This group seems as dead as the 2 Meter Packet Frequencies around here
but I'll ask here anyway.

Is packet radio dead? Has the proliferation of Internet and Cell Phones
made it so meaningless that no one is doing anything anymore?

I have been pretty much out of Ham Radio for a long time but now
that retirement has reared it's ugly(?) head I find myself with
time and a renewed interest.

I am monitoring all the 2 Meter Packet Freqs here (in the home of
K3RLI) and hearing nothing. Not even the dubious DX Cluster traffic
that used to go on around here!!

Is there any interest in old fashined packet radio any more or should
I just put it all back in a box and relegate it to the cellar once more?

Oh yeah, Is Howie Goldstein, N2WX around here by any chance? I would
still like to get a copy of the source for the "Howie Code" that ran
in my DR-200's back in my digi-peating days. And a copy for the TNC-2
as well if there ever was one. I have always wanted to experiment with
it and if packet is pretty much dead then there is probably no problem
with me doing some stuff on two meters around here. Especially if I
could find some kindred spirits who shared some of my interests.

bill
KB3YV

--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
| and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include std.disclaimer.h

Bill Gunshannon wrote:
This group seems as dead as the 2 Meter Packet Frequencies around here
but I'll ask here anyway.

Is packet radio dead? Has the proliferation of Internet and Cell Phones
made it so meaningless that no one is doing anything anymore?

Over here, classic packet radio and TCP/IP over packet radio are
completely dead. The only thing left is APRS on a single channel
on 2m and 70cm. There still are digipeaters optimized for APRS
and often with a connection to Internet, but all the NET/ROM nodes,
BBS systems, DX-clusters etc seem to be turned off.

Oh yeah, Is Howie Goldstein, N2WX around here by any chance? I would
still like to get a copy of the source for the "Howie Code" that ran
in my DR-200's back in my digi-peating days. And a copy for the TNC-2
as well if there ever was one. I have always wanted to experiment with
it and if packet is pretty much dead then there is probably no problem
with me doing some stuff on two meters around here. Especially if I
could find some kindred spirits who shared some of my interests.

Is that the KISS code or the original TNC2 firmware?

I should have the source for the KISS code somewhere, but I am not sure
if I can still get at it. (it may be on backupmedia for which I no
longer have a drive connected)

In article ,
Rob writes:
Bill Gunshannon wrote:
This group seems as dead as the 2 Meter Packet Frequencies around here
but I'll ask here anyway.

Is packet radio dead? Has the proliferation of Internet and Cell Phones
made it so meaningless that no one is doing anything anymore?

Over here, classic packet radio and TCP/IP over packet radio are
completely dead. The only thing left is APRS on a single channel
on 2m and 70cm. There still are digipeaters optimized for APRS
and often with a connection to Internet, but all the NET/ROM nodes,
BBS systems, DX-clusters etc seem to be turned off.

By "over here" I assume you Europe, yes?


Oh yeah, Is Howie Goldstein, N2WX around here by any chance? I would
still like to get a copy of the source for the "Howie Code" that ran
in my DR-200's back in my digi-peating days. And a copy for the TNC-2
as well if there ever was one. I have always wanted to experiment with
it and if packet is pretty much dead then there is probably no problem
with me doing some stuff on two meters around here. Especially if I
could find some kindred spirits who shared some of my interests.

Is that the KISS code or the original TNC2 firmware?

Actually, neither, althought I wouldn't mind having the original TNC2
source as well as what I want to play with will require changes to
that code as well.

The "Howie Code" was a different kind of connection code much like
NETROM but it actually preserved the originators callsign from end
to end. It is what ran in the DR100 and DR200 digipeaters from PACCOMM.
I ran a couple of them doing dual band gatewaying and providing rather
extensive coverage from a mountaintop in New York (north of NYC) for
several years in the early 80's. I always thought that it was never
given a real chance to show its capabilities or develop.


