHOT? WHOT at the time was not in Williamsport, it was
elsewhere - Youngstown, Ohio as Steven Sobol mentioned. On the same
vien would 103.9 WHOT or just 103.9 give credit to WHTO - the real 103.9
in Muncy (Williamsport)? Obviously, a radiophile who put down WHTO
would do the station best since they'd definitely get credit.

If WHTO had "WHOT" registered with Arbitron as their on-air slogan,
they'd get credit for any "WHOT" in the diaries. Probably full
credit, as the Youngstown station's signal comes nowhere near the
Williamsport market.

They'd also get credit if someone marked down "103.9", since they
automatically get credit for on-frequency mentions. So, if they
registered "WHOT" and someone marked down "103.9 WHOT", there's no
doubt who they're hearing.

Mike

On 20 Dec 2003 02:49:11 GMT, Steven J Sobol
wrote:

Larry W4CSC wrote:
How can ANYONE'S IQ increase listening to 40 minutes of REPEATING
commercials an hour?

But Larry, that's the whole point. Repetition is the key to getting people
to remember the commercial!

There are other ways... Apple did that memorable TV commercial during
the Superbowl one year and it still gets replays just because it was
so interesting.

Stan Freberg did a few radio commercials for Chung King which also
attained notoriety.

It's not a Clear Channel thing. Commercials are just as annoying on everyone
else's broadcast channels too. And while there are a few truly innovative,
entertaining or thought-provoking ad campaigns, most of them just... suck.

This is one reason why I like sponsorship advertising. You don't have
to claim a thing. You just tell the public what you do for a living.

Has anyone done studies to show where each type is most effective?


Jake Brodsky

"Never mind the Turing Test, what about the Turing Graduates?"

Jake Brodsky wrote:

There are other ways... Apple did that memorable TV commercial during
the Superbowl one year and it still gets replays just because it was
so interesting.

You mean "Macintosh... so that 1984 isn't like _1984_" with the runner
carrying the big sledgehammer?

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
Steve Sobol, Geek In Charge * 888.480.4NET (4638) *

"M. Hale" wrote in message

Isn't the point to increase "Time Spent Listening" to be full 15 minute
blocks so the station gets credit for that? If you run two 10 minute
breaks, you can have 20 minutes of programming between them gaining 40
minutes Time Spent Listening over the course of the hour assuming one
comes back after the commercials.

If a person listens form 5:55 to 6:20, the station gets 45 minutes of
credit.

Credit is given for 15 minutes as long as the listener has 5 minutes or more
of recorded listening in any quarter hour.

There is no way to get "40 minutes" of credit as the system is based on
quarter hours.

If you had only 5-10 minute blocks of programming with commericlas in
between, you would never get the 15 minute blocks of Time Spent
Listening that radio stations seem to want.

You only need 5 minutes to get credit for a quarter hour. However, few
listeners are so precise, most writing down hour and half hour blocks.