On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 05:00:04 GMT, SideBand wrote:

Vinnie S. wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 02:56:39 GMT, SideBand wrote:


That I can do. I got 16" between the joists, and stick the coil directly under
the antenna. So if you are looking from an overhead view, the antenna is
directly in the middle of the open part of the coil. The GP wires will be over
it. Is this correct? It sounds like a plan.

Thanks for your help !






Vinnie S.
Yep.. you got it this time. Looking down the antenna, you're looking at
an "O" (the choke) with the antenna being the center point of the
circle. Wires physically above the coil.

Good luck.

That's what us HAMs are supposed to be here for.

-SSB


The PVC condiut is up. I ran a conduit so I can run the coax right to the
basement, from the attic. I will make a run tomorrow to get coax and supplies.
The Firestik arrived.

Also, I roughly measured the distance to the tree where I want to put a
permanent antenna. The distance is huge, about 275 feet of total coax. I figured
I can use LMR-400DB (direct burial). I estimate about 2 dB loss at that
distance. How much power loss is that on a HR-2510, using a Imax-2000 with a GP
kit, assuming a good SWR? I am not running power. Will that antenna offset that
loss by itself?I really don't have a choice. It's not going on the house.
Besides, the damn house is too low anyway. I can get way higher on the tree.

Vinnie S.

Vinnie S. wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 05:00:04 GMT, SideBand wrote:


Vinnie S. wrote:

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 02:56:39 GMT, SideBand wrote:


That I can do. I got 16" between the joists, and stick the coil directly under
the antenna. So if you are looking from an overhead view, the antenna is
directly in the middle of the open part of the coil. The GP wires will be over
it. Is this correct? It sounds like a plan.

Thanks for your help !






Vinnie S.

Yep.. you got it this time. Looking down the antenna, you're looking at
an "O" (the choke) with the antenna being the center point of the
circle. Wires physically above the coil.

Good luck.

That's what us HAMs are supposed to be here for.

-SSB



The PVC condiut is up. I ran a conduit so I can run the coax right to the
basement, from the attic. I will make a run tomorrow to get coax and supplies.
The Firestik arrived.

Also, I roughly measured the distance to the tree where I want to put a
permanent antenna. The distance is huge, about 275 feet of total coax. I figured
I can use LMR-400DB (direct burial). I estimate about 2 dB loss at that
distance. How much power loss is that on a HR-2510, using a Imax-2000 with a GP
kit, assuming a good SWR? I am not running power. Will that antenna offset that
loss by itself?I really don't have a choice. It's not going on the house.
Besides, the damn house is too low anyway. I can get way higher on the tree.

Vinnie S.

Vin:

Your loss will actually fall somewhere between 1.89 and 2dB.

2 db equates to roughly 23% power loss, assuming 1:1 SWR at the antenna.
Since 1:1 isn't easily attained (you can't get it with a resonant dipole
or a 1/4 wave whip without some sort of feed point matching, and then
you lose some radiation efficiency), you can assume you're going to get
some additional feed line (coax) losses (heating, mostly) because of
the mismatch at the antenna. For that run I would highly suggest
staying away from coax and see if you can find some 200 ohm twinlead.
Output coax from the radio to the outside to a 4:1 balun to the twinlead
to a 4:1 balun (in reverse), to about 20 feet of coax to the antenna.
Losses will be MUCH lower than with coax.

The other option would be 450 ohm twinlead (ladderline) and a 9:1 balun
at both ends. Ladderline is running about $0.19 +/- a foot, depending on
where you're getting it. The cost for the baluns and the ladderline WILL
be less than the run of LMR400.

The caveat here will be that you will need to keep the ladderline well
away from ALL metal.. within about a foot of the ladderline.

For that long of a run, I would personally run a pair of 9:1 baluns and
the 450 ohm ladderline. The cost and the losses will be lowest there.

The reason for the 25' of coax at the antenna end is to keep the
ladderline from being unbalanced by the antenna.

