Thanks goes out to K7DYY for sending me his PCB to help with my new
design...

http://www.telstar-electronics.com/d...s/WhatsNew.htm

On 20 Dec 2006 10:59:17 -0800, "Telstar Electronics"
wrote in
. com:

Thanks goes out to K7DYY for sending me his PCB to help with my new
design...


Aw jeez, you aren't going to try 11m Class E, are you? You haven't
even mastered the basic concept of linearity! I can see it now.....
Class E turned broadband by substituting the high-Q filter for a
ferrite balun resulting in harmonics all the way up to UHF. Can you
say "finger stock"?

Frank Gilliland wrote:
Aw jeez, you aren't going to try 11m Class E, are you? You haven't
even mastered the basic concept of linearity! I can see it now.....
Class E turned broadband by substituting the high-Q filter for a
ferrite balun resulting in harmonics all the way up to UHF. Can you
say "finger stock"?

Frank... as usual... I have no idea what you're babbling about.
You're as nutty as a Chrismas fruitcake.

See the latest project at:
http://www.telstar-electronics.com/d...s/WhatsNew.htm

On 21 Dec 2006 04:19:36 -0800, "Telstar Electronics"
wrote:

Frank Gilliland wrote:
Aw jeez, you aren't going to try 11m Class E, are you? You haven't
even mastered the basic concept of linearity! I can see it now.....
Class E turned broadband by substituting the high-Q filter for a
ferrite balun resulting in harmonics all the way up to UHF. Can you
say "finger stock"?

Frank... as usual... I have no idea what you're babbling about.
You're as nutty as a Chrismas fruitcake.

See the latest project at:
http://www.telstar-electronics.com/d...s/WhatsNew.htm

Why would you put any energy into an audio speech processor?
You yourself have even discounted the usefulness of audio speech
processing when commenting in the past about Lou Franklins model.
Are you trying to tell us that you can re-invent a more useful wheel?

wrote:
Why would you put any energy into an audio speech processor?
You yourself have even discounted the usefulness of audio speech
processing when commenting in the past about Lou Franklins model.
Are you trying to tell us that you can re-invent a more useful wheel?

You are absolutely right... I don't like Lou's design. His design clips
the hell out of the audio signal... and then attempts to filter his way
to sucess. Nice idea, but doesn't work well. However, I never said that
other types of processing didn't work.. or weren't effective. Reinvent
the wheel... no... Analog Devices has already taken care of that... I'm
just using their IC chip in my design. The audio distortion is very low
with this chip.

www.telstar-electronics.com

On 21 Dec 2006 05:36:58 -0800, "Telstar Electronics"
wrote in
. com:

wrote:
Why would you put any energy into an audio speech processor?
You yourself have even discounted the usefulness of audio speech
processing when commenting in the past about Lou Franklins model.
Are you trying to tell us that you can re-invent a more useful wheel?

You are absolutely right... I don't like Lou's design. His design clips
the hell out of the audio signal... and then attempts to filter his way
to sucess. Nice idea, but doesn't work well. However, I never said that
other types of processing didn't work.. or weren't effective. Reinvent
the wheel... no... Analog Devices has already taken care of that... I'm
just using their IC chip in my design. The audio distortion is very low
with this chip.


The distortion specs for the chip are given so the designer can decide
whether the chip is good enough for the studio or stage; for CB radio
it's overkill. Regardless, you missed the point once again: audio
compression -IS- distortion. IOW, hook it up to a distortion meter,
crank it up to 15:1, start talking and that needle will bounce all
over the place. The chip also has some other issues that you really
need to research first.

Want a decent compression circuit? Start with a bucket-brigade chip
like the old SAD-1024. That way the control signal can be adjusted for
a peak -before- it slams into the VCA. This eliminates the need for
frequency compensation, which is a common problem with real-time and
feedback types of compression circuits, including the SSM2166. It also
allows you to get higher compression with no distortion from spurious
harmonics that would otherwise need filtering. And the circuit has a
couple other benefits: it reduces feedback which is great when some
dope modifies his radio for talkback, and you can use the chip to make
some really cool sound effects such as echo and reverb.

But I suppose it's easier to hack someone else's design than learn
things for yourself, isn't it, Brian?

Frank Gilliland wrote:
The distortion specs for the chip are given so the designer can decide
whether the chip is good enough for the studio or stage; for CB radio
it's overkill. Regardless, you missed the point once again: audio
compression -IS- distortion. IOW, hook it up to a distortion meter,
crank it up to 15:1, start talking and that needle will bounce all
over the place. The chip also has some other issues that you really
need to research first.

