As in most new developments there are some who cling to the old true and
tried way...you know the biggest obstacle to progress is resistance to
change. It's not just in basic things but it's true in science as well as
just trying to get an employee to do a task in a production area different
than the way he has been doing it for years.

Now, you argue that using echolink is not using HAM radio...I beg to differ.
Just this morning while sitting at my computer I had a little rag chew with
one gentlemen in Tucson who was walking around with his HT...was he using
HAM radio....was I using HAM radio....was it pure HAM radio....the answer to
the first two questions is yes and the answer to the last is NO. It was a
marriage of HAM radio with the net. My opinion is that we will see much more
progress in this area.
I guess another question to you is when I use one of those silver box sets
from Kenwood, which has the circuits of the transceiver built into the
silver box but no external controls....I have to use the computer to control
the silver box...is that HAM radio?

73
Ray Herron
WA0LQT
"Dr. A.T. Squeegee" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

Charles,

I see that you don't much care for progress....or are you just always
ornery...bet those who used smoke signals felt the same way when more
modern
forms of communication came along.

snippety

As ornery as Charles' reply was (yes, it could have been phrased
much better) he does have one valid point: 'Internet' and 'Ham Radio'
are two entirely different mediums. Always have been, always will be.

IRLP, as I see it, is just a way to get repeater linking done
independent of the restrictions of site-based link transceivers. After
all, the 'L' in IRLP does stand for 'Linking.'

In short: IRLP has its uses, but it will never replace true radio
work.


--
Dr. Anton Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute
(Known to some as Bruce Lane, KC7GR)
kyrrin a/t bluefeathertech d-o=t c&o&m
Motorola Radio Programming & Service Available -
http://www.bluefeathertech.com/rf.html
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)

"Gene Storey" wrote in message
Sounds like cheating.

Kinda -- but you still have to break the pileup -- and the pileup is almost
instantaneous when the spot hits the reporting networks. with hundreds or
thousands calling.

The purist abhors the spotting networks -- tunes and searches on his/her
own. May take years to achieve DXCC Honor roll this way -- but many have
done it. Sure helps to have a full legal limit amp and a 100 foot tower
loaded with stacked long john beams.

But if DX spotting networks are cheating -- what about the DX Nets which
spoon feed the hungry crowd ??

Ah DX IS !!!


And what about football -- where some spotter in the stands -- reports a
weak spot in the other teams line ????
--
73 From The Wilderness Keyboard
"Gene Storey" wrote in message
news:OEqCb.1618$pm5.11@okepread01...
Sounds like cheating.


"Keyboard In The Wilderness" wrote
DX spotting networks are via packet radio or over the internet with
telnet.
Hams around the world report other DX stations freq, mode, etc. Used to
spot
rare DX or during contests

See URL for a sample:
http://oh2aq.kolumbus.com/dxs/oldlook.html?

Some discussions at URL:
http://outadaloop.com/LIVE10.htm

--
73 From The Wilderness Keyboard
==========================
"Gene Storey" wrote in message
news:JEeCb.648$z74.287@okepread03...
"Hank Oredson" wrote


What's a DX spotting network? I don't do contests, so
I'm kind of ignorant about being a paper hanger.

"Gene Storey" wrote in message
Sounds like cheating.

Kinda -- but you still have to break the pileup -- and the pileup is almost
instantaneous when the spot hits the reporting networks. with hundreds or
thousands calling.

The purist abhors the spotting networks -- tunes and searches on his/her
own. May take years to achieve DXCC Honor roll this way -- but many have
done it. Sure helps to have a full legal limit amp and a 100 foot tower
loaded with stacked long john beams.

But if DX spotting networks are cheating -- what about the DX Nets which
spoon feed the hungry crowd ??

Ah DX IS !!!


And what about football -- where some spotter in the stands -- reports a
weak spot in the other teams line ????
--
73 From The Wilderness Keyboard
"Gene Storey" wrote in message
news:OEqCb.1618$pm5.11@okepread01...
Sounds like cheating.


