I think that what you might need to do is change the chip or have your TNC updated, because the mode of Packet that is being used around here is different then what it was 10 - 20 years ago and the older TNC is not compatable with the newer version.

APRS is a form of Packet and there is APRS digipeaters all over the place..

http://www.aprs.org/

In article ,
(Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
Is packet radio dead? Has the proliferation of Internet and Cell Phones
made it so meaningless that no one is doing anything anymore?

The lack of activity in this group may more reflect the death of
Usenet than anything else. Very few Usenet sites exist outside
of Universities and commercial providers these days.

There are still people experimenting with the Internet protocols
(TCP/IP, etc) over ham radio. Little of it takes place at 1200 bps
anymore; most folk are running 9600 bps or faster, some are using
converted wireless equipment to achive multiple megabits ("HSMM"). And
there is the new 56kb/s digital radio from the folks in the northwest.
There are a lot of folks running Linux and many of these use the
soundcard in their computer as the modem - no TNC required.

For more info, check out the Linux-Hams mailing list, the TAPR
website http://www.tapr.org and the AMPRNet http://www.ampr.org.

Best regards
- Brian WB6CYT

In article ,
Rob writes:
Bill Gunshannon wrote:
I think you mean PIxVRZ (PI1VRZ/PI8VRZ etc).
They have remained active very long but I think they are off the air.

Or you mean PA0VRC, a local amateur that has moved to another part
of the country but is still alive and kicking.
He built the local 2M repeater PI3PYR in 1977 or 1978 with some friends.

Nope, PA0VRZ from Apeldoorn. Bulletin station for "vereniging van
radio-zend-amateurs". I used to copy the bulletins on RTTY and
even talk with them once in a while.

Ok the VRZA clubstation. It is now called PI4VRZ.

I wonder why the callsign change?

They are active
weekly on saturdays (after the holiday break) 0900 UTC.
The main operator Ron PB0ANL was also active in the packet group that
ran PI1VRZ/PI8VRZ.
I listen to their bulletins weekly on 2M. You can also listen on
Internet at www.pi4vrz.nl

I'll have to give that listen for old times sake.


UUCP is exactly what I was talking about. I was doing UUCP long before
the Internet opened up to the public. I once ran UUCP between a couple
TNC's to see how it would work and it wasn't bad. Basicly it already
had email and Netnews so I had a hard time seeing what was accomplished
by writing yet another BBS system (we had dozens of them on the phone
as well, but they were never as well connected as UUCP.)

The problem was that UUCP ran on Unix, and Unix was an expensive system
requiring a high-end machine that only some lucky people had.

I guess I was lucky, then. I had Unix (XENIX actually) on a M68K at
home from about 1984. Added more as time went on. We won'r even go
into what I have at home now but it ain't all PC's. :-)

The average HAM had at most a 286 PC, and that was already in the
later years (1990), before that it was an 8088 system.
In those days I had an Atari ST (68000 system) and many packet users
had a Commodore 64.
In december 1992 I assembled a 386 system with 16MB memory, 800MB disk,
1024x768 graphics card and 17" monitor, paying about $3500 for it.
I installed Linux on it. Then I could run UUCP from home!

And, of course, there were versions of UUCP for a lot of non-unix
computers in those days, too. MIght have even been one for CP/M.


When I saw your call I had to run and take a quick look at my logbook.
But it was PE1CHS that I worked. But, you never know!!!

He lived very close to here but I think he is no longer active.

PE1 calls are "technicians license" (no morse code) and originally
that meant "VHF-UHF only". PE1CHS was a DX-er, maybe you worked him
while in Europe.

I did. On 2 meters during one of the many VHF contests.

However, after 2002 or so (don't remember exactly) the morse code
requirement was dropped and all PE1 calls are now allowed to use
HF as well.
I have never been active on HF, but I have used amateur satellites
before I moved in 1995 and had to take down the yagi antennas.
Both SSB and packet satellites.

I used to do satellites, too. Might get back into that as well, but
it takes a lot more gear and a lot more money today. I worked mostly
the HF satellites inb those days especially the russian ones.