Want a decent compression circuit? Start with a bucket-brigade chip
like the old SAD-1024. That way the control signal can be adjusted for
a peak -before- it slams into the VCA. This eliminates the need for
frequency compensation, which is a common problem with real-time and
feedback types of compression circuits, including the SSM2166. It also
allows you to get higher compression with no distortion from spurious
harmonics that would otherwise need filtering. And the circuit has a
couple other benefits: it reduces feedback which is great when some
dope modifies his radio for talkback, and you can use the chip to make
some really cool sound effects such as echo and reverb.

But I suppose it's easier to hack someone else's design than learn
things for yourself, isn't it, Brian?

Now Frank... how could they allow a chip for studio or stage (as you
put it) that had audible distortion. The answer... they couldn't. I'm
talking harmonic distortion... not compression distortion... which you
can't hear anyway. As far as your frequency compensation... I have no
idea what you're talking about... but that's not surprising with all
your techno-babble.

www.telstar-electronics.com

Frank Gilliland wrote:
The answer... the chip is most often used for gates and CVAs, not
compressors. Didn't I tell you to do your research?


Haha, I wish Frank lived down the road from me. He'd probably help me make
a clean sounding station. (clean is best imo)

--
Happy Holidays

On 21 Dec 2006 16:54:24 -0800, "Telstar Electronics"
wrote in
. com:


Frank Gilliland wrote:
The distortion specs for the chip are given so the designer can decide
whether the chip is good enough for the studio or stage; for CB radio
it's overkill. Regardless, you missed the point once again: audio
compression -IS- distortion. IOW, hook it up to a distortion meter,
crank it up to 15:1, start talking and that needle will bounce all
over the place. The chip also has some other issues that you really
need to research first.

Want a decent compression circuit? Start with a bucket-brigade chip
like the old SAD-1024. That way the control signal can be adjusted for
a peak -before- it slams into the VCA. This eliminates the need for
frequency compensation, which is a common problem with real-time and
feedback types of compression circuits, including the SSM2166. It also
allows you to get higher compression with no distortion from spurious
harmonics that would otherwise need filtering. And the circuit has a
couple other benefits: it reduces feedback which is great when some
dope modifies his radio for talkback, and you can use the chip to make
some really cool sound effects such as echo and reverb.

But I suppose it's easier to hack someone else's design than learn
things for yourself, isn't it, Brian?

Now Frank... how could they allow a chip for studio or stage (as you
put it) that had audible distortion. The answer... they couldn't.


The answer... the chip is most often used for gates and CVAs, not
compressors. Didn't I tell you to do your research?


I'm
talking harmonic distortion... not compression distortion...


Like I tried to tell you before, harmonic distortion is a consequent
of compression and doesn't go away with a magic chip.


which you
can't hear anyway.


You most certainly -can- hear compression distortion. It saps the
dynamics of the sound. How much dynamics is lost depends on the amount
of compression.


As far as your frequency compensation... I have no
idea what you're talking about...


Imagine my suprise.


but that's not surprising with all
your techno-babble.


Well, here's some more techno-babble:

Real-time or feedback type compressors such as the SMM2166 use a
comparator to create the control signal and results in a "knee" in the
response curve. But any curve that has a knee is non-linear and
results in harmonic distortion (same as "compression distortion" in
your RF amps). Because the harmonics extend beyond the limit of your
audio bandwidth you must therefore limit that distortion with filters.
Since filters are non-linear with respect to frequency, and since
audio is an extremely wideband application, some part of the loop
(usually the preamp) must compensate for the diminishing high
frequency response (yes, even when the audio is limited to 3kHz).
That's called "frequency compensation" and is something that must be
included in the design of any compression circuit (or amplifier). You
can try to soften the knee by slowing the response time of the control
signal, but that results in spikes at the output because some of the
signal sneaks through during the time delay. So no matter what you do,
distortion is just an inescapable limitation of these circuits. If you
want to learn more on the subject, get an education.

And just to confuse you even more, there is another type of real-time
compression that works -=MUCH=- better than anything else. The audio
is modulated to RF, clipped, filtered, and then down-converted back to
audio. The result is hard clipping with no harmonic distortion. Pretty
slick, huh?

Frank Gilliland wrote:
On 22 Dec 2006 02:46:43 GMT, Steveo wrote in
:

Frank Gilliland wrote:
The answer... the chip is most often used for gates and CVAs, not
compressors. Didn't I tell you to do your research?


Haha, I wish Frank lived down the road from me. He'd probably help me
make a clean sounding station. (clean is best imo)

Just make friends with the sound jock at your local dance hall. I ran
sound for a couple years and learned about ten times more about audio
than I did in college. I also drank about ten times more than I did in
college..... ::=burp=::

Nah, I have two friends that do the portable DJ thing and they don't know
dick about HF. They drink plenty while they're doing it too..I reckon
that's a perk tho.

Do you have a SSB 11 meter station anymore, Frank?

--
Happy Holidays