Thierry wrote:

You partly right but this is well what I said in my post. The problem I
speak about is completely different.
As usual your comments are out of subject and from what I read you don't
even know the problem trying to compare wmy request to "CB". ! It is a pity
that an ham has a so bad ham spirit....

The real pity is in the fact that a ham has such a ****-poor
understanding of how SSB modulation works. Furthermore, if you want to
talk "out of subject", perhaps you might want to check your own messages
on rec.radio.* forums. Also, if you choose to interpret replies to your
messages that don't kiss your ass as "bad ham spirit", that's your
prerogative. Now back to the topic:

The reason I don' have 100W on SSB is due to the audio limiter so by
bypassing it I can get 100 w whatever your (false) opinion in that matter.
This is nothing to do with the compressor...

This is a complete bull****. How do you know you don't have 100W on SSB?
Have you used an accurate laboratory standard peak-reading wattmeter? Do
you understand the nature of the SSB voice modulation? It is unrealistic
to expect that your general purpose amateur radio wattmeter will
indicate 100W during a normal SSB transmission. Just a reminder: an SSB
voice transmission transmits a modulated signal that has a dynamic
response of 20-30 dB, which means that the peak power of plosives will
be fairly close to 100W while fricatives, nasals and vowels will produce
anywhere from 0.1W to 100W, depending on your speech (which, in turn,
depends on the language, sex, physiognomy and many other individual
factors).
You want us to believe that although Kenwood provides a technical
specification for its transceivers (TS-570 included) that claims 100W
output on all amateur bands and in CW, SSB, FM and FSK modes, they fail
to deliver on this specification because they employ an "audio limiter",
so the way to get full power out of the rig is to bypass this circuit???

An accessory plug can bypass audio and therefore left the mic connector
unchanged so I can either use the TS570D in the standard way or connect a
mic to the accessory plug and operate full power SSB.

In other words, you can use an accessory DIN connector in the back to
input audio instead of going through the mike plug. The problem is that
this input goes to the same spot as the mike audio input. But, wait,
here's a magic solution:

The mod is relatively simple and requires a jumber and the removal of 3 or 4
smt components.
Of course this is not thanks to you that I had this information that may
interest others hams. Others did hopefully.

And here we go, just what I was talking about when I said you were
wasting time on CB-like schemes - that band is full of "experts" who
"increase" their power by employing all kinds of charlatan mumbo-jumbo
techniques, from audio boosters to magical 30 dB gain antennas. The
results are obvious for anyone who ever bothered to listen to that ****
when they illegally encroach on our 10 meter band.

Now you come along and make an ass of yourself first by completely
misunderstanding how SSB power is measured, then by modifying a properly
functioning rig with what can only be interpreted as a mod to eliminate
the ALC circuitry. The result will be your signal splattered all over
the bands and an increase in TVI.
Last, but not least, even if what I said was completely untrue, even if
you were able to magically "increase" your SSB power from, say 70W to
100W, this increase in power would result in the astoundingly lame 1.5
dB!!! And this at the expense of splattering the bands?

I told you once and I'll tell you again: build a better antenna instead
of wasting time on CB-like schemes.



73 .... WA7AA



--

Anti-spam measu look me up on qrz.com if you need to reply directly

"Ed G." wrote in message
. ..


Question for Thierry: Can I assume you have a "Peak" reading
wattmeter? Otherwise, you are aware, I hope, that most wattmeters are
"average" power reading and that they can not display the peak readings of
a SSB transmitted signal.... thus they will never display close to the
100watts of a 100watt rated SSB signal; unless you are modulating the
transmitter with a test tone audio source.

Hi Ed,

Yes for sure. But I think that it rather displays the "instantaneous"
modulation not an average because when I shout at the mic or using the key
the nidddle reaches immediately the maximum without delay and speaking
normally I emit about 40-60 watts only, moving up and down at the rate of my
words.

This is not really a "problem" of power or with the microphone or even with
the compression level, because Kenwood made some tests for me and confirmed
that hardware speaking the emitter and the microphone were OK, whatever the
mode, see my EXCEL sheet with power measurements,
http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry/qsl-ts570-3.htm (end first screen).

But comparing to others TX (i.e. TS440S) there is a huge difference when
speaking at the mic.
My TS570D and Yaesu 1000MP (reduced at 100W) give about 60W instead of 100W
in SSB speaking normally, conversely to TS440S and many olders that give all
their full power, without having made any modification on the RTX.