Estimated losses for the 9:1's and 450 ohm... .6 db (and that's at the
highest), depending on the quality of the baluns. Less than 5% power
loss, and not quite so much effect due to poor SWR at the end.

Your dipole should see about a 1.3:1 - 1.5:1 SWR across the CB band. If
it's possible to make a "V" antenna in the branches (inverted or not)
the SWR could be lower, and you could definitely see some improvements
over a vertical dipole.

HTH

-SSB

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 03:23:53 GMT, SideBand wrote:


The PVC condiut is up. I ran a conduit so I can run the coax right to the
basement, from the attic. I will make a run tomorrow to get coax and supplies.
The Firestik arrived.

Also, I roughly measured the distance to the tree where I want to put a
permanent antenna. The distance is huge, about 275 feet of total coax. I figured
I can use LMR-400DB (direct burial). I estimate about 2 dB loss at that
distance. How much power loss is that on a HR-2510, using a Imax-2000 with a GP
kit, assuming a good SWR? I am not running power. Will that antenna offset that
loss by itself?I really don't have a choice. It's not going on the house.
Besides, the damn house is too low anyway. I can get way higher on the tree.

Vinnie S.

Vin:

Your loss will actually fall somewhere between 1.89 and 2dB.

2 db equates to roughly 23% power loss, assuming 1:1 SWR at the antenna.
Since 1:1 isn't easily attained (you can't get it with a resonant dipole
or a 1/4 wave whip without some sort of feed point matching, and then
you lose some radiation efficiency), you can assume you're going to get
some additional feed line (coax) losses (heating, mostly) because of
the mismatch at the antenna. For that run I would highly suggest
staying away from coax and see if you can find some 200 ohm twinlead.
Output coax from the radio to the outside to a 4:1 balun to the twinlead
to a 4:1 balun (in reverse), to about 20 feet of coax to the antenna.
Losses will be MUCH lower than with coax.

If I have the HR-2510 at 10 Watts DK, I am still putting out about 7.5 watts. If
I turn up the DK to about 20 watts, I can still transmit about 15.5 watts. I
guess that is not bad.

I guess the point is I can still get at least the power of a standard CB with an
antenna directly overhead.

The other option would be 450 ohm twinlead (ladderline) and a 9:1 balun
at both ends. Ladderline is running about $0.19 +/- a foot, depending on
where you're getting it. The cost for the baluns and the ladderline WILL
be less than the run of LMR400.


The caveat here will be that you will need to keep the ladderline well
away from ALL metal.. within about a foot of the ladderline.

This will be a major problem. I have all my plumbing well within a foot, across
the entire length of the house. All where I would bring the ladder line into the
house. I cannot move the entry point without some serious digging and entering
from the front of the house. There are numerous obstacles like the driveway and
sidewalk. I will have to look into the 200 ohm twin lead.

For that long of a run, I would personally run a pair of 9:1 baluns and
the 450 ohm ladderline. The cost and the losses will be lowest there.

The reason for the 25' of coax at the antenna end is to keep the
ladderline from being unbalanced by the antenna.

Estimated losses for the 9:1's and 450 ohm... .6 db (and that's at the
highest), depending on the quality of the baluns. Less than 5% power
loss, and not quite so much effect due to poor SWR at the end.



Your dipole should see about a 1.3:1 - 1.5:1 SWR across the CB band. If
it's possible to make a "V" antenna in the branches (inverted or not)
the SWR could be lower, and you could definitely see some improvements
over a vertical dipole.


In the attic, I am using a 6 foot Firestik. It is the highest I can go up there.
It is an electrical 5/8 wave, though physical 6 feet. I am using 8 pieces of 9
foot wires as a ground plane. Luckily, I have electricians in the family. This
should work OK for now?

Vinnie S.

"Lancer" wrote in message
news:dhcnv0h9f7k8qtlq1fjbrn0ef8t35mojgm@2355323778 ...
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 08:35:18 -0500, Vinnie S.
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 03:23:53 GMT, SideBand wrote:


The PVC condiut is up. I ran a conduit so I can run the coax right to
the
basement, from the attic. I will make a run tomorrow to get coax and
supplies.
The Firestik arrived.