Great nostalgia. Talking with you brings back a lot of memories.

All the best.

bill
KB3YV

--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
| and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include std.disclaimer.h

In article ,
Fred McKenzie writes:
In article ,
(Bill Gunshannon) wrote:

This group seems as dead as the 2 Meter Packet Frequencies around here
but I'll ask here anyway.

Is packet radio dead? Has the proliferation of Internet and Cell Phones
made it so meaningless that no one is doing anything anymore?

I have been pretty much out of Ham Radio for a long time but now
that retirement has reared it's ugly(?) head I find myself with
time and a renewed interest.

I am monitoring all the 2 Meter Packet Freqs here (in the home of
K3RLI) and hearing nothing. Not even the dubious DX Cluster traffic
that used to go on around here!!

Is there any interest in old fashined packet radio any more or should
I just put it all back in a box and relegate it to the cellar once more?

Oh yeah, Is Howie Goldstein, N2WX around here by any chance? I would
still like to get a copy of the source for the "Howie Code" that ran
in my DR-200's back in my digi-peating days. And a copy for the TNC-2
as well if there ever was one. I have always wanted to experiment with
it and if packet is pretty much dead then there is probably no problem
with me doing some stuff on two meters around here. Especially if I
could find some kindred spirits who shared some of my interests.

Bill-

I am over seven years into retirement, and my memory is getting a bit
dim. I have an old PK-232 stashed somewhere. Many times I have thought
about firing it up, but haven't found time yet. I would need to build
some adapter cables first!

At one time I had 2 PacComm TNCs with "The Net" firmware, connected
back-to-back between the 144 and 220 MHz bands.

Let's see, I have a TNC-1, a couple of TNC-2's, a KAM, a newer version
KAM, a PACCOMM 220, a couple DR-200's and even one of those early
VE-something or others that didn't do AX.25 because it hadn't been
invented yet. :-)


I recently reprogrammed an old FM rig that had 441.000 MHz in it from
back in the 90s. My notes indicate that was a Packet Backbone
frequency. Sure enough, I can hear a steady chatter of packet signals
there. I'm listening through a magnet mount antenna stuck to the top of
some metal shelves, here in central Florida.

Like I said, I programmed all the 2 meter packet freqs into a scanner
and let it run all day yesterday and heard nothing. I guess if everything
has moved to vhf maybe the locals won't mind if I experiment on 2 meters
again. Hmmmmmm.... What ever happend to ROSE. There was another system
that showed promise but lost out to politics.


According to the FCC, N2WX renewed in May, and is living in Sarasota,
FL. You might take a look at http://www.tapr.org. If you search
their archives for N2WX, you will find several related articles. Their
software library is at http://www.tapr.org/software_library.php.

I have tried a couple of email addresses but never got an answer.
I really don't plan on calling his house. I have asked this question
before in NetNews and other places. I would have thought he would
have seen one of these requests or had someone mention that I was
looking for him. Maybe he just dfoesn't want anyone to work with
his old code any more.


I don't know if PacComm is still in business, but their website is on
line at http://www.paccomm.com. A note at the bottom of the home page
says "Last updated 7/19/2004".


Yeah, PACCOMM is still there. I have asked them three times now and
my reply each time was, "let me look and see if we still have a copy
of the code around anywhere." That is usually the last I hear. I
fear this is yet another piece of computing histoy that may have been
lost.

bill
KB3YV

--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
| and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include std.disclaimer.h

In article ,
Channel Jumper writes:

Bill Gunshannon;794977 Wrote:
This group seems as dead as the 2 Meter Packet Frequencies around here
but I'll ask here anyway.

Is packet radio dead? Has the proliferation of Internet and Cell Phones
made it so meaningless that no one is doing anything anymore?

I have been pretty much out of Ham Radio for a long time but now
that retirement has reared it's ugly(?) head I find myself with
time and a renewed interest.

I am monitoring all the 2 Meter Packet Freqs here (in the home of
K3RLI) and hearing nothing. Not even the dubious DX Cluster traffic
that used to go on around here!!