I have not tested many rigs, but it seems that the audio of olders models
(made 20 years ago) was manufactured differently from the new one (last 5
years), may be is this justify to protect a relay or another component, I
don't know.
But the problem is that I bough a 100W emitter and not a 60W...

I will soon get the modification to make using the accessory plug in order
to not modify the mic itself.

Thierry

PS. And for those who wonder why I do not do "CB" (??) or buy a beam, I
already use a 4 ele beam... and sorry for the ones that confuse ham and CB,
I do not share at all any passion for the 11m like them.





Ed

"Ed G." wrote in message
. ..


Question for Thierry: Can I assume you have a "Peak" reading
wattmeter? Otherwise, you are aware, I hope, that most wattmeters are
"average" power reading and that they can not display the peak readings of
a SSB transmitted signal.... thus they will never display close to the
100watts of a 100watt rated SSB signal; unless you are modulating the
transmitter with a test tone audio source.

Hi Ed,

Yes for sure. But I think that it rather displays the "instantaneous"
modulation not an average because when I shout at the mic or using the key
the nidddle reaches immediately the maximum without delay and speaking
normally I emit about 40-60 watts only, moving up and down at the rate of my
words.

This is not really a "problem" of power or with the microphone or even with
the compression level, because Kenwood made some tests for me and confirmed
that hardware speaking the emitter and the microphone were OK, whatever the
mode, see my EXCEL sheet with power measurements,
http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry/qsl-ts570-3.htm (end first screen).

But comparing to others TX (i.e. TS440S) there is a huge difference when
speaking at the mic.
My TS570D and Yaesu 1000MP (reduced at 100W) give about 60W instead of 100W
in SSB speaking normally, conversely to TS440S and many olders that give all
their full power, without having made any modification on the RTX.

I have not tested many rigs, but it seems that the audio of olders models
(made 20 years ago) was manufactured differently from the new one (last 5
years), may be is this justify to protect a relay or another component, I
don't know.
But the problem is that I bough a 100W emitter and not a 60W...

I will soon get the modification to make using the accessory plug in order
to not modify the mic itself.

Thierry

PS. And for those who wonder why I do not do "CB" (??) or buy a beam, I
already use a 4 ele beam... and sorry for the ones that confuse ham and CB,
I do not share at all any passion for the 11m like them.





Ed

"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
link.net...
And let us not even broach the subject of 'splatter' caused by overdriving
and the resulting distortion.

Hi,

The few OM knowing the problem and how to solve it, have not speak yet about
distorsion of any kind.
They compared the TS570D with a TS440S that give well all its 100W in SSB.
The second produce not QRM at all and work really fine (over 290 DXCC in
about 4 years without the slightest comment about a bad modulation, QRM or
whatever...

In all cases if there is any risk to blow out a component or to create QRM
or anything else, then indeed I don't really see the advantage of this
modification. But this is too early to conclude and give an opinion.

I am waiting the full explanation about this mod and about its
"side-effects". If you are interested in I will post another message as soon
as I get it.

Thierry
ON4SKY, LX3SKY


Dan/W4NTI

"Ed G." wrote in message
. ..


Question for Thierry: Can I assume you have a "Peak" reading
wattmeter? Otherwise, you are aware, I hope, that most wattmeters are
"average" power reading and that they can not display the peak readings
of
a SSB transmitted signal.... thus they will never display close to the
100watts of a 100watt rated SSB signal; unless you are modulating the
transmitter with a test tone audio source.



Ed

"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
link.net...
And let us not even broach the subject of 'splatter' caused by overdriving
and the resulting distortion.

Hi,

The few OM knowing the problem and how to solve it, have not speak yet about
distorsion of any kind.
They compared the TS570D with a TS440S that give well all its 100W in SSB.
The second produce not QRM at all and work really fine (over 290 DXCC in
about 4 years without the slightest comment about a bad modulation, QRM or
whatever...

In all cases if there is any risk to blow out a component or to create QRM
or anything else, then indeed I don't really see the advantage of this
modification. But this is too early to conclude and give an opinion.

I am waiting the full explanation about this mod and about its
"side-effects". If you are interested in I will post another message as soon
as I get it.

Thierry
ON4SKY, LX3SKY


Dan/W4NTI

"Ed G." wrote in message
. ..


