Why are almost all of my legally bought two-way radios considered
illegal, including one I planned to buy?

According to certain licensed users (both ham and GMRS users), almost
all of the two-way radios I bought here
in the U.S. from legal national chains here in the U.S. are completely
illegal to use.

1. My Motorola T6250's

I bought all of the T6250's I have separately from each other at Radio
Shack here in the U.S.

None of them have a FCC sticker on them, nor even a FCC ID engraved on
them.

The FCC ID for them is only in the instruction manual for them.

According to certain licensed users, these radios are illegal to use
in the U.S. since there aren't any FCC
identifications on the radios themselves.

To thm, it doesn't matter that the FCC I.D. is listed in the
instruction manual. According to them, the
FCC I.D. must be on the radios themselves and since Motorola doesn't
put any FCC I.D. stickers on any of
the T6250 radios themselves, the T6250's are illegal to use.

Then why can't I sue Radio Shack for selling me devices that aren't
fit for the purpose they were sold as?

Well, even if i could, it would cost too much money to go to court
over it, money that I don't have, and my state
passed a anti-consumer law which they passed off as a pro "consumer
protection law".

Oh, it's a consumer protection law alright. A law that protects
businessess from consumers suing them
whenever the businesses commit any kind of fraud or deception.

Also, all of the T6250's I have, which I bought separately from each
other, transmits a ring tone on whatever
channel you're on when you push the monitor button to hear if anyone
else is on frequency or not.

That causes interference. The left button sends a ring tone as it
should. however, the right button also sends
a ring tone which it shouldn't since it's a monitor button.
,
So whenever you try to monitor the frequency first to avoid
interference, you cause interference by doing so.

2. My Midland frs/gmrs radios.

According to licensed users, these are also illegal since the only
easy way to change channels on them is
to transmit on the channel you want it changed to even if you don't
intend to make any other transmissions
on that channel.

Such as you want to change it from channel 1 to channel 5 just to
listen to channel 5. To change it to
channel 5, you have to push the transmit button to make the radio
change channels, which transmits on
channel 5 in order to change the radio channel 5. So everyone else
listening to channel 5 hears a blank
carrier without anyone saying anything.

And to listen to two certain GMRS channels, you have to do the same,
which it's illegal to transmit at all on those
two GMRS channels here in the U.S.

The instruction manual even lists the above way as the way to change
channels on it.

I'll give the model number later when I find them.

Now to be fair, there is a way in the instruction manual to do it
without having to transmit on the channel
you want the radio turned to. However that way has so many steps and
is so complicated, and takes
much much longer, that most people wouldn't even bother using that
way.

Plus people who lost or misplaced the instruction manual like I did,
can't remember all of those
complicated steps,

Just the simple way of if you want to change channels on the radio,
even if you only want to listen and not talk,
transmit on the channel you want the radio changed to.

3. Motorola frs/gmrs with a blue casing.

I don't see the model number on the cas.

Mine of these have a one-minute time-out "feature" which makes
conversations last hours longer than they
normally would otherwise, thereby violating the FCC rules of keep
transmissions as short as possible
and therefore illegal to use.

Ironically, it was the licenced users who wanted the manufacturers to
include a time-out feature on the
frs/gmrs radios in order to follow Fcc rules and keep transmissions as
short as possible which
caused the radios to have these time-out features that violate FCC
rules by making transmissions
take hours longer than they otherwise would.

Just listen to the conversations of anyone who has these frs/gmrs
radios with a time-out feature.

It causes a bunch of arguments between the two parties involved that
never used to happen when the
exact same people used to use frs/gmrs radios that didn't have any
time-out feature at all.

The above two radios (#2 and #3), I bought from Best Buy.

4. My TRC. I forget the model number. I bought this years ago. It was
listed as "5 watts output".

According to some of the licensed people, this radio is also illeegal
because 5 watts output on cb isn't
legal and never ever was, according to them.

I bought it from Radio Shack, and it definitely said "five watts
output power" on the box, when used in high
power mode and was FCC-certified also.

How about that? A FCC-certified radio that is against the law to use
in the U.S.

Then where do you use it that it's legal at? Certainly not anywhwere
else in this world.

5. A CB radio I was thinking about buying. Radio Shack is selling it.
It's a three channel cb walkie talkie
that uses user-accessible crystals for the user to put in whatever cb
channel he wants.

