Hi Guys..

First I want to say.. our Prayers or with those in the south that lost their
lives and loved ones and with the survivors of those who lost their lives in
hopes they can somehow put together something of what they had and work
towards fulfillment of their dreams. Which was severely interrupted by the
Hurricane that swept through that region.
I can only say... Not having TV since the 20th of August (lightening Strike
and SLOOOW insurance company) has spared me much of the media hyp of the
catastrophe... I still stop quite often throughout the day and just want to
cry for those who are suffering and continue to suffer this great
hardship... Makes one realise just how little we actually have to complain
about..

Saw this on our Packet Net.. See **** BELOW Sure was easy to get over HF
PACKET.. Not sure where they get their ideas.. But let me tell you a story..
most of you are familiar.
on 8-20-05 our home was hit with lightening, actually it was a direct hit on
my 10 meter antennas.. We were all knocked on our butts and we very set back
by the experience.. I found after making sure all of us were ok... That
Amongst a lot of other damaged devices.. That Most of my HF BBS which I host
here at my home (W9OTR and N9LYA ) were virtually blown away... However, due
to the low costs involved by the ability to use low end PCs and just about
any HF rig and the fact that TNC's are a dime a dozen.. I was able to get 3
out of 5 HF ports back in operation the same day, in fact within an hour the
first one was back on line the second within 3 hours. . The Third before
night fall, and 4th took a bit longer and VHF was up and down over the next
few days.. Today 9-2-05 the station is 100% again.. however I consolidated
W9OTR and N9LYA into one BBS. for now. It has 4 HF 2 VHF and 1 UHF ports
all originally built on the low end of the cost equation. And all replaced
out of spare parts that I had on hand and had accumulated on the used
markets mostly via eBay.. Except for one radio my Icom2100H which I bought
new on EBay at an extreme discount. I personally fund all radio activity
here at home for the HARDS group.. and we work together to help one another
out.. I had many offers of equipment form those in our grup that I am
convinced that even with 100% loss I could have been back on line as fast as
equipemnt could have been delivered. I was not the first in our group to
take a lightening hit.. WB3DTG took a big hit a week or two before me and
had his staion partially back on air within days/ I am now forwarding with
him on two ports again.. Not sure of his status today, as far as anything
new.. But he is coming in here real well on HF. And is actively masking
repairs. I reaallyu doubt too many would have the funds to replace P4 boxes
and SCS Pactor III Modems prior to an insurance payout. Thus why I only use
low end equipment that works great with Packet and allows me to share
messages and traffic with those who run Packet/Pactor systems like wb3dtg.
Do not get me wrong... I have and plan to continue to experiement with the
faters modes.. But my system will always be based on HF Packet ....Read on.

I challenge anyone to take a modern high speed data system and expand it
into a multiported HF BBS (message handling system) which must be run on
high end PC's with Highend HF gear. As well as a lot of the proprietary
modes that require high priced Controllers ... To build and sustain a system
for years. And then suffer a third of the damage I suffered and rebuild it
without taking out a mortgage on your home... I spent all of $200 to get
back to 100% And was at 80% same day within hours of strike.. even though
the wife and I had both been hit by the EMP of the lightening.. This would
have rendered most system off air for the wait for Insurance and new parts
to be ordered and delivered.. Not so with Packet.. it is viable and can be
had by most hams on a budget... To Ban HF Packet one might as well BAN CW..
It won't happen.. It can't happen.. Or the Systems in place will be too
fragile at best..
I am not saying the New modes are not good most are... PSK31 Q15X25 Pactor I
Are all good..
These augment our national and worldwide network infrastructure...But they
cannot and will never replace Packet without cutting out a majority of Hams
who operate their stations for personal as well as Volunteer reasons for
emcomms and the general communications of hams on their OWN worldwide
network.. As they will be under budget to setup and maintain a system that
can be both robust and efficient as well as easily replaced within hours...

I believe the IARU Region I DV05-C4-14 author is not knowledgeable in this
area and has no clue what packet can and does do .... I invite him to please
consider talking with us and letting us explain and by example show him that
Packet Radio is the Root means of the worldwide HF Digital Network. And
without it the Ham Community will be seriously cutting back on its
resources...

Let us explain and show why his statements about propagation and QRM are
false and those opinions of the misinformed. Packet radio has been and
always ignored by the ARRL as well and all their marbles were put in to the
TOR modes.. For the ARRL to only end up with not... And yet the Packet
Network has suffered but yet sustained itself by those hams who dedicate
themselves to building and maintaining the Worldwide Network.

