"K7MEM" wrote in message
...
cl wrote:
"K7MEM" wrote in message
...

Vinnie S. wrote:

I have about half the alphabet down at 5 WPM. But I don't think I am
going to
have enough time. Test is next Sat. I think I need more practice. Vinnie
S.

There is no substitute for being prepared, but take the test anyway.

Years ago, the only way to pass the CW tests was to have one full
minute of solid copy on your copy sheet. Now, you can pass the CW
test two ways. If you have one full minute of solid copy, your done.
However if you don't, you can take the 10 question test. You may have
copied enough characters to guess at the answers. The process of
elimination will help you on many of them. Get a copy of Morse
Academy, if you don't already have it. The built in sample tests
are exactly the same as the real test. If I remember correctly, you
only have to get 7 out of 10 to pass. The odds are in your favor.

I have seen people pass the 13 and 20 WPM tests with only a smattering
of characters on their copy sheet. For me, The key was to be able to
copy a little bit faster than the required speed. That way I was
comfortable with the testing speed. Some people come by CW naturally,
but for me, it took a long time to get to the needed speeds. But
then, no one has to worry about the 13 and 20 WPM tests any more.

Just try to be calm and realize that it's not the end of the world
if you fail. Get the certificates for the tests you do pass and
go back the next testing session. Some testing stations will even
let you try again, after a short rest to collect your thoughts.

And don't discount using CW, when you finally get your license. It's
a fun mode to use, just like any other mode. The more you use it,
the better you get at it, and the more fun you have. And that's what
it's all about, having fun.

--
Martin E. Meserve - K7MEM
http://www.k7mem.com
(remove _nospam_ from my email to reply)


That may not work anymore. Used to be, the 10 questions were usually
"multiple choice". If you had enough letters or characters to take a good
stab at the answer, yes, you could conceivably pass. BUT.... I was told
that the VE systems, at least W5YI (who I go through) - changed their
system to require "fill in the blanks" - no more multiple choice. That
means if there was an error sent on purpose of say "antena" and you were
to assume - having not copied the whole word in code, that it was
"antenna" - and you wrote "antenna" on the blank - you failed that
question. You're supposed to copy the message AS IT IS SENT. NO ERRORS.
If they send all words correctly, you best have all words you need to
write down - spelled correctly. IF they have a misspelled word, you
better have it too. If the word starts with a C and you assumed wrong and
wrote another character down, let's face it, you're not going to answer a
particular question correctly, if that word has to do with it. Then too,
with our wacky English language, you could have To, Two, Too...... just
as an example. While the words to and too may not be on the test as an
answer, the word Two - could be as in Two Feet, Two Meters, or any other
applicable combination. It all depends. If they use standard run of mill
tests, he may never see that. IF "THEY" make up their own exams, as they
are allowed to do, Lord only knows what may be in there. A misspelling of
the word or an assumption could be costly. He could catch the first and
last letter and "assume" the middle, not knowing for sure what it was. He
could miss the word previous or after and not see that it should have
been TWO in relation to something of height or so on. All presumptions of
course, but possibilities.

He could still take a stab at the exam. With 1/2 the code, he stands a
small chance of passing, but preparation IS the best answer. I've seen
people fail for making the stupidest of errors even with knowledge. Being
unprepared and nervous sure won't help. Whatever the case....... Good
luck!

One more notch. Our team had a guy sit in for 20 WPM. He "claimed" he
could copy it, but he had some sort of medical disorder as well - which
he brought no medical proof of for us to give him special testing - which
we would have been allowed to do. He took the exam. When done, neither he
nor us could make out his copy - to start with. He also failed the
written for the same reason. He couldn't read his own writing. Talking to
the guy, he was pretty well versed in ham and so on. Was he prepared? I
don't know. But even if he was, his dictation shot him down. It's all in
the copy on paper. We can't read what you caught in your head.

cl


Like I said at the start "There is no substitute for being prepared".