I should have the source for the KISS code somewhere, but I am not sure
if I can still get at it. (it may be on backupmedia for which I no
longer have a drive connected)

I imagine everyone has a copy of the KISS source. :-)

My desire is to use software that already existed at the time the packet
BBS's were coming into being. These other methods were never given any
consideration either although I had some luck with my early experimentation.
BUt ham radio has always suffered from a bad case of NIH syndrome which
frequently results in a lot of effort being directed away from what might
have been a very good solution to a problem. Of course, at this point it
is all academic and little more than "proof of concept" experimentation.
I see little liklihood that anything would revive packet radio even if
it still has practical uses.

bill
KB3YV

--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
| and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include std.disclaimer.h

Bill Gunshannon wrote:
In article ,
Rob writes:
Bill Gunshannon wrote:
This group seems as dead as the 2 Meter Packet Frequencies around here
but I'll ask here anyway.

Is packet radio dead? Has the proliferation of Internet and Cell Phones
made it so meaningless that no one is doing anything anymore?

Over here, classic packet radio and TCP/IP over packet radio are
completely dead. The only thing left is APRS on a single channel
on 2m and 70cm. There still are digipeaters optimized for APRS
and often with a connection to Internet, but all the NET/ROM nodes,
BBS systems, DX-clusters etc seem to be turned off.

By "over here" I assume you Europe, yes?

Yes, in particular the Netherlands.
In Germany I think there is something left.

Is that the KISS code or the original TNC2 firmware?

Actually, neither, althought I wouldn't mind having the original TNC2
source as well as what I want to play with will require changes to
that code as well.

The "Howie Code" was a different kind of connection code much like
NETROM but it actually preserved the originators callsign from end
to end. It is what ran in the DR100 and DR200 digipeaters from PACCOMM.
I ran a couple of them doing dual band gatewaying and providing rather
extensive coverage from a mountaintop in New York (north of NYC) for
several years in the early 80's. I always thought that it was never
given a real chance to show its capabilities or develop.

Ok, I played with some TNC clones but as my main interest was with
TCP/IP which had to use KISS mode, and KISS mode performed very poorly
on busy channels (which we had in those days), we quickly formed a
group and designed an SCC card with external modems, plus modem that
worked with it. This meant the PC had full control over the radio
and the TNC was no longer required. So I have little expertise on
TNC firmware.

My desire is to use software that already existed at the time the packet
BBS's were coming into being. These other methods were never given any
consideration either although I had some luck with my early experimentation.

In those days I wrote software that emulated a TNC on a virtual COM
port, so it was possible to run an early BBS (W0RLI, AA4RE) on our SCC
cards. Later I wrote an emulator for the G8BPQ hostmode, allowing newer
BBSes like F6FBB to run in multiuser mode. All the software ran on
a single PC with DOS, Desqview (multitasker), QEMM (memory management)
and performed as a NET/ROM node, IP router, BBS and DX cluster.

In article ,
Rob writes:
Bill Gunshannon wrote:
In article ,
Rob writes:
Bill Gunshannon wrote:
This group seems as dead as the 2 Meter Packet Frequencies around here
but I'll ask here anyway.

Is packet radio dead? Has the proliferation of Internet and Cell Phones
made it so meaningless that no one is doing anything anymore?

Over here, classic packet radio and TCP/IP over packet radio are
completely dead. The only thing left is APRS on a single channel
on 2m and 70cm. There still are digipeaters optimized for APRS
and often with a connection to Internet, but all the NET/ROM nodes,
BBS systems, DX-clusters etc seem to be turned off.

By "over here" I assume you Europe, yes?

Yes, in particular the Netherlands.
In Germany I think there is something left.

Is PA0VRZ still around? :-)


Is that the KISS code or the original TNC2 firmware?

Actually, neither, althought I wouldn't mind having the original TNC2
source as well as what I want to play with will require changes to
that code as well.

The "Howie Code" was a different kind of connection code much like
NETROM but it actually preserved the originators callsign from end
to end. It is what ran in the DR100 and DR200 digipeaters from PACCOMM.
I ran a couple of them doing dual band gatewaying and providing rather
extensive coverage from a mountaintop in New York (north of NYC) for
several years in the early 80's. I always thought that it was never
given a real chance to show its capabilities or develop.