Example.. Our system today and prior to and during the Hurricane that Hit
the Gulf Coast were directly linked to a number of Packet Stations at
Emergency Locations.. Example is New Orleans W5OEP Station in the New
Orleans Emergency Radio Club Stationed at their Emergency Shelter.. With
Beams and other types of antennas on the roof of several tall buildings, and
Battery Backups.. The stations have run throughout the emergency linked to
our Packet Network via several bands and frequencies. This is due to the
inherent low costs of such systems.. take the typical Winlink PMBO.. Avg
$5000. For radios proprietary controllers, software Internet connections
etc... we can do the same with packet for considerably less.. Lets see.. no
internet needed, HAMS use Radios. A ts 520 can be had for $100 on eBay xtled
for $20 and an homemade inverted V can be made for less tem $40 a KAM TNC
Used at EBay for $75 and a PC IBM XT class or better FREE MSYS Software and
you have an HF Packet Station... It can had additional equipment for
multiport Multi BBS system and national hubs.. Or you can just have a casual
user station... I do not see the logic in cutting ones head off in spite of
their face.. If you do not like Packet you do not have to use it..If you
strictly want to use a Faster Newer mode and have the funds to do so ..
Fine.. Add a Packet port and work with us not against us... There are times
here when with my many HF ports messages are being sent in and out at a high
rate of speed... Over several bands as the bands are open and closed at
differing times of day... I offered this same scenario to the Winlink2K
Group... Work with us not against us... Only to be ridiculed.. I see it as
their lack of knowledge of the digital arts ... And just a wanton act of
conspiracy to kill any direct competition... Money flying between someones
hands. They know packet is a great competitor and with the advent of the
faster modes ran by those who have the funds to augment their packet systems
or those who have no desire to run packet but will link with those that do..
We can make the HAM RADIO Digital Network a great thing.. Far superior to
any single mode or modes.. Think of Packet Networking as a low and high cost
system... Fully compatable within and of itself.. It can be fully isolated
from teh WIREline.. Wheich is where everyone seems to be headed.. Let me ask
a question.. Any phones or wired modes working in New Orleans LA..

Now I see why the CW ops are saying the removal of CW as a requirement will
mean the death of CW.. It is all too easy to kill something... Man is a
great destroyer.. What we need here is cooperation, Creativeness and a new
level of invention... The problems with packet in the 80's and 90's were
that everyone wanted speed and more speed.. they wanted the Internet type
things... But did not want to spend the money on equipment to go faster VIA
RADIO... Why would they want to spend that Money now.. When they have all
THEY want on the internet... That is all fine and good for them.. If they
want to chat live with uncle Bill or aunt gracie via VOiP thats ok.. If they
want to talk to an other HAM on VOiP thats their business, As long as it
does not replace Ham RADIO... What I propose is we finally do what I
envisioned in the 90's.... Enhance packet radio with faster modes... For
those with the financial means make it happen. For those on a budget work
with what you can.. Compatability is the KEY. Compatability does not mean it
must be SLOW... Those who make the faster modes work can work on way to cut
costs... Experiment with faster packet, on HF. Continue working on
soundcards BBS Software,.. Experiment with BBS Software that will allow
Pactor Packet a form of Q15X25 being worked with now by my good friend N5PVL
on 18 MHz.. I will let him add what this does for HF Throughput... We are
breaking new ground with faster modes.. But they are all compatible with
Packet AX25 on HF... Unlike the expensive WINLINK2000 which is not.

As far as the comments about better immunity against propagation problems
and co-channel QRM... That is simply not that big a problem.. Multi HF Ports
help Proagation. Yes QRM is but by far mostly Pactor Robots tend to not
listen first and destroys a packet link out right.... Packet uses carrier
sensing. to know when a channel is in use.. Pactor only senses Pactor..

See www.USPacket.Org the only truly almost live updated Packet information
Website. Look around and enjoy.

I urge all HAMS and others in our group to please add to my statements, all
facts that will show or substantiate our claims or their claims.. I believe
you will see.. The truth..

Let us get off our butts and quit trying to KILL HAM RADIO and work together
for a change to make it the Greatest thing since sliced Bread.

Our prayers are witth our fellow HAMS and brothers and sisters who are in
the Hurricane Ravaged areas.. And that they get their lives back to some
form of reason as soon as possible.

73 Jerry Kutche N9LYA
Trustee HARDS Hoosier Amateur Radio Digital Society W9OTR "We make Ham radio
Easy" Dedicated to the preservation and enhansement of the Worldwide Digital
Network.
ARRL Net Manger Indiana Section
Net Manager ARRL Skipnets NET 40E and NET147E
MSYS BBS Sysop of W9OTR/W9BBS/K9BBS/N9LYA Full Service Packet Radio BBS and
Midwest US Packet Forwarding HUB.
Director USPacket.Net
Member SPAR www.spar-ham.org
Member TAPR
Member ISCET
Memeber ARRL
Member ARES
www.w9otr.org
www.n9lya.com
www.USPacket.Org




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International Amateur Radio Union Region 1 Europe, Middle East, Africa and
Northern Asia Founded 1950 General Conference, Davos, 11 to 16 September
2005 SUBJECT Abandonment of Packet Radio on HF (AX25 standard with 300 Baud,
200 Hz shift) Society DARC Country: Germany Committee: C4 Paper number: 14
Contact: Ulrich Mueller, DK4VW e-mail: Introduction This paper
recommends to discontinue the operation of packet radio mailboxes and
gateways on HF and explains why. Background Although packet radio mode made
it possible in the eighties to run new things like mailboxes, gateways etc.,
packet radio never was an adequate mode for the existing conditions on HF
bands. Problems with packet radio mode were learned by practice and proofed
by closer theoretical studies. Later other modes have been developed (first
AMTOR, then PACTOR, PSK31, MT63, just to mention some) which could handle
e.g. messages exchange with better immunity against propagation problems,
co-channel QRM etc. all of them show a better data throughput. Keypoints
Replacing packet radio by better modes would result in more reliable links
between stations involved, improving the use of the designated spectrum.
Resolution The IARU region 1 band plan should not specify any special
segments for packet radio anymore. IARU member societies should encourage
their members to abandon packet radio (AX25 standard with 300 Baud, 200 Hz
shift) operation on HF. DV05_C4_14 DARC Packet radio on HF 1

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 21:52:54 -0500, Jerry wrote:

Hi Guys..

*SNIP*

Great post Jerry.

Best 73 de Mike VE6HMG