They may have changed the tests since I took mine, but the VE stations
have
a lot of leway in creating their tests. The only way to know for sure is
to
ask. Each time I went it only cost $6.45 and I could take as many test as
I wanted, each time. So I did. I took the Tech, General, and 13 WPM in one
sitting and the Advanced, Extra, and the 20 WPM in another.

As far as stories, there are just as many testers crash and burn as there
are ones that pass. Maybe more. But as I already said, it's not the end
of the world. I used Morse Academy to create a group of tests on tape.
Then I would listen two or three times a day for 15 minutes. That's all
it took for me. There is not any need to check your work. When you copy
well, you know it. When I hit 85% - 90% I would generate new ones that
were faster. Of course, it did take me several months.

--
Martin E. Meserve - K7MEM
http://www.k7mem.com
(remove _nospam_ from my email to reply)

Yes, "we" (I am an examiner) do have a lot of leeway as you say... but the
tests must still conform to the FCC/VEC's standards. Again - the code must
be error free for the minute copied OR the "fill in the blank" answers. What
we use as text, is up to us, as long as it is in the prescribed length,
timing (5 wpm), and a mixture of alphabet, numerical characters, Q signals,
etc. IF they have a handicap documented (preferably before hand), we can
accommodate them with regard to that handicap and break up the code test to
letters, numbers, words at a time, sentence at a time, etc. if need be. We
can use lights, vibrations, code keys and oscillators, etc. Though the
applicant may have to provide any special needs in equipment. The VEs are
not liable for providing special needs testing equipment or facilities.

Yes, there is nothing like preparation. It is quite amazing to see people
testing, those who have studied and those who haven't. Usually, you can
tell - just by looking around the room as they test. You can also pick out
by pre-test and post test talk - if they've studied, even if they don't
outright admit it.

cl

Vinnie S. wrote:
The General, I got 19 out of 35, without once even
looking at a book.

cb/freebander attitude; "i won't make any effort to study, i want it
handed to me"

cl wrote:
"K7MEM" wrote in message
...

cl wrote:

"K7MEM" wrote in message
...


Vinnie S. wrote:


I have about half the alphabet down at 5 WPM. But I don't think I am
going to
have enough time. Test is next Sat. I think I need more practice. Vinnie
S.

There is no substitute for being prepared, but take the test anyway.

Years ago, the only way to pass the CW tests was to have one full
minute of solid copy on your copy sheet. Now, you can pass the CW
test two ways. If you have one full minute of solid copy, your done.
However if you don't, you can take the 10 question test. You may have
copied enough characters to guess at the answers. The process of
elimination will help you on many of them. Get a copy of Morse
Academy, if you don't already have it. The built in sample tests
are exactly the same as the real test. If I remember correctly, you
only have to get 7 out of 10 to pass. The odds are in your favor.

I have seen people pass the 13 and 20 WPM tests with only a smattering
of characters on their copy sheet. For me, The key was to be able to
copy a little bit faster than the required speed. That way I was
comfortable with the testing speed. Some people come by CW naturally,
but for me, it took a long time to get to the needed speeds. But
then, no one has to worry about the 13 and 20 WPM tests any more.

Just try to be calm and realize that it's not the end of the world
if you fail. Get the certificates for the tests you do pass and
go back the next testing session. Some testing stations will even
let you try again, after a short rest to collect your thoughts.

And don't discount using CW, when you finally get your license. It's
a fun mode to use, just like any other mode. The more you use it,
the better you get at it, and the more fun you have. And that's what
it's all about, having fun.