According to certain licensed users, this cb is also illegal, since it
has user-acessible crystals which is a
violation of FCC rules and the trransmit and recieve crystals can be
easily switched around to make the
radio capable of transmitting on non-cb frequencies, and a radio
capable of such is also a violation of
FCC rules (according to licensed users) and therefore illegal to use
in the U.S.

And yet, this radio is also FCC-certified as being completely legal to
use in the use.

How about that? Another FCC-certified radio that's completely illegal
to use in the U.S. even though it's
FCC-certified as being completely legal to use in the U.S.

And one of the licened users even posted what he claimed wasrules from
the FCC site (it looked real too me)
which said that using FCC-certified radios on cb frequencies is
illegal in the U.S. if the cb has easily
acessible user controls that allow the radio to easily be ussed on non-
cb frequncies.

So what we have here is a FCC-approved as legal to use on the legal cb
frequencies in the U.S. radio that the FCC says is illegal to use on
the legal cb frequencies in the U.S.

Even if what the licenssed user posted wasn't really from the FCC, the
actual FCC rules I read myself still
make all of the above statements true and therefore contradicts
itself.

Which is "entrapment", an illegal act that the FCC and othe
authorities are not legally allowed to do.

Allowing for sale as a "legal rradio to use" that is completely
"illegal to use" is "entrapment" when done
by the authority that regulates the radio rules.

I didn't buy it. Yet. And I'm not sure that I should even though I
want it,

Simply because the FCC completely contradicts itself as to whether
what they approved as legal is legal or not.

Or as to what they said is illegal is illegal or not since they also
approved it as legal.

In addition to saying it's illegal.

In addition to saying it's legal.

On Apr 17, 6:18*pm, an old freind wrote:
On Apr 16, 3:04*pm, wrote: Why are almost all of my legally bought two-way radios considered
illegal, including one I planned to buy?

becuase the Govt is broken and the FCC is part of that broken Govt

I think you don't get it.

My radios that some of the licensed users claim are illegal and
against the law to use at all in the U.S. are ALL FCC-approved as
legal to use in the U.S. radios.

Although I think I agree with your statement about "the Govt is broken
and the FCC is part of that broken Govt"

On Apr 18, 11:59*am, wrote:
On Apr 17, 6:18*pm, an old freind wrote:

On Apr 16, 3:04*pm, wrote: Why are almost all of my legally bought two-way radios considered
illegal, including one I planned to buy?

becuase the Govt is broken and the FCC is part of that broken Govt

I think you don't *get it.

I think I do but maybe not

My radios that some of the licensed users claim are illegal and
against the law to use at all in the U.S. are ALL FCC-approved as
legal to use in the U.S. radios.

I I see your point now but it that is just an iteration the Govt is
broken the FCC is part of the govt and therfore broken an Many ham and
other are the result of a broken system at work

I apolgize for any confustion (bit not for the govt being broken

Although I think I agree with your statement about "the Govt is broken
and the FCC is part of that broken Govt"
your proble is merely the next order out the rwannabe radio cops are
result fot he break in govt

again My bad it seem I missed part of your point

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:04:06 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

