"Steven J Sobol" wrote in message
...
David Eduardo wrote:
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
The other thing that REALLY turns me off is when they run out of
things to say/do and start saying "News Talk 1250, WTMA" over and over
and over ad nauseum. "News Talk 730, WSC" (WSCC is more ashamed of
its call letters. Being a Clear Channel station, they think they
should be able to use RCA's WSC station call, assigned to marine band
use.)

Except for the legal ID, the station can call itself anything it wants,
as
long as what they want is not trade marked by someone else.

I beg to differ. If anyone called the FCC on that Central Pennsylvania
station
that id'd itself as WHOT-FM all of the time except at the top of the hour,
would the FCC not spank the station? (I'm referring to a station that was
mentioned in the Airwaves Digest a few years ago. WHOT-FM is the legal
callsign of a station at 101.1 in Youngstown, Ohio, and has been for
years.)

That is an interesting point, and one to ask in Florida, where a bunch of
Clear Channel talkiers are all called "WFLA" except at the top of the hour.
They are not networked, either. they only ID with real calls on top of hour.

Or in Puerto Rico, where the news net of WKAQ (AM) has been called "WKAQ
Radio Reloj" for 4 decades on a network of about 5 or 6 stations, some 24/7,
and none IDing with true calls except onthe hour.

I don't think a formal complaint has been made, although I know some DXers
have written complaints of an informal type.

Over on Clear Channel's WSCC, ol' Dan says the call letters/frequency
nearly continuously, now. Of course, he says WSC, not their real call
until the hour when they have a quickie spot to satisfy the FCC.

So? They have named the station WSC to make it easy to remember. This is
like WWWE in Cleveland (now WTAM) using 3-WE as an identifier.

Bull. There is no way anyone will mistake "3WE" for someone's call
letters.

Nor will anyone mistake "Power 106", "Hot 97", or "Z92.5" for another
station's calls. It's *not* the same thing.

No one but you cares.

It *is* misleading and shouldn't be allowed. I just don't care enough to
complain.

Since this has been going on for 4 decades with no action by the FCC, I
guess they don't fcare, either.

You are kidding, right? Except for the legal ID, a station can use any
identifier it wants.

So if I license a station and ID myself properly as, say, KIYS at the top
of the hour, and I'm at 102.7, but during the rest of the hour I call
myself
102.7 KIIS, no one will care? There is, of course, a station on 102.7 with
those calls.

Anyone at 102.7 can call themselves 102.7 Kiss, but only if they license the
Kiss name from the mark holder.

Wink 106 FM in Corning, New York, used to play that game a few years
ago...
I'd hear it when I was driving through Corning on the way to Albany or
Boston.
The jingles said "Wink 106, W-I-N-K". WINK-FM, if I'm not mistaken, is in
Tampa, or was a few years ago anyhow. Even at the top of the hour, the DJ
would ID the station correctly ("You're listening to WNKI,
Corning/Elmira")
and right after that you would hear the rest of the jingle, which used the
wrong calls (WINK).

I'll bet it would be hard for anyone to say that the station, whose name is
Wink, could not spell wink so diary keepers would know how to write it down.

I never cared enough to file a complaint with the FCC, but it's still not
right. I'd be ****ed if I owned or worked for the stations whose calls
were
being improperly used.

As long as the signals don't overlap, it probably makes no difference to
them unless they have an interest in preserving a national service mark.

"M. Hale" wrote in message
...
..

A question related to all of this: In the Williamsport ratings, who
would get credit if someone wrote down in their diary that they were
listening to WHOT?

The station probably registered WHOT as a slogan, along with the Hot
moniker. Since there is no other similar call in the MSA (Metro Survey Area
or Metropolitan statistical Area), the one with the fake calls used as a
slogan will get credit as long as Arbitron was notified.

WHOT at the time was not in Williamsport, it was
elsewhere - Youngstown, Ohio as Steven Sobol mentioned. On the same
vien would 103.9 WHOT or just 103.9 give credit to WHTO - the real 103.9
in Muncy (Williamsport)? Obviously, a radiophile who put down WHTO
would do the station best since they'd definitely get credit.

Again, if the staiton registered "WHOT - Hot" they would get credit. In
general, most diary entries are by frequency, so the point is almost moot.

To me, a situation like this is where a radio station shoots itself in
the foot by using calls on the air that are completely different than
those that they are legally assigned. It confuses the average listener,
but it would seem to me that it really confuses the ratings book which
is what all radio stations live an die by.

Since no one else uses the calls in the market area, I don't think the
listener would be confused at all.

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
So, the constant mention of the station call/freq isn't working. They
all do it and the Arbitron diary is still full of the information the
three replies mention. I suppose it does make the rating higher, the
only reason they are all on the air any more.

The constant repetition does work. What does not work is not saying the name
or calls often.