Also, I roughly measured the distance to the tree where I want to put a
permanent antenna. The distance is huge, about 275 feet of total coax.
I figured
I can use LMR-400DB (direct burial). I estimate about 2 dB loss at that
distance. How much power loss is that on a HR-2510, using a Imax-2000
with a GP
kit, assuming a good SWR? I am not running power. Will that antenna
offset that
loss by itself?I really don't have a choice. It's not going on the
house.
Besides, the damn house is too low anyway. I can get way higher on the
tree.

Vinnie S.

Vin:

Your loss will actually fall somewhere between 1.89 and 2dB.

2 db equates to roughly 23% power loss, assuming 1:1 SWR at the antenna.
Since 1:1 isn't easily attained (you can't get it with a resonant dipole
or a 1/4 wave whip without some sort of feed point matching, and then
you lose some radiation efficiency), you can assume you're going to get
some additional feed line (coax) losses (heating, mostly) because of
the mismatch at the antenna. For that run I would highly suggest
staying away from coax and see if you can find some 200 ohm twinlead.
Output coax from the radio to the outside to a 4:1 balun to the twinlead
to a 4:1 balun (in reverse), to about 20 feet of coax to the antenna.
Losses will be MUCH lower than with coax.

If I have the HR-2510 at 10 Watts DK, I am still putting out about 7.5
watts. If
I turn up the DK to about 20 watts, I can still transmit about 15.5 watts.
I
guess that is not bad.

I guess the point is I can still get at least the power of a standard CB
with an
antenna directly overhead.

The other option would be 450 ohm twinlead (ladderline) and a 9:1 balun
at both ends. Ladderline is running about $0.19 +/- a foot, depending on
where you're getting it. The cost for the baluns and the ladderline WILL
be less than the run of LMR400.


The caveat here will be that you will need to keep the ladderline well
away from ALL metal.. within about a foot of the ladderline.

This will be a major problem. I have all my plumbing well within a foot,
across
the entire length of the house. All where I would bring the ladder line
into the
house. I cannot move the entry point without some serious digging and
entering
from the front of the house. There are numerous obstacles like the
driveway and
sidewalk. I will have to look into the 200 ohm twin lead.

For that long of a run, I would personally run a pair of 9:1 baluns and
the 450 ohm ladderline. The cost and the losses will be lowest there.

The reason for the 25' of coax at the antenna end is to keep the
ladderline from being unbalanced by the antenna.

Estimated losses for the 9:1's and 450 ohm... .6 db (and that's at the
highest), depending on the quality of the baluns. Less than 5% power
loss, and not quite so much effect due to poor SWR at the end.



Your dipole should see about a 1.3:1 - 1.5:1 SWR across the CB band. If
it's possible to make a "V" antenna in the branches (inverted or not)
the SWR could be lower, and you could definitely see some improvements
over a vertical dipole.


In the attic, I am using a 6 foot Firestik. It is the highest I can go up
there.
It is an electrical 5/8 wave, though physical 6 feet. I am using 8 pieces
of 9
foot wires as a ground plane. Luckily, I have electricians in the family.
This
should work OK for now?

Vinnie S.

Your firestick is not an electrical 5/8 wave, the only thing 5.8 wave
about the firestick is the length of wire the wind on the antenna.

Lancer, does the term "electrical" not indicate the length of wire? He did
not say physical.

"Lancer" wrote in message
news:h0dnv09thrmmfbmtln9llck6p044ufscfl@2355323778 ...
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 03:23:53 GMT, SideBand wrote:

Vinnie S. wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 05:00:04 GMT, SideBand wrote:


Vinnie S. wrote:

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 02:56:39 GMT, SideBand wrote:


That I can do. I got 16" between the joists, and stick the coil
directly under
the antenna. So if you are looking from an overhead view, the antenna
is
directly in the middle of the open part of the coil. The GP wires will
be over
it. Is this correct? It sounds like a plan.