|Why are almost all of my legally bought two-way radios considered
|illegal, including one I planned to buy?
|
|According to certain licensed users (both ham and GMRS users), almost
|all of the two-way radios I bought here
|in the U.S. from legal national chains here in the U.S. are completely
|illegal to use.
|
|1. My Motorola T6250's
|
|I bought all of the T6250's I have separately from each other at Radio
|Shack here in the U.S.
|
|None of them have a FCC sticker on them, nor even a FCC ID engraved on
|them.
|
|The FCC ID for them is only in the instruction manual for them.
|
|According to certain licensed users, these radios are illegal to use
|in the U.S. since there aren't any FCC
| identifications on the radios themselves.
|
|To thm, it doesn't matter that the FCC I.D. is listed in the
|instruction manual. According to them, the
| FCC I.D. must be on the radios themselves and since Motorola doesn't
|put any FCC I.D. stickers on any of
|the T6250 radios themselves, the T6250's are illegal to use.
|
|Then why can't I sue Radio Shack for selling me devices that aren't
|fit for the purpose they were sold as?
|
|Well, even if i could, it would cost too much money to go to court
|over it, money that I don't have, and my state
|passed a anti-consumer law which they passed off as a pro "consumer
|protection law".
|
|Oh, it's a consumer protection law alright. A law that protects
|businessess from consumers suing them
| whenever the businesses commit any kind of fraud or deception.
|
|Also, all of the T6250's I have, which I bought separately from each
|other, transmits a ring tone on whatever
|channel you're on when you push the monitor button to hear if anyone
|else is on frequency or not.
|
|That causes interference. The left button sends a ring tone as it
|should. however, the right button also sends
|a ring tone which it shouldn't since it's a monitor button.
|,
|So whenever you try to monitor the frequency first to avoid
|interference, you cause interference by doing so.
|
|2. My Midland frs/gmrs radios.
|
|According to licensed users, these are also illegal since the only
|easy way to change channels on them is
| to transmit on the channel you want it changed to even if you don't
|intend to make any other transmissions
| on that channel.
|
|Such as you want to change it from channel 1 to channel 5 just to
|listen to channel 5. To change it to
|channel 5, you have to push the transmit button to make the radio
|change channels, which transmits on
|channel 5 in order to change the radio channel 5. So everyone else
|listening to channel 5 hears a blank
|carrier without anyone saying anything.
|
|And to listen to two certain GMRS channels, you have to do the same,
|which it's illegal to transmit at all on those
|two GMRS channels here in the U.S.
|
|The instruction manual even lists the above way as the way to change
|channels on it.
|
|I'll give the model number later when I find them.
|
|Now to be fair, there is a way in the instruction manual to do it
|without having to transmit on the channel
|you want the radio turned to. However that way has so many steps and
|is so complicated, and takes
|much much longer, that most people wouldn't even bother using that
|way.
|
|Plus people who lost or misplaced the instruction manual like I did,
|can't remember all of those
|complicated steps,
|
|Just the simple way of if you want to change channels on the radio,
|even if you only want to listen and not talk,
|transmit on the channel you want the radio changed to.
|
|3. Motorola frs/gmrs with a blue casing.
|
|I don't see the model number on the cas.
|
|Mine of these have a one-minute time-out "feature" which makes
|conversations last hours longer than they
|normally would otherwise, thereby violating the FCC rules of keep
|transmissions as short as possible
|and therefore illegal to use.
|
|Ironically, it was the licenced users who wanted the manufacturers to
|include a time-out feature on the
|frs/gmrs radios in order to follow Fcc rules and keep transmissions as
|short as possible which
|caused the radios to have these time-out features that violate FCC
|rules by making transmissions
|take hours longer than they otherwise would.
|
|Just listen to the conversations of anyone who has these frs/gmrs
|radios with a time-out feature.
|
|It causes a bunch of arguments between the two parties involved that
|never used to happen when the
|exact same people used to use frs/gmrs radios that didn't have any
|time-out feature at all.
|
|The above two radios (#2 and #3), I bought from Best Buy.
|
|4. My TRC. I forget the model number. I bought this years ago. It was
|listed as "5 watts output".
|
|According to some of the licensed people, this radio is also illeegal
|because 5 watts output on cb isn't
|legal and never ever was, according to them.
|
|I bought it from Radio Shack, and it definitely said "five watts
|output power" on the box, when used in high
|power mode and was FCC-certified also.
|
|How about that? A FCC-certified radio that is against the law to use
|in the U.S.
|
|Then where do you use it that it's legal at? Certainly not anywhwere
|else in this world.
|
|5. A CB radio I was thinking about buying. Radio Shack is selling it.
|It's a three channel cb walkie talkie
|that uses user-accessible crystals for the user to put in whatever cb
|channel he wants.
|
|According to certain licensed users, this cb is also illegal, since it
|has user-acessible crystals which is a
|violation of FCC rules and the trransmit and recieve crystals can be
|easily switched around to make the
|radio capable of transmitting on non-cb frequencies, and a radio
|capable of such is also a violation of
|FCC rules (according to licensed users) and therefore illegal to use
|in the U.S.
|
|And yet, this radio is also FCC-certified as being completely legal to
|use in the use.
|
|How about that? Another FCC-certified radio that's completely illegal
|to use in the U.S. even though it's
|FCC-certified as being completely legal to use in the U.S.
|
|And one of the licened users even posted what he claimed wasrules from
|the FCC site (it looked real too me)
| which said that using FCC-certified radios on cb frequencies is
|illegal in the U.S. if the cb has easily
|acessible user controls that allow the radio to easily be ussed on non-
|cb frequncies.
|
|So what we have here is a FCC-approved as legal to use on the legal cb
|frequencies in the U.S. radio that the FCC says is illegal to use on
|the legal cb frequencies in the U.S.
|
|Even if what the licenssed user posted wasn't really from the FCC, the
|actual FCC rules I read myself still
|make all of the above statements true and therefore contradicts
|itself.
|
|Which is "entrapment", an illegal act that the FCC and othe
|authorities are not legally allowed to do.
|
|Allowing for sale as a "legal rradio to use" that is completely
|"illegal to use" is "entrapment" when done
|by the authority that regulates the radio rules.
|
|I didn't buy it. Yet. And I'm not sure that I should even though I
|want it,
|
|Simply because the FCC completely contradicts itself as to whether
|what they approved as legal is legal or not.
|
|Or as to what they said is illegal is illegal or not since they also
|approved it as legal.
|
|In addition to saying it's illegal.
|
|In addition to saying it's legal.
|
|
|--------------------