--
Martin E. Meserve - K7MEM
http://www.k7mem.com
(remove _nospam_ from my email to reply)


That may not work anymore. Used to be, the 10 questions were usually
"multiple choice". If you had enough letters or characters to take a good
stab at the answer, yes, you could conceivably pass. BUT.... I was told
that the VE systems, at least W5YI (who I go through) - changed their
system to require "fill in the blanks" - no more multiple choice. That
means if there was an error sent on purpose of say "antena" and you were
to assume - having not copied the whole word in code, that it was
"antenna" - and you wrote "antenna" on the blank - you failed that
question. You're supposed to copy the message AS IT IS SENT. NO ERRORS.
If they send all words correctly, you best have all words you need to
write down - spelled correctly. IF they have a misspelled word, you
better have it too. If the word starts with a C and you assumed wrong and
wrote another character down, let's face it, you're not going to answer a
particular question correctly, if that word has to do with it. Then too,
with our wacky English language, you could have To, Two, Too...... just
as an example. While the words to and too may not be on the test as an
answer, the word Two - could be as in Two Feet, Two Meters, or any other
applicable combination. It all depends. If they use standard run of mill
tests, he may never see that. IF "THEY" make up their own exams, as they
are allowed to do, Lord only knows what may be in there. A misspelling of
the word or an assumption could be costly. He could catch the first and
last letter and "assume" the middle, not knowing for sure what it was. He
could miss the word previous or after and not see that it should have
been TWO in relation to something of height or so on. All presumptions of
course, but possibilities.

He could still take a stab at the exam. With 1/2 the code, he stands a
small chance of passing, but preparation IS the best answer. I've seen
people fail for making the stupidest of errors even with knowledge. Being
unprepared and nervous sure won't help. Whatever the case....... Good
luck!

One more notch. Our team had a guy sit in for 20 WPM. He "claimed" he
could copy it, but he had some sort of medical disorder as well - which
he brought no medical proof of for us to give him special testing - which
we would have been allowed to do. He took the exam. When done, neither he
nor us could make out his copy - to start with. He also failed the
written for the same reason. He couldn't read his own writing. Talking to
the guy, he was pretty well versed in ham and so on. Was he prepared? I
don't know. But even if he was, his dictation shot him down. It's all in
the copy on paper. We can't read what you caught in your head.

cl


Like I said at the start "There is no substitute for being prepared".

They may have changed the tests since I took mine, but the VE stations
have
a lot of leway in creating their tests. The only way to know for sure is
to
ask. Each time I went it only cost $6.45 and I could take as many test as
I wanted, each time. So I did. I took the Tech, General, and 13 WPM in one
sitting and the Advanced, Extra, and the 20 WPM in another.

As far as stories, there are just as many testers crash and burn as there
are ones that pass. Maybe more. But as I already said, it's not the end
of the world. I used Morse Academy to create a group of tests on tape.
Then I would listen two or three times a day for 15 minutes. That's all
it took for me. There is not any need to check your work. When you copy
well, you know it. When I hit 85% - 90% I would generate new ones that
were faster. Of course, it did take me several months.

--
Martin E. Meserve - K7MEM
http://www.k7mem.com
(remove _nospam_ from my email to reply)


Yes, "we" (I am an examiner) do have a lot of leeway as you say... but the
tests must still conform to the FCC/VEC's standards. Again - the code must
be error free for the minute copied OR the "fill in the blank" answers. What
we use as text, is up to us, as long as it is in the prescribed length,
timing (5 wpm), and a mixture of alphabet, numerical characters, Q signals,
etc. IF they have a handicap documented (preferably before hand), we can
accommodate them with regard to that handicap and break up the code test to
letters, numbers, words at a time, sentence at a time, etc. if need be. We
can use lights, vibrations, code keys and oscillators, etc. Though the
applicant may have to provide any special needs in equipment. The VEs are
not liable for providing special needs testing equipment or facilities.

Yes, there is nothing like preparation. It is quite amazing to see people
testing, those who have studied and those who haven't. Usually, you can
tell - just by looking around the room as they test. You can also pick out
by pre-test and post test talk - if they've studied, even if they don't
outright admit it.

cl

I'm just curious why they went back to exact copy, instead of leaving it
as multiple-choice, on the 10 question test. The CW test will probably go
away anyway, so I guess it really doesn't matter.