Thanks for your help !






Vinnie S.

Yep.. you got it this time. Looking down the antenna, you're looking at
an "O" (the choke) with the antenna being the center point of the
circle. Wires physically above the coil.

Good luck.

That's what us HAMs are supposed to be here for.

-SSB



The PVC condiut is up. I ran a conduit so I can run the coax right to
the
basement, from the attic. I will make a run tomorrow to get coax and
supplies.
The Firestik arrived.

Also, I roughly measured the distance to the tree where I want to put a
permanent antenna. The distance is huge, about 275 feet of total coax. I
figured
I can use LMR-400DB (direct burial). I estimate about 2 dB loss at that
distance. How much power loss is that on a HR-2510, using a Imax-2000
with a GP
kit, assuming a good SWR? I am not running power. Will that antenna
offset that
loss by itself?I really don't have a choice. It's not going on the
house.
Besides, the damn house is too low anyway. I can get way higher on the
tree.

Vinnie S.

Vin:

Your loss will actually fall somewhere between 1.89 and 2dB.

2 db equates to roughly 23% power loss, assuming 1:1 SWR at the antenna.
Since 1:1 isn't easily attained (you can't get it with a resonant dipole
or a 1/4 wave whip without some sort of feed point matching, and then
you lose some radiation efficiency), you can assume you're going to get
some additional feed line (coax) losses (heating, mostly) because of
the mismatch at the antenna. For that run I would highly suggest
staying away from coax and see if you can find some 200 ohm twinlead.
Output coax from the radio to the outside to a 4:1 balun to the twinlead
to a 4:1 balun (in reverse), to about 20 feet of coax to the antenna.
Losses will be MUCH lower than with coax.

The other option would be 450 ohm twinlead (ladderline) and a 9:1 balun
at both ends. Ladderline is running about $0.19 +/- a foot, depending on
where you're getting it. The cost for the baluns and the ladderline WILL
be less than the run of LMR400.

Great idea, trash one of baluns and use a MFJ-949E at the transmitter
end..


The caveat here will be that you will need to keep the ladderline well
away from ALL metal.. within about a foot of the ladderline.

For that long of a run, I would personally run a pair of 9:1 baluns and
the 450 ohm ladderline. The cost and the losses will be lowest there.

The reason for the 25' of coax at the antenna end is to keep the
ladderline from being unbalanced by the antenna.

Isn't that why you put a balun on the antenna end?

Why use 25 feet?


Estimated losses for the 9:1's and 450 ohm... .6 db (and that's at the
highest), depending on the quality of the baluns. Less than 5% power
loss, and not quite so much effect due to poor SWR at the end.

Your dipole should see about a 1.3:1 - 1.5:1 SWR across the CB band. If
it's possible to make a "V" antenna in the branches (inverted or not)
the SWR could be lower, and you could definitely see some improvements
over a vertical dipole.

HTH

-SSB

If he is going to build an inverted V , or dipole there is no reason
to use a balun at all.. ladder line to the antenna, and tuner at the
transmit end..

Maybe the output of the radio is a reason? I have yet to see a CB with
balanced output.

"U Know Who" wrote in message
...

"Lancer" wrote in message
news:h0dnv09thrmmfbmtln9llck6p044ufscfl@2355323778 ...
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 03:23:53 GMT, SideBand wrote:

Vinnie S. wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 05:00:04 GMT, SideBand wrote:


Vinnie S. wrote:

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 02:56:39 GMT, SideBand wrote:


That I can do. I got 16" between the joists, and stick the coil
directly under
the antenna. So if you are looking from an overhead view, the antenna
is
directly in the middle of the open part of the coil. The GP wires will
be over
it. Is this correct? It sounds like a plan.

Thanks for your help !






Vinnie S.

Yep.. you got it this time. Looking down the antenna, you're looking at
an "O" (the choke) with the antenna being the center point of the
circle. Wires physically above the coil.