poor demented little mind that has no idea of what it is complaining
about.

First off understand the differences between "type acceptance" and
"type certification".


Also on some surface, internal or external, is an FCC ID # unless that
regulation was changed within the past 7 yrs. I retired 7 yrs ago from
the consumer electronics manufacturing and design business and have
not kept up to date on the changes over that period.

james

On Apr 19, 10:22*pm, james wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:04:06 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

|Why are almost all of my legally bought two-way radios considered
|illegal, including one I planned to buy?
|
|According to certain licensed users (both ham and GMRS users), almost
|all of the two-way radios I bought here
|in the U.S. from legal national chains here in the U.S. are completely
|illegal to use.
|
|1. My Motorola T6250's
|
|I bought all of the T6250's I have separately from each other at Radio
|Shack here in the U.S.
|
|None of them have a FCC sticker on them, nor even a FCC ID engraved on
|them.
|
|The FCC ID for them is only in the instruction manual for them.
|
|According to certain licensed users, these radios are illegal to use
|in the U.S. since there aren't any FCC
| identifications on the radios themselves.
|
|To thm, it doesn't matter that the FCC I.D. is listed in the
|instruction manual. According to them, *the
| FCC I.D. must be on the radios themselves and since Motorola doesn't
|put any FCC I.D. stickers on any of
|the T6250 radios themselves, the T6250's are illegal to use.
|
|Then why can't I sue Radio Shack for selling me devices that aren't
|fit for the purpose they were sold as?
|
|Well, even if i could, it would cost too much money to go to court
|over it, money that I don't have, and my state
|passed a anti-consumer law which they passed off as a pro "consumer
|protection law".
|
|Oh, it's a consumer protection law alright. A law that protects
|businessess from consumers suing them
| whenever the businesses commit any kind of fraud or deception.
|
|Also, all of the T6250's I have, which I bought separately from each
|other, transmits a ring tone on whatever
|channel you're on when you push the monitor button to hear if anyone
|else is on frequency or not.
|
|That causes interference. The left button sends a ring tone as it
|should. however, the right button also sends
|a ring tone which it shouldn't since it's a monitor button.
|,
|So whenever you try to monitor the frequency first to avoid
|interference, you cause interference by doing so.
|
|2. My Midland frs/gmrs radios.
|
|According to licensed users, these are also illegal since the only
|easy way to change channels on them is
| to transmit on the channel you want it changed to even if you don't
|intend to make any other transmissions
| on that channel.
|
|Such as you want to change it from channel 1 to channel 5 just to
|listen to channel 5. To change it to
|channel 5, you have to push the transmit button to make the radio
|change channels, which transmits on
|channel 5 in order to change the radio channel 5. So everyone else
|listening to channel 5 hears a blank
|carrier without anyone saying anything.
|
|And to listen to two certain GMRS channels, you have to do the same,
|which it's illegal to transmit at all on those
|two GMRS channels here in the U.S.
|
|The instruction manual even lists the above way as the *way to change
|channels on it.
|
|I'll give the model number later when I find them.
|
|Now to be fair, there is a way in the instruction manual to do it
|without having to transmit on the channel
|you want the radio turned to. However that way has so many steps and
|is so complicated, and takes
|much much longer, that most people wouldn't even bother using that
|way.
|
|Plus people who lost or misplaced the instruction manual like I did,
|can't remember all of those
|complicated steps,
|
|Just the simple way of if you want to change channels on the radio,
|even if you only want to listen and not talk,
|transmit on the channel you want the radio changed to.
|
|3. Motorola frs/gmrs with a blue casing.
|
|I don't see the model number on the cas.
|
|Mine of these have a one-minute time-out "feature" which makes
|conversations last hours longer than they
|normally would otherwise, thereby violating the FCC rules of keep
|transmissions as short as possible
|and therefore illegal to use.
|
|Ironically, it was the licenced users who wanted the manufacturers to
|include a time-out feature on the
|frs/gmrs radios in order to follow Fcc rules and keep transmissions as
|short as possible which
|caused the radios to have these time-out features that violate FCC
|rules by making transmissions
|take hours longer than they otherwise would.
|
|Just listen to the conversations of anyone who has these frs/gmrs