"Keyboard In The Wilderness" wrote
DX spotting networks are via packet radio or over the internet with
telnet.
Hams around the world report other DX stations freq, mode, etc. Used to
spot
rare DX or during contests

See URL for a sample:
http://oh2aq.kolumbus.com/dxs/oldlook.html?

Some discussions at URL:
http://outadaloop.com/LIVE10.htm

--
73 From The Wilderness Keyboard
==========================
"Gene Storey" wrote in message
news:JEeCb.648$z74.287@okepread03...
"Hank Oredson" wrote


What's a DX spotting network? I don't do contests, so
I'm kind of ignorant about being a paper hanger.

"Gene Storey" wrote in message
news:gDwCb.1580$z74.949@okepread03...
"charlesb" wrote

That's right Gene... When the facts do not support your pet position or
protocol, you can always go for the mindless personal attacks.

Unlike yourself, of course.

I predict that in 2004, a manufacturer will produce a ham radio that has
a built-in network Wi-Fi and that's how you will control the radio, and
pass audio to it. It will either be a proprietary application, or you will
use a Netmeeting type of vocoder software.


Good idea.
Use 13 cm. for the control link.

Oh wait, people are already doing that on many different
VHF / UHF / SHF bands.

Nothing to see here, move along.

--

... Hank

Hank: http://horedson.home.att.net
W0RLI: http://w0rli.home.att.net

"Gene Storey" wrote in message
news:gDwCb.1580$z74.949@okepread03...
"charlesb" wrote

That's right Gene... When the facts do not support your pet position or
protocol, you can always go for the mindless personal attacks.

Unlike yourself, of course.

I predict that in 2004, a manufacturer will produce a ham radio that has
a built-in network Wi-Fi and that's how you will control the radio, and
pass audio to it. It will either be a proprietary application, or you will
use a Netmeeting type of vocoder software.


Good idea.
Use 13 cm. for the control link.

Oh wait, people are already doing that on many different
VHF / UHF / SHF bands.

Nothing to see here, move along.

--

... Hank

Hank: http://horedson.home.att.net
W0RLI: http://w0rli.home.att.net

"Gene Storey" wrote in message
news:JEeCb.648$z74.287@okepread03...
"Hank Oredson" wrote

I've done a bit of research over the past year.
Notes are in a folder in the left-hand desk drawer.
If you want to see them you have to come visit.

Valuable research I'm sure...

I'll sell you some.

Pretty simple to check the callsigns (where the poster
actually admits to having a callsign) against databases
like the DX spotting networks.

What's a DX spotting network? I don't do contests, so
I'm kind of ignorant about being a paper hanger.


Where did I say anything about contests?
Seems you are ignorant about other things as well.
English for example ... you know ... "... like ...".

--

... Hank

Hank: http://horedson.home.att.net
W0RLI: http://w0rli.home.att.net

"Gene Storey" wrote in message
news:JEeCb.648$z74.287@okepread03...
"Hank Oredson" wrote

I've done a bit of research over the past year.
Notes are in a folder in the left-hand desk drawer.
If you want to see them you have to come visit.

Valuable research I'm sure...

I'll sell you some.

Pretty simple to check the callsigns (where the poster
actually admits to having a callsign) against databases
like the DX spotting networks.

What's a DX spotting network? I don't do contests, so
I'm kind of ignorant about being a paper hanger.


Where did I say anything about contests?
Seems you are ignorant about other things as well.
English for example ... you know ... "... like ...".

--

... Hank

Hank: http://horedson.home.att.net
W0RLI: http://w0rli.home.att.net

"Dr. A.T. Squeegee" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

"Dr. A.T. Squeegee" wrote in message
...

IRLP, as I see it, is just a way to get repeater linking done
independent of the restrictions of site-based link transceivers.

My feeling is that "hams" who feel that using radio is a "restriction"
should consider moving on to another hobby.

Tell you what, Charles. When you come up with a method for making
a link transceiver pair operate reliably, over a single hop, from, say,
Seattle, Washington to Pensacola, Florida, you go ahead and let us all
know, OK? Heck, QST will probably be clamoring for the article on it.
;-)

As for moving on... Naaah. I've been part of the ham radio scene
since 1977. I'm having a blast with it, and I'm not about to stop any
time soon.