Good luck.

That's what us HAMs are supposed to be here for.

-SSB



The PVC condiut is up. I ran a conduit so I can run the coax right to
the
basement, from the attic. I will make a run tomorrow to get coax and
supplies.
The Firestik arrived.

Also, I roughly measured the distance to the tree where I want to put a
permanent antenna. The distance is huge, about 275 feet of total coax.
I figured
I can use LMR-400DB (direct burial). I estimate about 2 dB loss at that
distance. How much power loss is that on a HR-2510, using a Imax-2000
with a GP
kit, assuming a good SWR? I am not running power. Will that antenna
offset that
loss by itself?I really don't have a choice. It's not going on the
house.
Besides, the damn house is too low anyway. I can get way higher on the
tree.

Vinnie S.

Vin:

Your loss will actually fall somewhere between 1.89 and 2dB.

2 db equates to roughly 23% power loss, assuming 1:1 SWR at the antenna.
Since 1:1 isn't easily attained (you can't get it with a resonant dipole
or a 1/4 wave whip without some sort of feed point matching, and then
you lose some radiation efficiency), you can assume you're going to get
some additional feed line (coax) losses (heating, mostly) because of
the mismatch at the antenna. For that run I would highly suggest
staying away from coax and see if you can find some 200 ohm twinlead.
Output coax from the radio to the outside to a 4:1 balun to the twinlead
to a 4:1 balun (in reverse), to about 20 feet of coax to the antenna.
Losses will be MUCH lower than with coax.

The other option would be 450 ohm twinlead (ladderline) and a 9:1 balun
at both ends. Ladderline is running about $0.19 +/- a foot, depending on
where you're getting it. The cost for the baluns and the ladderline WILL
be less than the run of LMR400.

Great idea, trash one of baluns and use a MFJ-949E at the transmitter
end..


The caveat here will be that you will need to keep the ladderline well
away from ALL metal.. within about a foot of the ladderline.

For that long of a run, I would personally run a pair of 9:1 baluns and
the 450 ohm ladderline. The cost and the losses will be lowest there.

The reason for the 25' of coax at the antenna end is to keep the
ladderline from being unbalanced by the antenna.

Isn't that why you put a balun on the antenna end?

Why use 25 feet?


Estimated losses for the 9:1's and 450 ohm... .6 db (and that's at the
highest), depending on the quality of the baluns. Less than 5% power
loss, and not quite so much effect due to poor SWR at the end.

Your dipole should see about a 1.3:1 - 1.5:1 SWR across the CB band. If
it's possible to make a "V" antenna in the branches (inverted or not)
the SWR could be lower, and you could definitely see some improvements
over a vertical dipole.

HTH

-SSB

If he is going to build an inverted V , or dipole there is no reason
to use a balun at all.. ladder line to the antenna, and tuner at the
transmit end..

Maybe the output of the radio is a reason? I have yet to see a CB with
balanced output.


Although cheap and nasty, the choke method works, without investing in the
cost of a tuner.

Vinnie S. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 03:23:53 GMT, SideBand wrote:



The PVC condiut is up. I ran a conduit so I can run the coax right to the
basement, from the attic. I will make a run tomorrow to get coax and supplies.
The Firestik arrived.

Also, I roughly measured the distance to the tree where I want to put a
permanent antenna. The distance is huge, about 275 feet of total coax. I figured
I can use LMR-400DB (direct burial). I estimate about 2 dB loss at that
distance. How much power loss is that on a HR-2510, using a Imax-2000 with a GP
kit, assuming a good SWR? I am not running power. Will that antenna offset that
loss by itself?I really don't have a choice. It's not going on the house.
Besides, the damn house is too low anyway. I can get way higher on the tree.

Vinnie S.

Vin:

Your loss will actually fall somewhere between 1.89 and 2dB.