Ok, I played with some TNC clones but as my main interest was with
TCP/IP which had to use KISS mode, and KISS mode performed very poorly
on busy channels (which we had in those days), we quickly formed a
group and designed an SCC card with external modems, plus modem that
worked with it. This meant the PC had full control over the radio
and the TNC was no longer required. So I have little expertise on
TNC firmware.

I did digipeating and played with IP quite a bit but it saw much
resistance around here and I wasn't interested in playing politics.
When I first moved back to Northeastern Pennsylvania my job was to
put the first University (actually, the first anything) on the
Internet. Gave me a lot of leeway. I had a connection between my
house and the University that provided Internet access in the late
80's before was even one ISP. I used to love going to ham club
meetingsd and listening to all the people discussing why it was
technically impossible when I was already doing it. :-)


My desire is to use software that already existed at the time the packet
BBS's were coming into being. These other methods were never given any
consideration either although I had some luck with my early experimentation.

In those days I wrote software that emulated a TNC on a virtual COM
port, so it was possible to run an early BBS (W0RLI, AA4RE) on our SCC
cards. Later I wrote an emulator for the G8BPQ hostmode, allowing newer
BBSes like F6FBB to run in multiuser mode. All the software ran on
a single PC with DOS, Desqview (multitasker), QEMM (memory management)
and performed as a NET/ROM node, IP router, BBS and DX cluster.

Yeah, there really were good old days. I always enjoyed ham radio
more over there than here. And other than wanting to experiment
with packet again I think I will be brushing up on my CW and will
probably not even hook a microphone up to any of my rigs.

bill
KB3YV formerly DA1WO (1978-1979 just east of Venlo)

--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
| and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include std.disclaimer.h

Bill Gunshannon wrote:
Yes, in particular the Netherlands.
In Germany I think there is something left.

Is PA0VRZ still around? :-)

I think you mean PIxVRZ (PI1VRZ/PI8VRZ etc).
They have remained active very long but I think they are off the air.

Or you mean PA0VRC, a local amateur that has moved to another part
of the country but is still alive and kicking.
He built the local 2M repeater PI3PYR in 1977 or 1978 with some friends.

I did digipeating and played with IP quite a bit but it saw much
resistance around here and I wasn't interested in playing politics.

We had so many channels allocated to packet that it was possible to
separate the traffic. A channel for local chat, one for the BBS,
one or two for the access of the local node, and then separate channels
for the interlinking of all the nodes.
This was part of the reasons why TNC's were no way to go and we needed
those SCC cards. Larger systems typically had between 8 and 12 channels.

When I first moved back to Northeastern Pennsylvania my job was to
put the first University (actually, the first anything) on the
Internet. Gave me a lot of leeway. I had a connection between my
house and the University that provided Internet access in the late
80's before was even one ISP. I used to love going to ham club
meetingsd and listening to all the people discussing why it was
technically impossible when I was already doing it. :-)

I had UUCP at work, and later when Linux became available also at home.
Internet came later (1994 or so) and was time-tariff so it was not so
attractive for radio related applications. Not to mention that it was
strictly forbidden to make a connection between amateur radio and the
telephone network.

bill
KB3YV formerly DA1WO (1978-1979 just east of Venlo)

Ah, probably stationed in Germany. We had a local airbase (Soesterberg)
here but it is now closed. I worked next to it for a couple of years
and remember the overflying F15s.

Rob PE1CHL

In article ,
Rob writes:
Bill Gunshannon wrote:
Yes, in particular the Netherlands.
In Germany I think there is something left.

Is PA0VRZ still around? :-)

I think you mean PIxVRZ (PI1VRZ/PI8VRZ etc).
They have remained active very long but I think they are off the air.

Or you mean PA0VRC, a local amateur that has moved to another part
of the country but is still alive and kicking.
He built the local 2M repeater PI3PYR in 1977 or 1978 with some friends.

Nope, PA0VRZ from Apeldoorn. Bulletin station for "vereniging van
radio-zend-amateurs". I used to copy the bulletins on RTTY and
even talk with them once in a while.


I did digipeating and played with IP quite a bit but it saw much
resistance around here and I wasn't interested in playing politics.