There's balance to be found in everything. IRLP has its place, as
does Echolink, but they will never replace radio as a communications
medium. They are merely new tools to increase the usability of the radio
medium.

Methinks a couple of passages from 'The Amateur's Code' are
appropriate here.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

The Amateur is Progressive

Keeping their station abreast of science.

Yup. Radio science ... you did understand that, right?

It is well-built and efficient, and ALL operating practice is above
reproach.

Yup. The Amateur uses radio.

The Amateur is Friendly

Indeed!
Note that this forum is not radio.

Slow and patient sending when requested,
friendly advice and counsel to the beginner,
kindly assistance, co-operation and consideration for the interests of
others; these are marks of the amateur spirit.

Yes indeed.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Maybe you should have asked me what "restrictions" I was talking
about before making snap assumptions, hmmmm? ;-)

What "restrictions" are you talking about?

73 de KC7GR



--

... Hank

Hank: http://horedson.home.att.net
W0RLI: http://w0rli.home.att.net

"Dr. A.T. Squeegee" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

"Dr. A.T. Squeegee" wrote in message
...

IRLP, as I see it, is just a way to get repeater linking done
independent of the restrictions of site-based link transceivers.

My feeling is that "hams" who feel that using radio is a "restriction"
should consider moving on to another hobby.

Tell you what, Charles. When you come up with a method for making
a link transceiver pair operate reliably, over a single hop, from, say,
Seattle, Washington to Pensacola, Florida, you go ahead and let us all
know, OK? Heck, QST will probably be clamoring for the article on it.
;-)

As for moving on... Naaah. I've been part of the ham radio scene
since 1977. I'm having a blast with it, and I'm not about to stop any
time soon.

There's balance to be found in everything. IRLP has its place, as
does Echolink, but they will never replace radio as a communications
medium. They are merely new tools to increase the usability of the radio
medium.

Methinks a couple of passages from 'The Amateur's Code' are
appropriate here.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

The Amateur is Progressive

Keeping their station abreast of science.

Yup. Radio science ... you did understand that, right?

It is well-built and efficient, and ALL operating practice is above
reproach.

Yup. The Amateur uses radio.

The Amateur is Friendly

Indeed!
Note that this forum is not radio.

Slow and patient sending when requested,
friendly advice and counsel to the beginner,
kindly assistance, co-operation and consideration for the interests of
others; these are marks of the amateur spirit.

Yes indeed.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Maybe you should have asked me what "restrictions" I was talking
about before making snap assumptions, hmmmm? ;-)

What "restrictions" are you talking about?

73 de KC7GR



--

... Hank

Hank: http://horedson.home.att.net
W0RLI: http://w0rli.home.att.net

"Traveler" wrote in message
...
As in most new developments there are some who cling to the old true and

What "new development"?

tried way...you know the biggest obstacle to progress is resistance to
change. It's not just in basic things but it's true in science as well as
just trying to get an employee to do a task in a production area different
than the way he has been doing it for years.

You, like many if not most of the IRLP appologists miss the point.

As with the digital networks, once you start rely on the crutch of
a commercial service to carry your "Ham Radio" communications,
slowly but certainly the Ham Radio portion will disappear.

Now, you argue that using echolink is not using HAM radio...I beg to differ.

Beg all you like, you are still wrong.

The point was not "Are you using Ham Radio?" but rather "Did you
require the use of a commercial service to carry your communication?"

Just this morning while sitting at my computer I had a little rag chew with
one gentlemen in Tucson who was walking around with his HT...was he using
HAM radio....was I using HAM radio....was it pure HAM radio....the answer to
the first two questions is yes and the answer to the last is NO. It was a
marriage of HAM radio with the net. My opinion is that we will see much more
progress in this area.
I guess another question to you is when I use one of those silver box sets
from Kenwood, which has the circuits of the transceiver built into the
silver box but no external controls....I have to use the computer to control
the silver box...is that HAM radio?

Wrong question.
Just another stupid obfuscation.

73
Ray Herron
WA0LQT

--

... Hank

Hank: http://horedson.home.att.net
W0RLI: http://w0rli.home.att.net