2 db equates to roughly 23% power loss, assuming 1:1 SWR at the antenna.
Since 1:1 isn't easily attained (you can't get it with a resonant dipole
or a 1/4 wave whip without some sort of feed point matching, and then
you lose some radiation efficiency), you can assume you're going to get
some additional feed line (coax) losses (heating, mostly) because of
the mismatch at the antenna. For that run I would highly suggest
staying away from coax and see if you can find some 200 ohm twinlead.
Output coax from the radio to the outside to a 4:1 balun to the twinlead
to a 4:1 balun (in reverse), to about 20 feet of coax to the antenna.
Losses will be MUCH lower than with coax.


If I have the HR-2510 at 10 Watts DK, I am still putting out about 7.5 watts. If
I turn up the DK to about 20 watts, I can still transmit about 15.5 watts. I
guess that is not bad.

I guess the point is I can still get at least the power of a standard CB with an
antenna directly overhead.


The other option would be 450 ohm twinlead (ladderline) and a 9:1 balun
at both ends. Ladderline is running about $0.19 +/- a foot, depending on
where you're getting it. The cost for the baluns and the ladderline WILL
be less than the run of LMR400.



The caveat here will be that you will need to keep the ladderline well
away from ALL metal.. within about a foot of the ladderline.


This will be a major problem. I have all my plumbing well within a foot, across
the entire length of the house. All where I would bring the ladder line into the
house. I cannot move the entry point without some serious digging and entering
from the front of the house. There are numerous obstacles like the driveway and
sidewalk. I will have to look into the 200 ohm twin lead.


For that long of a run, I would personally run a pair of 9:1 baluns and
the 450 ohm ladderline. The cost and the losses will be lowest there.

The reason for the 25' of coax at the antenna end is to keep the
ladderline from being unbalanced by the antenna.

Estimated losses for the 9:1's and 450 ohm... .6 db (and that's at the
highest), depending on the quality of the baluns. Less than 5% power
loss, and not quite so much effect due to poor SWR at the end.




Your dipole should see about a 1.3:1 - 1.5:1 SWR across the CB band. If
it's possible to make a "V" antenna in the branches (inverted or not)
the SWR could be lower, and you could definitely see some improvements
over a vertical dipole.



In the attic, I am using a 6 foot Firestik. It is the highest I can go up there.
It is an electrical 5/8 wave, though physical 6 feet. I am using 8 pieces of 9
foot wires as a ground plane. Luckily, I have electricians in the family. This
should work OK for now?

Vinnie S.

No, no...

You'd use coax to get out of the house, use the balun to switch to the
ladderline OUTSIDE the house, then switch back to coax thru the other
balun 20'-25' from the antenna.

-SSB

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 19:49:38 GMT, SideBand wrote:



That can work !

Vinnie S.

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 18:56:30 GMT, "U Know Who" wrote:


"Lancer" wrote in message
news:dhcnv0h9f7k8qtlq1fjbrn0ef8t35mojgm@235532377 8...
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 08:35:18 -0500, Vinnie S.
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 03:23:53 GMT, SideBand wrote:


The PVC condiut is up. I ran a conduit so I can run the coax right to
the
basement, from the attic. I will make a run tomorrow to get coax and
supplies.
The Firestik arrived.

Also, I roughly measured the distance to the tree where I want to put a
permanent antenna. The distance is huge, about 275 feet of total coax.
I figured
I can use LMR-400DB (direct burial). I estimate about 2 dB loss at that
distance. How much power loss is that on a HR-2510, using a Imax-2000
with a GP
kit, assuming a good SWR? I am not running power. Will that antenna
offset that
loss by itself?I really don't have a choice. It's not going on the
house.
Besides, the damn house is too low anyway. I can get way higher on the
tree.

Vinnie S.

Vin:

Your loss will actually fall somewhere between 1.89 and 2dB.