Thanks for the info.

--
Martin E. Meserve - K7MEM
http://www.k7mem.com
(remove _nospam_ from my email to reply)

Someone wrote
I'm just curious why they went back to exact copy, instead of leaving it
as multiple-choice, on the 10 question test. The CW test will probably go
away anyway, so I guess it really doesn't matter.

Thanks for the info.

In our area the VE's test as follows:

Following your listening to the QSO, we will check your copy looking for a
string of 25 characters in a row without error. If you have copied 25
characters in a row without error, you pass. Each letter in the text counts
as one (1) character, numbers, punctuation and prosigns count as two. If you
have the appropriate number of characters in a row correct, you pass the
code test.

If not, you will be provided with an answer sheet with ten questions about
the QSO you just copied. If you answer seven (7) or more correctly, you
pass.

Thus you have two chances to pass the test.

The issue of dropping the code test is before the FCC, estimates are no
action until mid year -- if then.

--
Lamont Cranston

"K7MEM" wrote in message
...


cl wrote:
"K7MEM" wrote in message
...

cl wrote:

"K7MEM" wrote in message
...


Vinnie S. wrote:


I have about half the alphabet down at 5 WPM. But I don't think I am
going to
have enough time. Test is next Sat. I think I need more practice.
Vinnie S.

There is no substitute for being prepared, but take the test anyway.

Years ago, the only way to pass the CW tests was to have one full
minute of solid copy on your copy sheet. Now, you can pass the CW
test two ways. If you have one full minute of solid copy, your done.
However if you don't, you can take the 10 question test. You may have
copied enough characters to guess at the answers. The process of
elimination will help you on many of them. Get a copy of Morse
Academy, if you don't already have it. The built in sample tests
are exactly the same as the real test. If I remember correctly, you
only have to get 7 out of 10 to pass. The odds are in your favor.

I have seen people pass the 13 and 20 WPM tests with only a smattering
of characters on their copy sheet. For me, The key was to be able to
copy a little bit faster than the required speed. That way I was
comfortable with the testing speed. Some people come by CW naturally,
but for me, it took a long time to get to the needed speeds. But
then, no one has to worry about the 13 and 20 WPM tests any more.

Just try to be calm and realize that it's not the end of the world
if you fail. Get the certificates for the tests you do pass and
go back the next testing session. Some testing stations will even
let you try again, after a short rest to collect your thoughts.

And don't discount using CW, when you finally get your license. It's
a fun mode to use, just like any other mode. The more you use it,
the better you get at it, and the more fun you have. And that's what
it's all about, having fun.

--
Martin E. Meserve - K7MEM
http://www.k7mem.com
(remove _nospam_ from my email to reply)


That may not work anymore. Used to be, the 10 questions were usually
"multiple choice". If you had enough letters or characters to take a
good stab at the answer, yes, you could conceivably pass. BUT.... I was
told that the VE systems, at least W5YI (who I go through) - changed
their system to require "fill in the blanks" - no more multiple choice.
That means if there was an error sent on purpose of say "antena" and you
were to assume - having not copied the whole word in code, that it was
"antenna" - and you wrote "antenna" on the blank - you failed that
question. You're supposed to copy the message AS IT IS SENT. NO ERRORS.
If they send all words correctly, you best have all words you need to
write down - spelled correctly. IF they have a misspelled word, you
better have it too. If the word starts with a C and you assumed wrong
and wrote another character down, let's face it, you're not going to
answer a particular question correctly, if that word has to do with it.
Then too, with our wacky English language, you could have To, Two,
Too...... just as an example. While the words to and too may not be on
the test as an answer, the word Two - could be as in Two Feet, Two
Meters, or any other applicable combination. It all depends. If they use
standard run of mill tests, he may never see that. IF "THEY" make up
their own exams, as they are allowed to do, Lord only knows what may be
in there. A misspelling of the word or an assumption could be costly. He
could catch the first and last letter and "assume" the middle, not
knowing for sure what it was. He could miss the word previous or after
and not see that it should have been TWO in relation to something of
height or so on. All presumptions of course, but possibilities.