|radios with a time-out feature.
|
|It causes a bunch of arguments between the two parties involved that
|never used to happen when the
|exact same people used to use frs/gmrs radios that didn't have any
|time-out feature at all.
|
|The above two radios (#2 and #3), I bought from Best Buy.
|
|4. My TRC. *I forget the model number. I bought this years ago. It was
|listed as "5 watts output".
|
|According to some of the licensed people, this radio is also illeegal
|because 5 watts output on cb isn't
|legal and never ever was, according to them.
|
|I bought it from Radio Shack, and it definitely said "five watts
|output power" on the box, when used in high
|power mode and was FCC-certified also.
|
|How about that? A FCC-certified radio that is against the law to use
|in the U.S.
|
|Then where do you use it that it's legal at? *Certainly not anywhwere
|else in this world.
|
|5. A CB radio I was thinking about buying. Radio Shack is selling it.
|It's a three channel cb walkie talkie
|that uses user-accessible crystals for the user to put in whatever cb
|channel he wants.
|
|According to certain licensed users, this cb is also illegal, since it
|has user-acessible crystals which is a
|violation of FCC rules and the trransmit and recieve crystals can be
|easily switched around to make the
|radio capable of transmitting on non-cb frequencies, and a radio
|capable of such is also a violation of
|FCC rules (according to licensed users) and therefore illegal to use
|in the U.S.
|
|And yet, this radio is also FCC-certified as being completely legal to
|use in the use.
|
|How about that? Another FCC-certified radio that's completely illegal
|to use in the U.S. even though it's
|FCC-certified as being completely legal to use in the U.S.
|
|And one of the licened users even posted what he claimed wasrules from
|the FCC site (it looked real too me)
| which said that using FCC-certified radios on cb frequencies is
|illegal in the U.S. if the cb has easily
|acessible user controls that allow the radio to easily be ussed on non-
|cb frequncies.
|
|So what we have here is a FCC-approved as legal to use on the legal cb
|frequencies in the U.S. radio that the FCC says is illegal to use on
|the *legal cb frequencies in the U.S.
|
|Even if what the licenssed user posted wasn't really from the FCC, the
|actual FCC rules I read myself still
|make all of the above statements true and therefore contradicts
|itself.
|
|Which is "entrapment", an illegal act that the FCC and othe
|authorities are not legally allowed to do.
|
|Allowing for sale as a "legal rradio to use" that is completely
|"illegal to use" is "entrapment" when done
|by the authority that regulates the radio rules.
|
|I didn't buy it. Yet. *And I'm not sure that I should even though I
|want it,
|
|Simply because the FCC completely contradicts itself as to whether
|what they approved as legal is legal or not.
|
|Or as to what they said is illegal is illegal or not since they also
|approved it as legal.
|
|In addition to saying it's illegal.
|
|In addition to saying it's legal.
|
|
|--------------------

poor demented little mind that has no idea of what it is complaining
about.

First off understand the differences between "type acceptance" and
"type certification".

Also on some surface, internal or external, is an FCC ID # unless that
regulation was changed within the past 7 yrs. I retired 7 yrs ago from
the consumer electronics manufacturing and design business and have
not kept up to date on the changes over that period.

james

Not unless it's where you have to take the radio completely apart with
a screwdriver to see it.

I checked several times, both on the outsides of the radios, and on
the insides of the battery covers also, among various other places.

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 01:55:34 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

|Not unless it's where you have to take the radio completely apart with
|a screwdriver to see it.
|
|I checked several times, both on the outsides of the radios, and on
|the insides of the battery covers also, among various other places.
|-----------------

IF the radio is "Type Acceptance" labled then it will have an FFC ID
number somewhere on the radio. IF "type Certified" it will have a
ceritfication symbol usually on the main transmitter PCB.

The difference between certification and acceptance is that with
certification the vendor records all the pertenent data that the FCC
requires and then submits that data. They do not have to send in units
to the FCC to be tested as with Type Acceptance. The FCC will then
spot check units to see that the units comply with the data submitted
during teh certification period.

I have done both Type acceptance units and Type Certification units
for FCC approval.

james