We had so many channels allocated to packet that it was possible to
separate the traffic. A channel for local chat, one for the BBS,
one or two for the access of the local node, and then separate channels
for the interlinking of all the nodes.
This was part of the reasons why TNC's were no way to go and we needed
those SCC cards. Larger systems typically had between 8 and 12 channels.

Yeah, we had plenty of channels, too. But that never got in the way
of politics. I started running IP on an unused frequency and still
got complaints about it not belonging on ham radio. (And I probably
shouldn't even go into the local Army MARS fiasco. :-)


When I first moved back to Northeastern Pennsylvania my job was to
put the first University (actually, the first anything) on the
Internet. Gave me a lot of leeway. I had a connection between my
house and the University that provided Internet access in the late
80's before was even one ISP. I used to love going to ham club
meetingsd and listening to all the people discussing why it was
technically impossible when I was already doing it. :-)

I had UUCP at work, and later when Linux became available also at home.
Internet came later (1994 or so) and was time-tariff so it was not so
attractive for radio related applications. Not to mention that it was
strictly forbidden to make a connection between amateur radio and the
telephone network.

UUCP is exactly what I was talking about. I was doing UUCP long before
the Internet opened up to the public. I once ran UUCP between a couple
TNC's to see how it would work and it wasn't bad. Basicly it already
had email and Netnews so I had a hard time seeing what was accomplished
by writing yet another BBS system (we had dozens of them on the phone
as well, but they were never as well connected as UUCP.)


bill
KB3YV formerly DA1WO (1978-1979 just east of Venlo)

Ah, probably stationed in Germany. We had a local airbase (Soesterberg)

Moenchen-Gladbach (actually, Rheindahlen) but went into Holland a lot.

here but it is now closed. I worked next to it for a couple of years
and remember the overflying F15s.

Rob PE1CHL

When I saw your call I had to run and take a quick look at my logbook.
But it was PE1CHS that I worked. But, you never know!!!

bill
KB3YV

--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
| and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include std.disclaimer.h

Bill Gunshannon wrote:
I think you mean PIxVRZ (PI1VRZ/PI8VRZ etc).
They have remained active very long but I think they are off the air.

Or you mean PA0VRC, a local amateur that has moved to another part
of the country but is still alive and kicking.
He built the local 2M repeater PI3PYR in 1977 or 1978 with some friends.

Nope, PA0VRZ from Apeldoorn. Bulletin station for "vereniging van
radio-zend-amateurs". I used to copy the bulletins on RTTY and
even talk with them once in a while.

Ok the VRZA clubstation. It is now called PI4VRZ. They are active
weekly on saturdays (after the holiday break) 0900 UTC.
The main operator Ron PB0ANL was also active in the packet group that
ran PI1VRZ/PI8VRZ.
I listen to their bulletins weekly on 2M. You can also listen on
Internet at www.pi4vrz.nl

UUCP is exactly what I was talking about. I was doing UUCP long before
the Internet opened up to the public. I once ran UUCP between a couple
TNC's to see how it would work and it wasn't bad. Basicly it already
had email and Netnews so I had a hard time seeing what was accomplished
by writing yet another BBS system (we had dozens of them on the phone
as well, but they were never as well connected as UUCP.)

The problem was that UUCP ran on Unix, and Unix was an expensive system
requiring a high-end machine that only some lucky people had.
The average HAM had at most a 286 PC, and that was already in the
later years (1990), before that it was an 8088 system.
In those days I had an Atari ST (68000 system) and many packet users
had a Commodore 64.
In december 1992 I assembled a 386 system with 16MB memory, 800MB disk,
1024x768 graphics card and 17" monitor, paying about $3500 for it.
I installed Linux on it. Then I could run UUCP from home!

When I saw your call I had to run and take a quick look at my logbook.
But it was PE1CHS that I worked. But, you never know!!!

He lived very close to here but I think he is no longer active.

PE1 calls are "technicians license" (no morse code) and originally
that meant "VHF-UHF only". PE1CHS was a DX-er, maybe you worked him
while in Europe.
However, after 2002 or so (don't remember exactly) the morse code
requirement was dropped and all PE1 calls are now allowed to use
HF as well.
I have never been active on HF, but I have used amateur satellites
before I moved in 1995 and had to take down the yagi antennas.
Both SSB and packet satellites.