On 22 Dec 2003 14:50:30 GMT, Steven J Sobol
wrote:

David Eduardo wrote:
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
The other thing that REALLY turns me off is when they run out of
things to say/do and start saying "News Talk 1250, WTMA" over and over
and over ad nauseum. "News Talk 730, WSC" (WSCC is more ashamed of
its call letters. Being a Clear Channel station, they think they
should be able to use RCA's WSC station call, assigned to marine band
use.)

Except for the legal ID, the station can call itself anything it wants, as
long as what they want is not trade marked by someone else.

I beg to differ. If anyone called the FCC on that Central Pennsylvania station
that id'd itself as WHOT-FM all of the time except at the top of the hour,
would the FCC not spank the station? (I'm referring to a station that was
mentioned in the Airwaves Digest a few years ago. WHOT-FM is the legal
callsign of a station at 101.1 in Youngstown, Ohio, and has been for years.)

I'm going to start calling myself WCSC on 75 meters......it must be
ok.....(c;


Larry W4CSC

NNNN

In article , Larry W4CSC wrote:

I'm going to start calling myself WCSC on 75 meters......it must be
ok.....(c;

Why not? You got the licence, Larry. It's perfectly legal...and if
you were talking with other ham radio operators, they'd recognize you
instantly. :-)

--
Sven Weil
New York City, U.S.A.

In article , David Eduardo wrote:

The constant repetition does work. What does not work is not saying
the name or calls often.

It's funny. Some people get teed off because the station
"overannounces" the call sign or name. Yet...some of these people
also get annoyed when you DON'T hear a call sign or name until the top
of the hour.

That is the case with a lot of college stations where deejays just
slap on record after record (or CD after CD) on the air, mumble a
couple of words every half hour but that's about it....then back to
another 30-in-a-row.

--
Sven Weil
New York City, U.S.A.

On 23 Dec 2003 07:39:58 GMT, (Sven Franklyn Weil)
wrote:


That is the case with a lot of college stations where deejays just
slap on record after record (or CD after CD) on the air, mumble a
couple of words every half hour but that's about it....then back to
another 30-in-a-row.

An old friend of mine, who was a station owner for many years, has
retired, but just couldn't help himself being out of broadcasting.
So, he got a LPFM license WSHG-LP and spent $70K putting up a nice
little station run by volunteers in his hometown, St George, SC, much
to the big boys' dismay.....

Wonder if he's in anybody's rating book? Anybody you ask in town will
tell you they're listening to it, just because it's a RADIO STATION,
not a continuous advertisement.....

Well, back to 30-in-a-row. Wish we had one in Charleston.


Larry W4CSC

NNNN

On 22 Dec 2003 17:53:52 GMT, "M. Hale"
wrote:

Isn't the point to increase "Time Spent Listening" to be full 15 minute
blocks so the station gets credit for that? If you run two 10 minute
breaks, you can have 20 minutes of programming between them gaining 40
minutes Time Spent Listening over the course of the hour assuming one
comes back after the commercials.

Part of it is to get 2 quarter hours before listeners tune away. In
the case of the limited number of breaks, "research has shown" that
listeners are more aware of the number of elements than they are of
their length. A :60 is perceived the same as a :30. Each is an
element.

The hope is that listeners will perceive fewer elements in a limited
number of breaks than they would with more breaks with fewer spots.

When the breaks were 5 minutes it was tolerable. Now that the spots
seem to outnumber the songs, listeners are wearing out their radio's
presets. Especially young listeners. I have a couple of my young
nieces and nephews visiting. Not only do they change stations when a
single song they don't like plays, they immediately change stations
when a break begins. I thank MTV for creating generations with 3
second attention spans.

I asked why. They said "it'll be a long time before the music starts
again."

That's not something a programmer wants to hear.

Both radio and TV are so riddled with clutter that it amazes me anyone
stays tuned. Listen to your favorite station for an hour. Write down
every time a new element begins. Music, news, spots, promos, jingles
and jock chatter each constitutes an element.

TV has taken clutter to awesome heights, both aural and visual.
Vitually every channel has a "bug" supered over all but commercials.
Annoying as hell. During shows there's a crawl or a super about an
upcoming show. Crawls used to be used only for emergency information.
I can only imagine the anger of a movie director when he sees his
masterpiece splattered with material that destroys the mood he tried
to create. Often one super overlaps another.

Rich

On 22 Dec 2003 22:06:30 GMT, Steven J Sobol
wrote:

You mean "Macintosh... so that 1984 isn't like _1984_" with the runner
carrying the big sledgehammer?

yes


Jake Brodsky

"Never mind the Turing Test, what about the Turing Graduates?"

Rich Wood wrote:

TV has taken clutter to awesome heights, both aural and visual.

There is (was) one channel out there (Bloomberg News?) that looked
more like a web page than a TV channel, with all the crawls, windows,
etc. on the screen ....

Vitually every channel has a "bug" supered over all but commercials.
Annoying as hell. During shows there's a crawl or a super about an
upcoming show. Crawls used to be used only for emergency information.
I can only imagine the anger of a movie director when he sees his
masterpiece splattered with material that destroys the mood he tried
to create. Often one super overlaps another.

Rich