He could still take a stab at the exam. With 1/2 the code, he stands a
small chance of passing, but preparation IS the best answer. I've seen
people fail for making the stupidest of errors even with knowledge.
Being unprepared and nervous sure won't help. Whatever the case.......
Good luck!

One more notch. Our team had a guy sit in for 20 WPM. He "claimed" he
could copy it, but he had some sort of medical disorder as well - which
he brought no medical proof of for us to give him special testing -
which we would have been allowed to do. He took the exam. When done,
neither he nor us could make out his copy - to start with. He also
failed the written for the same reason. He couldn't read his own
writing. Talking to the guy, he was pretty well versed in ham and so on.
Was he prepared? I don't know. But even if he was, his dictation shot
him down. It's all in the copy on paper. We can't read what you caught
in your head.

cl


Like I said at the start "There is no substitute for being prepared".

They may have changed the tests since I took mine, but the VE stations
have
a lot of leway in creating their tests. The only way to know for sure is
to
ask. Each time I went it only cost $6.45 and I could take as many test as
I wanted, each time. So I did. I took the Tech, General, and 13 WPM in
one
sitting and the Advanced, Extra, and the 20 WPM in another.

As far as stories, there are just as many testers crash and burn as there
are ones that pass. Maybe more. But as I already said, it's not the end
of the world. I used Morse Academy to create a group of tests on tape.
Then I would listen two or three times a day for 15 minutes. That's all
it took for me. There is not any need to check your work. When you copy
well, you know it. When I hit 85% - 90% I would generate new ones that
were faster. Of course, it did take me several months.

--
Martin E. Meserve - K7MEM
http://www.k7mem.com
(remove _nospam_ from my email to reply)


Yes, "we" (I am an examiner) do have a lot of leeway as you say... but
the tests must still conform to the FCC/VEC's standards. Again - the code
must be error free for the minute copied OR the "fill in the blank"
answers. What we use as text, is up to us, as long as it is in the
prescribed length, timing (5 wpm), and a mixture of alphabet, numerical
characters, Q signals, etc. IF they have a handicap documented
(preferably before hand), we can accommodate them with regard to that
handicap and break up the code test to letters, numbers, words at a time,
sentence at a time, etc. if need be. We can use lights, vibrations, code
keys and oscillators, etc. Though the applicant may have to provide any
special needs in equipment. The VEs are not liable for providing special
needs testing equipment or facilities.

Yes, there is nothing like preparation. It is quite amazing to see people
testing, those who have studied and those who haven't. Usually, you can
tell - just by looking around the room as they test. You can also pick
out by pre-test and post test talk - if they've studied, even if they
don't outright admit it.

cl

I'm just curious why they went back to exact copy, instead of leaving it
as multiple-choice, on the 10 question test. The CW test will probably go
away anyway, so I guess it really doesn't matter.

Thanks for the info.

--
Martin E. Meserve - K7MEM
http://www.k7mem.com
(remove _nospam_ from my email to reply)

"That" - you would have to ask the powers that be who control it..... I
just follow the procedures as set forth.

cl

K7ME

They may have changed the tests since I took mine, but the VE stations have
a lot of leway in creating their tests. The only way to know for sure is to
ask. Each time I went it only cost $6.45 and I could take as many test as
I wanted, each time. So I did. I took the Tech, General, and 13 WPM in one
sitting and the Advanced, Extra, and the 20 WPM in another.


Where does that $6.45 go? Is there accountability?