Is there any interest in old fashined packet radio any more or should
I just put it all back in a box and relegate it to the cellar once more?

Oh yeah, Is Howie Goldstein, N2WX around here by any chance? I would
still like to get a copy of the source for the "Howie Code" that ran
in my DR-200's back in my digi-peating days. And a copy for the TNC-2
as well if there ever was one. I have always wanted to experiment with
it and if packet is pretty much dead then there is probably no problem
with me doing some stuff on two meters around here. Especially if I
could find some kindred spirits who shared some of my interests.

bill
KB3YV

--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three
wolves
| and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include std.disclaimer.h

I think Bill - what your problem is - is that you have walked away from
something and all of a sudden, you turn the radio on and you expect to
hear traffic, just like you did 10 - 20 years ago...

Well, yes.... If there is no traffic wouldn't that mean it is dead?


Up in the north, they pass traffic on two meters, at least as far as
Bingimton NY to Erie via Ridgeway PA, and they pass it as far south as
Pittsburgh PA - via the national traffic system.

OK, on what frequencies? I'm in Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. When K3RLI was
still active this place was a hot-bed of NTS traffic.


The only person I know personally that is involved in Pete Carr - WW3O
You might have read one or more of his articles in QST Magazine.

I haven't seen a QST in 20 years.

I think Pete says they do it in the morning.
Not enough traffic anymore to sit there and do it all day.

Oh, wait. You are talking about voice or CW. I would have thought that
automated packet systems would have replaced that decades ago. But then
maybe that's what "Not enough traffic anymore to sit there and do it all
day." really means. :-)

I don't even know what kind of traffic they pass.
I think they only do it to keep the system up and running in case of a
emergency.

If you want people to participate with - I would tone down the
attitude...

Attitude? All I have said so far was 25 years ago politics kept any
attempts at improving the system out and that ham radio suffered from
NIH syndrome. Historical facts, not attitude.

There is still some good guys out there, but most of the old HAMS - pre
No Code - are DEAD, and the ones that still has the radios on are not
the same hams you remember from 20 - 30 years ago.

2 meters / 70 CM is unique band.
It is the first place you go when you get your license and the last
place you go before they take you to the rest home or the cemetary.
Most real hams won't even use any band that is channeltized...
You are going to find that the kids on the radio today are mostly the
walkie talkie crowd, who are not real hams, just want to be's. Who
refuses to put up antenna's or buy transceivers or stand up to their old
lady to be able to put something in or on or outside of the house.

And you accused me of having an attitude!!!


Sounds like you have been delegated into that crowd.

What are you talking about? I use mostly tube type HF equipment that
I build myself or at laest maintain myself. (When my father died he
left a bunch of "newer" semiconductor and microprocessor based rigs
behind. None of them still work.) i build antennas for the fun of it.
Especially HF antennas. (Ever built a Sterba Curtain?) I alwys have
ropes and wires hanging from trees around my property. I may have been
out a long time, but I'm not dead.


Your Advanced license tells volumes.

What is that supposed to mean? That was the level I had attained
when I stopped using ham radio. Since getting interested I have
started working on my Extra. Took the test once just to see what
it was like and only missed it by 2 questions (on all the space
stuff that didn't even exist when I was still active.) I expect
to pass it before the summer is over.

You knew about communications but didn't see any need to go beyond
Advanced and probably got mad when they eliminated Advanced and got rid
of the code...

Talk about being blinded by attitude. I was one of the advocates of
eliminating the code over 20 years ago. Just because I do it doesn't
mean I expect everyone to do it. I actually did 20WPM code for 10
years before I even had a ham licence. With the Army. That was also
where I got my interest in RTTY, again long before becoming a ham.

That is the consensus of the population here....

Find yourself a Amateur Radio Club and get involved in Amateur Radio -
not just the walkie talkie crowd on the 565 simplex or the repeater
retards...
Get out the books and study and get your Amateur Extra license and
become a VE and give back to Amateur Radio - don't just take!

