"Yeti" wrote in message
...
On 24/09/2010 17:22, Brian Reay wrote:

Amateur radio has many facets, DStar is simply one of them. Why can't
people
be left to enjoy their pet facets while others get on and enjoy theirs?

Because D-Star isn't amateur radio.

There is no experimentation involved, and can't be.


Don't confuse Brian with logic, he has his faith in that choice must be good
no matter who provides it or what their motives are.

Steve Terry
--
"I would like to plead for my right to investigate natural phenomena
without having guns pointed at me.
I also ask for the right to be wrong without being hanged for it."
- Wilhelm Reich, November 1947

Yeti wrote:
I don't have the skills, or even the time, to take part - but it doesn't
stop me from encouraging the project as a matter of principal. A closed
codec has no place in Amateur Radio.

It is striking how many of the proponents of development of an open codec
and opponents of a closed codec are amongst those that do not have any
idea how to develop a codec...

"Rob" wrote in message
...
Yeti wrote:
I don't have the skills, or even the time, to take part - but it doesn't
stop me from encouraging the project as a matter of principal. A closed
codec has no place in Amateur Radio.

It is striking how many of the proponents of development of an open codec
and opponents of a closed codec are amongst those that do not have any
idea how to develop a codec...


ROTFL

Or have even contributed to the development fund. (It was recently reported
by a contributor to uk.radio.amateur that he was the first person to have
sent a donation. (Stands by for the latest excuse from one of our Scottish
amateurs as to why he can't cough up YETI again this month.) )

Personally, I don't see the attraction of DStar like systems, regardless of
the choice of CODEC. However, I'm more than happy for others to enjoy them.
I just wish the bleating crew would go and make this open CODEC happen.

--

Brian Morrison wrote:
On 25 Sep 2010 07:06:03 GMT
Rob wrote:

Yeti wrote:
I don't have the skills, or even the time, to take part - but it doesn't
stop me from encouraging the project as a matter of principal. A closed
codec has no place in Amateur Radio.

It is striking how many of the proponents of development of an open codec
and opponents of a closed codec are amongst those that do not have any
idea how to develop a codec...

The skills required to do the job are few and far between. The
community of people who can do good DSP design and coding is small.

Not only that (I have done DSP coding for filters and modems myself),
but in this case there is the additional difficulty of finding the methods
and algorithms to code speech into very few bits. This requires lots of
knowledge and research, and what is already known is usually patented.
Often the research is done partly in a scientific research institute
or at a university, and partly in a commercial company allied to such
an institute. Lots of man-hours of highly qualified people go into this.

But the community of people who think that "WE should develop an
open codec" and "when we had more donations we could..." seems to be
thinking that this is project that a couple of amateurs could do better.

We should develop an open space rocket to propel our geostationary OSCAR
into space. Sure.

But we better admit that we cannot do that and set achievable goals.

Rob wrote:


We should develop an open space rocket to propel our geostationary OSCAR
into space. Sure.

But we better admit that we cannot do that and set achievable goals.

Straw man.


Spike

On 25/09/2010 08:06, Rob wrote:
wrote:
I don't have the skills, or even the time, to take part - but it doesn't
stop me from encouraging the project as a matter of principal. A closed
codec has no place in Amateur Radio.

It is striking how many of the proponents of development of an open codec
and opponents of a closed codec are amongst those that do not have any
idea how to develop a codec...

I don't know to build a nuclear power station either - doesn't stop me
being in favour of them over wind power.

On 25/09/2010 08:32, Brian Reay wrote:
wrote in message
...
wrote:
I don't have the skills, or even the time, to take part - but it doesn't
stop me from encouraging the project as a matter of principal. A closed
codec has no place in Amateur Radio.

It is striking how many of the proponents of development of an open codec
and opponents of a closed codec are amongst those that do not have any
idea how to develop a codec...


ROTFL

Or have even contributed to the development fund. (It was recently reported
by a contributor to uk.radio.amateur that he was the first person to have
sent a donation. (Stands by for the latest excuse from one of our Scottish
amateurs as to why he can't cough up YETI again this month.) )

Actually, I can this month. Someone remind me who I send it to please!

Can't afford it next month cos the RSGB want their fees off me then, and
I'll be on holiday for at least a week of it too - so I'd better get it
done now.

Personally, I don't see the attraction of DStar like systems, regardless of
the choice of CODEC. However, I'm more than happy for others to enjoy them.
I just wish the bleating crew would go and make this open CODEC happen.


Didn't you read the first post? It's happening!

On 25/09/2010 11:04, Rob wrote:

We should develop an open space rocket to propel our geostationary OSCAR
into space. Sure.

A Geostationary OSCAR - what a terrible idea!

On 25/09/2010 11:55, Brian Morrison wrote:
On 25 Sep 2010 10:04:41 GMT
wrote:

Brian wrote:
On 25 Sep 2010 07:06:03 GMT
wrote:

wrote:
I don't have the skills, or even the time, to take part - but it doesn't
stop me from encouraging the project as a matter of principal. A closed
codec has no place in Amateur Radio.

It is striking how many of the proponents of development of an open codec
and opponents of a closed codec are amongst those that do not have any
idea how to develop a codec...

The skills required to do the job are few and far between. The
community of people who can do good DSP design and coding is small.

Not only that (I have done DSP coding for filters and modems myself),
but in this case there is the additional difficulty of finding the methods
and algorithms to code speech into very few bits. This requires lots of
knowledge and research, and what is already known is usually patented.
Often the research is done partly in a scientific research institute
or at a university, and partly in a commercial company allied to such
an institute. Lots of man-hours of highly qualified people go into this.

Very true, we are fortunate that David Rowe already had the knowledge
and background to do this, and was available to do the work. Others can
assist, but I think they did not have the time required.


But the community of people who think that "WE should develop an
open codec" and "when we had more donations we could..." seems to be
thinking that this is project that a couple of amateurs could do better.

I've never thought that, I knew that the only solution was an amateur
who was also knowledgeable and experienced in the techniques needed.


We should develop an open space rocket to propel our geostationary OSCAR
into space. Sure.

Don't think rockets are patented, just seriously expensive.


But we better admit that we cannot do that and set achievable goals.

I think Codec2 is achievable, but I certainly agree that a
geostationary OSCAR is asking a great deal, getting it there is one
thing, keeping it there and monitoring it and keeping it healthy is
quite another.


More importantly, keeping it useable, and free from abuse will be
impossible. (Ref: US SATCOM on 255.550 downlink, widely pirated by half
of Brazil)

"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...
"Rob" wrote in message
...
snip
If the open CODEC happens, their scope to "experiment" with it will be
limited- unless they only want to talk to themselves or with others
they've co-ordinated experiments with.
73
Brian G8OSN/W8OSN


Except for the scope to experiment, you have just described D-Star.

Steve Terry
--
"I would like to plead for my right to investigate natural phenomena
without having guns pointed at me.
I also ask for the right to be wrong without being hanged for it."
- Wilhelm Reich, November 1947