On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 17:50:12 -0500, jim wrote:

K7ME

They may have changed the tests since I took mine, but the VE stations have
a lot of leway in creating their tests. The only way to know for sure is to
ask. Each time I went it only cost $6.45 and I could take as many test as
I wanted, each time. So I did. I took the Tech, General, and 13 WPM in one
sitting and the Advanced, Extra, and the 20 WPM in another.


Where does that $6.45 go? Is there accountability?


$14.00 now.

Vinnie S.

"Vinnie S." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 17:50:12 -0500, jim wrote:

K7ME

They may have changed the tests since I took mine, but the VE stations
have
a lot of leway in creating their tests. The only way to know for sure is
to
ask. Each time I went it only cost $6.45 and I could take as many test
as
I wanted, each time. So I did. I took the Tech, General, and 13 WPM in
one
sitting and the Advanced, Extra, and the 20 WPM in another.


Where does that $6.45 go? Is there accountability?


$14.00 now.

Vinnie S.

Yes, there is accountability. You must register each and every examinee. The
VEs get to keep a percentage, the rest goes to the VEC. The VECs and FCC
know exactly how much you've collected. Put it this way, no fees, no
license. Even if the person fails, a portion of the money he/she paid for
that test is turned in just as though they'd passed.

BEFORE anyone jumps to conclusions, the amount the VEs keep is NOT enough to
compensate a 3 man team for even an hour. That doesn't count copies if
needed, phone calls out of pocket to examinees - confirming testing dates,
or follow up in case of a question after the fact. It doesn't count many
things in. A popular magazine editor ****ed me off once by "assuming" VEs
get rich off this. THEY DON'T. Become one, you'll see. If you traveled say
10 miles to help your club give exams, at today's gas prices, there is no
way in hell that pittance left over could pay your gas and time. You have to
pay the postage to send in the exam package, need large envelopes, etc.
Supplies cost money unless you are lucky and get them for nothing. Our team
kept "any" money left over after all expenses - for future expenses. "IF" a
small kitty started accumulating, then coffee was bought to provide to the
examinees of future sessions, supplies were purchased for future dates.
Believe me, you will NOT get rich off of being a VE. The V stands for
"Volunteer", which is what you have to love to do, to put in the time that
is required. If you have busy sessions, it is a handful.

The FCC does not allow you to make a "profit", but they do consider costs
involved......

cl

jim wrote:
K7ME


They may have changed the tests since I took mine, but the VE stations
have
a lot of leway in creating their tests. The only way to know for sure
is to
ask. Each time I went it only cost $6.45 and I could take as many test as
I wanted, each time. So I did. I took the Tech, General, and 13 WPM in
one
sitting and the Advanced, Extra, and the 20 WPM in another.


Where does that $6.45 go? Is there accountability?

In most cases, there is probably some accountability. The main reason for
the charge is to recover the cost of the materials used in administering
the tests. Prices vary from testing station to testing station depending
on what they need to provide the service. The VEs donate their time to
administer the tests and file the necessary paperwork, but do not have
to provide the funding.

--
Martin E. Meserve - K7MEM
http://www.k7mem.com
(remove _nospam_ from my email to reply)

K7MEM wrote:
jim wrote:

K7ME


They may have changed the tests since I took mine, but the VE
stations have
a lot of leway in creating their tests. The only way to know for sure
is to
ask. Each time I went it only cost $6.45 and I could take as many
test as
I wanted, each time. So I did. I took the Tech, General, and 13 WPM
in one
sitting and the Advanced, Extra, and the 20 WPM in another.


Where does that $6.45 go? Is there accountability?


In most cases, there is probably some accountability. The main reason for
the charge is to recover the cost of the materials used in administering
the tests. Prices vary from testing station to testing station depending
on what they need to provide the service. The VEs donate their time to
administer the tests and file the necessary paperwork, but do not have
to provide the funding.

Hmmmm. Without having to Google for the answer I figured to ask an
amateur for answers to the fee accounting. Price variances and
accounting probabilities makes for an ideal situation for greed.