2 db equates to roughly 23% power loss, assuming 1:1 SWR at the antenna.
Since 1:1 isn't easily attained (you can't get it with a resonant dipole
or a 1/4 wave whip without some sort of feed point matching, and then
you lose some radiation efficiency), you can assume you're going to get
some additional feed line (coax) losses (heating, mostly) because of
the mismatch at the antenna. For that run I would highly suggest
staying away from coax and see if you can find some 200 ohm twinlead.
Output coax from the radio to the outside to a 4:1 balun to the twinlead
to a 4:1 balun (in reverse), to about 20 feet of coax to the antenna.
Losses will be MUCH lower than with coax.

If I have the HR-2510 at 10 Watts DK, I am still putting out about 7.5
watts. If
I turn up the DK to about 20 watts, I can still transmit about 15.5 watts.
I
guess that is not bad.

I guess the point is I can still get at least the power of a standard CB
with an
antenna directly overhead.

The other option would be 450 ohm twinlead (ladderline) and a 9:1 balun
at both ends. Ladderline is running about $0.19 +/- a foot, depending on
where you're getting it. The cost for the baluns and the ladderline WILL
be less than the run of LMR400.


The caveat here will be that you will need to keep the ladderline well
away from ALL metal.. within about a foot of the ladderline.

This will be a major problem. I have all my plumbing well within a foot,
across
the entire length of the house. All where I would bring the ladder line
into the
house. I cannot move the entry point without some serious digging and
entering
from the front of the house. There are numerous obstacles like the
driveway and
sidewalk. I will have to look into the 200 ohm twin lead.

For that long of a run, I would personally run a pair of 9:1 baluns and
the 450 ohm ladderline. The cost and the losses will be lowest there.

The reason for the 25' of coax at the antenna end is to keep the
ladderline from being unbalanced by the antenna.

Estimated losses for the 9:1's and 450 ohm... .6 db (and that's at the
highest), depending on the quality of the baluns. Less than 5% power
loss, and not quite so much effect due to poor SWR at the end.



Your dipole should see about a 1.3:1 - 1.5:1 SWR across the CB band. If
it's possible to make a "V" antenna in the branches (inverted or not)
the SWR could be lower, and you could definitely see some improvements
over a vertical dipole.


In the attic, I am using a 6 foot Firestik. It is the highest I can go up
there.
It is an electrical 5/8 wave, though physical 6 feet. I am using 8 pieces
of 9
foot wires as a ground plane. Luckily, I have electricians in the family.
This
should work OK for now?

Vinnie S.

Your firestick is not an electrical 5/8 wave, the only thing 5.8 wave
about the firestick is the length of wire the wind on the antenna.

Lancer, does the term "electrical" not indicate the length of wire? He did
not say physical.



Here is my quote:

"It is an electrical 5/8 wave, though physical 6 feet."

Here is the Firestik website.

http://www.firestik.com/CatalogFrame.htm

3. Some "experts" may "claim" 5/8 wave mobile antennas are not possible because
they would need to be 23 feet high. They are wrong! Physical length and ground
wave performance are not the same. If you ever hear someone make that claim, ask
them how a handheld CB can have a 1/4 wave antenna 8 inches long and mobile 1/4
wave antennas can be anywhere from 12-60 inches long in spite of the fact that a
physical 1/4 wave is 108 inches.

Vinnie S.

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 17:52:30 -0500, Vinnie S.
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 18:56:30 GMT, "U Know Who" wrote:


"Lancer" wrote in message
news:dhcnv0h9f7k8qtlq1fjbrn0ef8t35mojgm@23553237 78...
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 08:35:18 -0500, Vinnie S.
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 03:23:53 GMT, SideBand wrote:


The PVC condiut is up. I ran a conduit so I can run the coax right to
the
basement, from the attic. I will make a run tomorrow to get coax and
supplies.
The Firestik arrived.

Also, I roughly measured the distance to the tree where I want to put a
permanent antenna. The distance is huge, about 275 feet of total coax.
I figured
I can use LMR-400DB (direct burial). I estimate about 2 dB loss at that
distance. How much power loss is that on a HR-2510, using a Imax-2000
with a GP
kit, assuming a good SWR? I am not running power. Will that antenna
offset that
loss by itself?I really don't have a choice. It's not going on the
house.
Besides, the damn house is too low anyway. I can get way higher on the
tree.