You will find, if you get involved - you will not feel so jilted and
will be less apt to retreat to the 75 and 160 meters, with the other
buddy clubs, where all they do is sit and cuss and not use their call
signs and act like they are still on the CB radio...

I guess you totally missed the fact that what I wanted to do was get
back into digital experimentation. Or the fact that I was doing
wireless networking (both ham and non-ham) 30 years ago.

bill
KB3YV

--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
| and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include std.disclaimer.h

In article ,
(Brian Kantor) writes:
In article ,
(Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
Is packet radio dead? Has the proliferation of Internet and Cell Phones
made it so meaningless that no one is doing anything anymore?


Hi Brian,
Now there's a blast from the past.

The lack of activity in this group may more reflect the death of
Usenet than anything else. Very few Usenet sites exist outside
of Universities and commercial providers these days.

Gee.... That's where I thought it always was. (As one who used to
run a pretty good Usenet Site at a University until they turned me
off for "using too much bandwidth". :-)


There are still people experimenting with the Internet protocols
(TCP/IP, etc) over ham radio. Little of it takes place at 1200 bps
anymore; most folk are running 9600 bps or faster,

Certainly haven't found any around here.

some are using
converted wireless equipment to achive multiple megabits ("HSMM"). And

That was something I wanted to do. Wondered if one could change the
code in the box (I have a bunch of boxes with third party code based
on Linux available) to make them run AX.25. Seemed like one could
set up some pretty good high-speed point-to-point links with the WAP
boxes.

there is the new 56kb/s digital radio from the folks in the northwest.

New as in different from the GRAPES stuff that was coming out about the
time I stopped having the time and money to play with it?

There are a lot of folks running Linux and many of these use the
soundcard in their computer as the modem - no TNC required.

I've seen that, too. But end user devices was never my main interest
I was always much more interested in the backbone.


For more info, check out the Linux-Hams mailing list, the TAPR
website http://www.tapr.org and the AMPRNet http://www.ampr.org.

Not much on mailing lists. Been to the TAPR site but it basicly read
like 1990 all over again. But then, I didn't really get past the intro.
I'll check out th AMPR site.


Best regards
- Brian WB6CYT

Great talking to you again after all this time, Brian. Is Phil, KA9Q
still active out that way or is he too deep into the commercial stuff
anymore?

bill

--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
| and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include std.disclaimer.h

Bill Gunshannon wrote:
Is Phil, KA9Q
still active out that way or is he too deep into the commercial stuff
anymore?

He's pretty much retired these days; I believe he's mostly into science
education (speaking at high schools and junior colleges) these days.

Last time we had dinner a few months ago he was real excited by near-space
balloon flights and using ham radio to relay video and telemetry. One of
his high-school groups had just had a rather successful flight and collected
some interesting data and video.

The HSMM folk have found that some brands of WAP can be told to operate
in the ham bands (2.4 and 5.8 GHz) at increased power and are using them
for high speed data links, both digital voice and data. And of course
there are the D-Star folk with their medium-speed digital links. There
is interest in Internet linking in both groups. A Google search on "HSMM"
will probably yield some informative info.

I regret to say that the www.ampr.org site is rather sparse right now,
as we just rebuilt it, but I hope to add more to it as the months go on.

Best wishes!
- Brian

In article ,
(Brian Kantor) writes:
Bill Gunshannon wrote:
Is Phil, KA9Q
still active out that way or is he too deep into the commercial stuff
anymore?

He's pretty much retired these days; I believe he's mostly into science
education (speaking at high schools and junior colleges) these days.

Last time we had dinner a few months ago he was real excited by near-space
balloon flights and using ham radio to relay video and telemetry. One of
his high-school groups had just had a rather successful flight and collected
some interesting data and video.

The HSMM folk have found that some brands of WAP can be told to operate
in the ham bands (2.4 and 5.8 GHz) at increased power and are using them
for high speed data links, both digital voice and data. And of course
there are the D-Star folk with their medium-speed digital links. There
is interest in Internet linking in both groups. A Google search on "HSMM"
will probably yield some informative info.

I regret to say that the www.ampr.org site is rather sparse right now,
as we just rebuilt it, but I hope to add more to it as the months go on.