In article ,
(Bill Gunshannon) wrote:

This group seems as dead as the 2 Meter Packet Frequencies around here
but I'll ask here anyway.

Is packet radio dead? Has the proliferation of Internet and Cell Phones
made it so meaningless that no one is doing anything anymore?

I have been pretty much out of Ham Radio for a long time but now
that retirement has reared it's ugly(?) head I find myself with
time and a renewed interest.

I am monitoring all the 2 Meter Packet Freqs here (in the home of
K3RLI) and hearing nothing. Not even the dubious DX Cluster traffic
that used to go on around here!!

Is there any interest in old fashined packet radio any more or should
I just put it all back in a box and relegate it to the cellar once more?

Oh yeah, Is Howie Goldstein, N2WX around here by any chance? I would
still like to get a copy of the source for the "Howie Code" that ran
in my DR-200's back in my digi-peating days. And a copy for the TNC-2
as well if there ever was one. I have always wanted to experiment with
it and if packet is pretty much dead then there is probably no problem
with me doing some stuff on two meters around here. Especially if I
could find some kindred spirits who shared some of my interests.

Bill-

I am over seven years into retirement, and my memory is getting a bit
dim. I have an old PK-232 stashed somewhere. Many times I have thought
about firing it up, but haven't found time yet. I would need to build
some adapter cables first!

At one time I had 2 PacComm TNCs with "The Net" firmware, connected
back-to-back between the 144 and 220 MHz bands.

I recently reprogrammed an old FM rig that had 441.000 MHz in it from
back in the 90s. My notes indicate that was a Packet Backbone
frequency. Sure enough, I can hear a steady chatter of packet signals
there. I'm listening through a magnet mount antenna stuck to the top of
some metal shelves, here in central Florida.

According to the FCC, N2WX renewed in May, and is living in Sarasota,
FL. You might take a look at http://www.tapr.org. If you search
their archives for N2WX, you will find several related articles. Their
software library is at http://www.tapr.org/software_library.php.

I don't know if PacComm is still in business, but their website is on
line at http://www.paccomm.com. A note at the bottom of the home page
says "Last updated 7/19/2004".

Fred
K4DII

I think Bill - what your problem is - is that you have walked away from something and all of a sudden, you turn the radio on and you expect to hear traffic, just like you did 10 - 20 years ago...

Up in the north, they pass traffic on two meters, at least as far as Bingimton NY to Erie via Ridgeway PA, and they pass it as far south as Pittsburgh PA - via the national traffic system.

The only person I know personally that is involved in Pete Carr - WW3O
You might have read one or more of his articles in QST Magazine.
I think Pete says they do it in the morning.
Not enough traffic anymore to sit there and do it all day.
I don't even know what kind of traffic they pass.
I think they only do it to keep the system up and running in case of a emergency.

If you want people to participate with - I would tone down the attitude...
There is still some good guys out there, but most of the old HAMS - pre No Code - are DEAD, and the ones that still has the radios on are not the same hams you remember from 20 - 30 years ago.

2 meters / 70 CM is unique band.
It is the first place you go when you get your license and the last place you go before they take you to the rest home or the cemetary.
Most real hams won't even use any band that is channeltized...
You are going to find that the kids on the radio today are mostly the walkie talkie crowd, who are not real hams, just want to be's. Who refuses to put up antenna's or buy transceivers or stand up to their old lady to be able to put something in or on or outside of the house.

Sounds like you have been delegated into that crowd.

Your Advanced license tells volumes.
You knew about communications but didn't see any need to go beyond Advanced and probably got mad when they eliminated Advanced and got rid of the code...
That is the consensus of the population here....

Find yourself a Amateur Radio Club and get involved in Amateur Radio - not just the walkie talkie crowd on the 565 simplex or the repeater retards...
Get out the books and study and get your Amateur Extra license and become a VE and give back to Amateur Radio - don't just take!

You will find, if you get involved - you will not feel so jilted and will be less apt to retreat to the 75 and 160 meters, with the other buddy clubs, where all they do is sit and cuss and not use their call signs and act like they are still on the CB radio...