"itoldyouiamnotiamnotgeorge" wrote
in message ...
"Jim Hampton" wrote in
:


"itoldyouiamnotiamnotgeorge"
wrote in message ...
"Jim Hampton" wrote in
news:wk4yc.5577$HL5.1283 @news02.roc.ny:

MUF has no bearing on sporadic e propogation. Sporadic e will
appear
as
high as 144 MHz.

Best regards from Rochester, NY
Jim

Jim, you have been hanging with the Cbers too long the MUF does have
a bearing on sporadic e in fact it plays a major part, doesn't sound
like you know what it means by your reply.


Correct, but I was thinking in the terms of what is published
concerning future 'estimated' MUF,

no one mentioned estimated MUF





in which case they are looking for
F layer reflection. Heck, if you consider the moon, 24 GHz has been
successfully used - but I wouldn't consider 24 GHz as the MUF. The
original post was stating that 11 meters (or 10) was dead. The
consideration is that the sunspot cycle is in such decline that,
normally, F layer propagation won't be available. My response was
that sporadic e does exist - but not everywhere at once. The bands do
open, despite the MUF being far lower in frequency. I get the feeling
that you are simply trying to say I'm wrong; I was simply speaking out
against the generalities.

You are wrong, you made a claim that was 100% incorrect saying that MUF
has nothing to do with sporadic e.



Best regards from Rochester, NY
Jim

And since 24 GHz moonbounce has been achieve running less than 100 watts
output, I assume that the MUF is at least 24 GHz. I also doubt that the d
layer, e layer, or f layer (or sporadic e) has anything to do with it. Most
likely, the phase of the moon (less illumination from the sun means less
noise) and its' distance from the earth. In any event, I assume the
question has been settled. MUF is a minimum of 24 GHz everywhere. Funny,
but that 10 meter band is still open at times to some places and not others.

I would gently remind you that the original problem was someone (Twisty)
saying a band was open whilst someone else maintained it was not. That was
my point about sporadic e.

With all due kindest of regards from Rochester, NY
Jim



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In , "Jim Hampton"
wrote:

snip
Most
likely, the phase of the moon (less illumination from the sun means less
noise) and its' distance from the earth.


Huh? I'm no expert in microwaves, but I don't see how sunlight can be
the cause of noise in a lower part of the EM spectrum, unless the
effect is caused indirectly.






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"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message
...
In , "Jim Hampton"
wrote:

snip
Most
likely, the phase of the moon (less illumination from the sun means less
noise) and its' distance from the earth.


Huh? I'm no expert in microwaves, but I don't see how sunlight can be
the cause of noise in a lower part of the EM spectrum, unless the
effect is caused indirectly.

Frank,

Do a Google search on blackbody radiation. The sun radiates far more than
light. There is uv (I'm sure you're aware), plus microwave, plus lower
frequencies as well. The temperature of the body determines where the bell
curve of frequency of radiation will peak, but there is a heck of a lot of
other radiation too.

Best regards from Rochester, NY
Jim



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On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 06:59:01 GMT, "Jim Hampton"
wrote:


"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message
.. .
In , "Jim Hampton"
wrote:

snip
Most
likely, the phase of the moon (less illumination from the sun means less
noise) and its' distance from the earth.


Huh? I'm no expert in microwaves, but I don't see how sunlight can be
the cause of noise in a lower part of the EM spectrum, unless the
effect is caused indirectly.

Frank,

Do a Google search on blackbody radiation. The sun radiates far more than
light. There is uv (I'm sure you're aware), plus microwave, plus lower
frequencies as well. The temperature of the body determines where the bell
curve of frequency of radiation will peak, but there is a heck of a lot of
other radiation too.


The sun most definitely radiates noise. Ask any satellite TV user
about "sun outages" during the spring and fall when the sun is in
direct line with the satellites. You can literally watch the noise
floor rise along with the sun. At some point, the noise is high enough
that it starts playing havoc with the S/N ratio of analog signals and
the BER of digital ones.

Dave
"Sandbagger"

In , Dave Hall
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 06:59:01 GMT, "Jim Hampton"
wrote:


"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message
. ..
In , "Jim Hampton"
wrote:

snip
Most
likely, the phase of the moon (less illumination from the sun means less
noise) and its' distance from the earth.


Huh? I'm no expert in microwaves, but I don't see how sunlight can be
the cause of noise in a lower part of the EM spectrum, unless the
effect is caused indirectly.

Frank,

Do a Google search on blackbody radiation. The sun radiates far more than
light. There is uv (I'm sure you're aware), plus microwave, plus lower
frequencies as well. The temperature of the body determines where the bell
curve of frequency of radiation will peak, but there is a heck of a lot of
other radiation too.


The sun most definitely radiates noise. Ask any satellite TV user
about "sun outages" during the spring and fall when the sun is in
direct line with the satellites. You can literally watch the noise
floor rise along with the sun. At some point, the noise is high enough
that it starts playing havoc with the S/N ratio of analog signals and
the BER of digital ones.

Dave
"Sandbagger"


The sun most definitely radiates noise up and down the spectrum. I am
curious how microwaves (24 GHz) are subject to refraction by the
magentosphere, and whether they are refracted to a greater or lesser
degree than visible light (the effect of which which is negligible).
IOW, solar microwave noise could be refracted onto, and therefore
reflected from, surfaces of the moon that aren't directly illuminated
by sunlight. I'm sure that's the case, but I have no idea if it makes
any practical difference.







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