Vinnie S.

Vin:

Your loss will actually fall somewhere between 1.89 and 2dB.

2 db equates to roughly 23% power loss, assuming 1:1 SWR at the antenna.
Since 1:1 isn't easily attained (you can't get it with a resonant dipole
or a 1/4 wave whip without some sort of feed point matching, and then
you lose some radiation efficiency), you can assume you're going to get
some additional feed line (coax) losses (heating, mostly) because of
the mismatch at the antenna. For that run I would highly suggest
staying away from coax and see if you can find some 200 ohm twinlead.
Output coax from the radio to the outside to a 4:1 balun to the twinlead
to a 4:1 balun (in reverse), to about 20 feet of coax to the antenna.
Losses will be MUCH lower than with coax.

If I have the HR-2510 at 10 Watts DK, I am still putting out about 7.5
watts. If
I turn up the DK to about 20 watts, I can still transmit about 15.5 watts.
I
guess that is not bad.

I guess the point is I can still get at least the power of a standard CB
with an
antenna directly overhead.

The other option would be 450 ohm twinlead (ladderline) and a 9:1 balun
at both ends. Ladderline is running about $0.19 +/- a foot, depending on
where you're getting it. The cost for the baluns and the ladderline WILL
be less than the run of LMR400.


The caveat here will be that you will need to keep the ladderline well
away from ALL metal.. within about a foot of the ladderline.

This will be a major problem. I have all my plumbing well within a foot,
across
the entire length of the house. All where I would bring the ladder line
into the
house. I cannot move the entry point without some serious digging and
entering
from the front of the house. There are numerous obstacles like the
driveway and
sidewalk. I will have to look into the 200 ohm twin lead.

For that long of a run, I would personally run a pair of 9:1 baluns and
the 450 ohm ladderline. The cost and the losses will be lowest there.

The reason for the 25' of coax at the antenna end is to keep the
ladderline from being unbalanced by the antenna.

Estimated losses for the 9:1's and 450 ohm... .6 db (and that's at the
highest), depending on the quality of the baluns. Less than 5% power
loss, and not quite so much effect due to poor SWR at the end.



Your dipole should see about a 1.3:1 - 1.5:1 SWR across the CB band. If
it's possible to make a "V" antenna in the branches (inverted or not)
the SWR could be lower, and you could definitely see some improvements
over a vertical dipole.


In the attic, I am using a 6 foot Firestik. It is the highest I can go up
there.
It is an electrical 5/8 wave, though physical 6 feet. I am using 8 pieces
of 9
foot wires as a ground plane. Luckily, I have electricians in the family.
This
should work OK for now?

Vinnie S.

Your firestick is not an electrical 5/8 wave, the only thing 5.8 wave
about the firestick is the length of wire the wind on the antenna.

Lancer, does the term "electrical" not indicate the length of wire? He did
not say physical.



Here is my quote:

"It is an electrical 5/8 wave, though physical 6 feet."

Here is the Firestik website.

http://www.firestik.com/CatalogFrame.htm

3. Some "experts" may "claim" 5/8 wave mobile antennas are not possible because
they would need to be 23 feet high. They are wrong! Physical length and ground
wave performance are not the same. If you ever hear someone make that claim, ask
them how a handheld CB can have a 1/4 wave antenna 8 inches long and mobile 1/4
wave antennas can be anywhere from 12-60 inches long in spite of the fact that a
physical 1/4 wave is 108 inches.

Vinnie S.

LOL! Looks like the same e-mail that firestick sent to me when I told
them they didn't have a 6 foot 5/8 wave antenna.

A 5/8 wave antenna a feedpoint impedance of about
150 - j600 ohms.

Now if you think that will match your CB, hey more power to you.
I have this bridge for sale... you know the rest...

You have a 6 foot antenna that is 1/4 wave electrical length..

They are good antennas, but they are not a 5/8 wave antenna...