:How many of them are currently making rf amplifiers like the
:example..? How many, if any current rf amplifier manufactures use a
:specific sequence relay in their circuits..?
:
:The answer is close to if not zero... back ye heathen with
:thy dated technology. Chase ye not windmills in this here land.

: More than you think, Skippy. Any good designer of common-cathode
: tetrode/pentode amps will add a sequenced relay specifically to make
: sure the screen is last-on-first-off (when the screen supply is
: seperate from the plate supply).

I believe you were talking about make before break TR relays frankie...
Your post just above is nothing special... nor is it news. Possibly
an attempt to change the subject to power supply squence relays from TR
switching..?


: A relay "Sequencing" notation seems to be missing from the circuit
: diagram. You are again chasing windmills...
:
: And you are having a hard time with your reading comprehension: see
: above where I said, "Schematics don't usually indicate when a relay
: operates in this way". Regardless, sometimes the sequencing is done
: with two relays, and sometimes with one relay using different contact
: gaps. But you will be hard-pressed to find a schematic that makes any
: notation about the latter. Anyone that has ever done any amount of
: radio repairs knows exactly what I am talking about. It's obvious that
: you don't.
:
:Remember mr off topic.... the original amplifier circuit in question has
:one relay.

: I never said it wasn't, Skippy. I guess I have to rephrase this a
: third time so you can understand it: Adding extra gap to a pair of
: contacts in a relay (by slightly bending the amrature) has the same
: effect as using two sequenced relays.

Nice song and dance... but again IT'S NOT USED IN ANY CURRENT AMATEUR
OR COMMERCIAL AMPLIFIER CIRCUIT, nor was it common in past commercial or
amateur amplifiers.

:Other than you gassy cloud sequence story, can you provide any
:modern rf amplifier circuit using a sequence relay...

: I'm willing to bet that the amplifier in question does.

It doesn't...

: or any mention
:of bending relay armature contacts or using said type of relays in
:their respective parts/owners manual.

: You probably won't see such a notation in any owner's or service
: manuals since these relays are typically ordered from the manufacturer
: with the specified gap (or 'contact delay' -- same thing). All you get
: from a service manual is the replacement part number. Replacing one of
: these with a general-purpose relay -without- checking the contact gaps
: on the original can lead to some serious trouble (and I learned THAT
: one from experience).

Brand and model of said lesson device...?

:Why is it not widely mentioned in modern manuals and text books..?

: Sequential relay circuits ARE mentioned in many manuals and text
: books, even in the ARRL manuals. It's up to the designer to choose how
: best to implement the circuit.

Nice try at a side step dance... I was talking about your oh so popular
sequenced relay contacts... on the same frame. Don't try to blend it into
a sequenced relay layout. We were talking a single relay frame, not more
than one relay.


: Your bent armatures suggestion is bad news.
:
: Such "bad news" that the practice has been used by almost every
: manufacturer of transceivers since they were invented? Right. Uh-huh.
: Ok. Next you are probably going to proclaim that relays are "dated
: technology". Sure thing, Skippy. Whatever you say.
:
:The subject was a simple rf amplifier circuit... you just want to dance
:the night away on off topic poop again.

: Why are they "bad news", Skippy? And if they are "bad news", why have
: they been used for decades?

Where... and the bigger question is, why are they not popular now..?
Simple answer: "really dated technology".

Because they are not reliable, nor are they practical, nor are they cheap.

:In regards to transceivers... rather than the stupid practice of hosing
:relay contacts... Motorola, GE, RCA and EF Johnson (along with most
:other mfgrs) simply delayed the RF long enough for the antenna relay
:to transfer.
:
:If you ever had your face in any of their manuals, you'd see delayed
:A+ and A- functions doing the task. Hey, what a concept..! In
:specific, see "channel element ground" functions.

: Those are common practices with diode switching circuits. Sequential
: relays accomplish the same thing, and when a relay is going to be used
: in the circuit it's much easier to gap a pair of contacts than it is
: to construct a power line delay circuit (which usually won't provide
: for the disconnection of the RF final before it powers down, burning
: out the relay contacts before their time).

There is a reason few if any amplifier - radio mfgrs are (might use a)
using sequential relay(s). You'd better jump from this "Titanic Topic"
before you go down with the ship.

I guess all the keyed A+ and A- used by companies like Motorola (for
decades) prefer the harder route. Come on now frankie...

: To verify my statements, all you need to do is to find an old radio
: that uses a T/R relay, take off the cover and look at the gaps. If you
: don't have an example of your own, email me your address and I'll send
: you a whole box full of old T/R relays from a wide variety of radios
: that use gapped contacts. Some of them have bent armatures and some of
: them have armature spacers, but all of them were built with the same
: objective -- a sequential relay.

I believe the original subject was an Amplifier... was it not..? The
last radio with a t/r relay was made ...? .... years ago..? ... decades
ago..?

:Yeah, cranking on relay armatures is pretty bad news... especially
:since many of them are sealed reed relay types. But you knew that
:and obviously holding back to see if I'd mention it... yeah right.!
:
:Hard to crank on a reed relay when its sealed. Yeah baby..!

: Reed relays don't carry RF very well. And they certainly don't carry
: power because it tends to vaporize the Hg and destroy the relay. They
: are usually only used for low-voltage DC and audio switching. But you
: knew that, didn't you Skippy?

I'm laughing at you big time here frankie.. I guess decades of Motorola,
GE, EF Johnson, Aerotron rf amplifier and radio switching with reed relays
doesn't prove anything. I guess its time I went and threw out the large
box of reed T/R relays I have from salvaged high power Motorola Micor
Radio Equipment. I got some nice/neat pictures of their very common
yellow RF switching (reed) relay I could send if you'd like to view them
while eating your crow.

: And the real issue with the relay in that amp is the fact that there
: is only one for both the input and output. If there is one thing that
: Pride got right with their 100 is their use of seperate input and
: output relays.
:
: ZZZZZZZZZZZZzZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....... .....!
:
: Gee, another "I don't care" response.
:
:One wonders why your so hot to tell your stories to me... when you
:should be sharing another of your famous verbose analysis with
:the original author. I promise not to laugh too hard if you do.
:Just leave out the equalization networks...

: I have had several discussions with Brian on many of the issues he
: raised with this amp, including the use of a single relay. He was
: right on the money with everything he said and I don't think he should
: have stopped when he did. He has learned good information from those
: discussions, although I didn't think he ever would at the time. You
: should follow his example, Skippy.

I appreciate your concern frankie, but you have me confused with someone
who really cares about what you post.

Hopefully Brian did not go for your dated relay information. Arcing /
bending relay contacts for use in RF amplifiers is bad news. Wasn't
even great back in the 50's, 60's and 70's. Bad habits die hard... you
prove that quite a bit in your posts.

skipp