Best wishes!
- Brian

Thanks for the info. I will definitely look into some of this, especially
the WAP stuff as I have a bunch and really like playing with them.

If you see Phil again tell him I said "Hi" although I doubt he will even
remember who I am. (Not sayinghis memory is bad, just that I tend to be
that guy no one remembers. :-)

All the best to everyone on the left coast. It's been 25 years since
I was last that far west.

bill

--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
| and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include std.disclaimer.h

Bill Gunshannon wrote:
In article ,
Rob writes:
Bill Gunshannon wrote:
I think you mean PIxVRZ (PI1VRZ/PI8VRZ etc).
They have remained active very long but I think they are off the air.

Or you mean PA0VRC, a local amateur that has moved to another part
of the country but is still alive and kicking.
He built the local 2M repeater PI3PYR in 1977 or 1978 with some friends.

Nope, PA0VRZ from Apeldoorn. Bulletin station for "vereniging van
radio-zend-amateurs". I used to copy the bulletins on RTTY and
even talk with them once in a while.

Ok the VRZA clubstation. It is now called PI4VRZ.

I wonder why the callsign change?

At some point it was decided that all club stations would have a
PI4 prefix, and the existing PA0 calls were changed to PI4.

PI prefixes with other digits are/were used for repeaters, nodes, bbses
and other special applications.

Later a vanity callsign system was introduced and now all prefixes
from PA to PH are used by radio amateurs, and PI for special stations.

I used to do satellites, too. Might get back into that as well, but
it takes a lot more gear and a lot more money today. I worked mostly
the HF satellites inb those days especially the russian ones.

Not having a HF license, I set up a azimuth/elevation controlled set
of crossed yagis and later added computer control. Convenient for
the low orbiting packet satellites (that no longer exist). My
station could completely automatically find the next satellite that
would pass (out of 6 or so that were active), turn the yagis, set
the frequencies of the transceivers, watch for the corresponding
callsign to appear on packet, and upload/download the files that
were queued. It was like satellite UUCP :-)
Neat to build it and to watch when it was all running... but boring
after a while.

Great nostalgia. Talking with you brings back a lot of memories.

All the best.

bill
KB3YV

Yes, great! It was a nice time and good memories remain.

73/55,
Rob

Bill, good to have you back involved with Ham Radio. You'll find that things have changed, but there is a lot of exciting new things to have fun with.

Unlike some others, I don't sense any attitude other than "where are we now"? And that's a reasonable question. In PA and South NJ, APRS is the what's hot now. There is some DSTAR activity, but in general, Packet Radio in any given area is very sporadic and usually club-oriented.

Unlike the early 90's when we were all playing with Phil Karn's KA9Q, full-time connectivity to the Internet is the basis for support communications. DX cluster are mostly web-based, although you can connect to quite a few vie Telnet. The biggest reason for the Internet is to write logging data to sites like HRDlog.net or to map digital propogation via pskreporter or wsprnet.

So Ham Radio is a bit different with HF digital being the thing most highly developed now with modes like JT65-HF, PSK31 and Olivia. Even RTTY has experienced a resurgence in interest. Amsat is suffering with most of it's mainstay birds being off the air. QRP CW on the WARC bands like 30 and 17 is a hot area, one that I enjoy quite a bit. SSB is the usual collection of what-have-you. Sometimes great, sometimes decidedly not.

But the main point being, there is a lot of digital activity being enjoyed on HF these days. It seems to be in sync with the connected, digital media world that we live in, so no real surprise. As for age? Yes the older Hams who got their starts in the late 50s are into retirement now and have moved into homes that may not support large antennas, so QRP and digital or CW are their realm. Is there a reason to connect with a TNC on VHF anymore? Not really.

Anyway, welcome back into the hobby. It may not be the same as you remember, but if you bought a Yaesu 817ND, ran it into a random wire via an LDG automatic tuner, and connected it to your PC via a West Mountain Rigblaster, you can have as much fun as I do on PSK31, JT65-HF or CW as I do.

73