Question for Thierry: Can I assume you have a "Peak" reading
wattmeter? Otherwise, you are aware, I hope, that most wattmeters are
"average" power reading and that they can not display the peak readings
of
a SSB transmitted signal.... thus they will never display close to the
100watts of a 100watt rated SSB signal; unless you are modulating the
transmitter with a test tone audio source.



Ed

Hi,

The few OM knowing the problem and how to solve it, have not speak yet
about
distorsion of any kind.
They compared the TS570D with a TS440S that give well all its 100W in SSB.

Sorry it was not a 440S but well a TS840S.

Thierry

Hi,

The few OM knowing the problem and how to solve it, have not speak yet
about
distorsion of any kind.
They compared the TS570D with a TS440S that give well all its 100W in SSB.

Sorry it was not a 440S but well a TS840S.

Thierry

Thierry wrote:

"Ed G." wrote in message
. ..


Question for Thierry: Can I assume you have a "Peak" reading
wattmeter? Otherwise, you are aware, I hope, that most wattmeters are
"average" power reading and that they can not display the peak readings of
a SSB transmitted signal.... thus they will never display close to the
100watts of a 100watt rated SSB signal; unless you are modulating the
transmitter with a test tone audio source.

Hi Ed,

Yes for sure. But I think that it rather displays the "instantaneous"
modulation not an average because when I shout at the mic or using the key
the nidddle reaches immediately the maximum without delay and speaking
normally I emit about 40-60 watts only, moving up and down at the rate of my
words.

This is not really a "problem" of power or with the microphone or even with
the compression level, because Kenwood made some tests for me and confirmed
that hardware speaking the emitter and the microphone were OK, whatever the
mode, see my EXCEL sheet with power measurements,
http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry/qsl-ts570-3.htm (end first screen).

But comparing to others TX (i.e. TS440S) there is a huge difference when
speaking at the mic.
My TS570D and Yaesu 1000MP (reduced at 100W) give about 60W instead of 100W
in SSB speaking normally, conversely to TS440S and many olders that give all
their full power, without having made any modification on the RTX.

I have not tested many rigs, but it seems that the audio of olders models
(made 20 years ago) was manufactured differently from the new one (last 5
years), may be is this justify to protect a relay or another component, I
don't know.
But the problem is that I bough a 100W emitter and not a 60W...

I will soon get the modification to make using the accessory plug in order
to not modify the mic itself.

Thierry

PS. And for those who wonder why I do not do "CB" (??) or buy a beam, I
already use a 4 ele beam... and sorry for the ones that confuse ham and CB,
I do not share at all any passion for the 11m like them.




Ed



Just out of curiosity - all these measurements used the same power
meter?

I don't recall ever seeing 100W on SSB with my TS-430, TS-440 or TS-570
when speaking, a steady tone will do it of course.

Dave

Thierry wrote:

"Ed G." wrote in message
. ..


Question for Thierry: Can I assume you have a "Peak" reading
wattmeter? Otherwise, you are aware, I hope, that most wattmeters are
"average" power reading and that they can not display the peak readings of
a SSB transmitted signal.... thus they will never display close to the
100watts of a 100watt rated SSB signal; unless you are modulating the
transmitter with a test tone audio source.

Hi Ed,

Yes for sure. But I think that it rather displays the "instantaneous"
modulation not an average because when I shout at the mic or using the key
the nidddle reaches immediately the maximum without delay and speaking
normally I emit about 40-60 watts only, moving up and down at the rate of my
words.

This is not really a "problem" of power or with the microphone or even with
the compression level, because Kenwood made some tests for me and confirmed
that hardware speaking the emitter and the microphone were OK, whatever the
mode, see my EXCEL sheet with power measurements,
http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry/qsl-ts570-3.htm (end first screen).

But comparing to others TX (i.e. TS440S) there is a huge difference when
speaking at the mic.
My TS570D and Yaesu 1000MP (reduced at 100W) give about 60W instead of 100W
in SSB speaking normally, conversely to TS440S and many olders that give all
their full power, without having made any modification on the RTX.

I have not tested many rigs, but it seems that the audio of olders models
(made 20 years ago) was manufactured differently from the new one (last 5
years), may be is this justify to protect a relay or another component, I
don't know.
But the problem is that I bough a 100W emitter and not a 60W...

I will soon get the modification to make using the accessory plug in order
to not modify the mic itself.

Thierry

PS. And for those who wonder why I do not do "CB" (??) or buy a beam, I
already use a 4 ele beam... and sorry for the ones that confuse ham and CB,
I do not share at all any passion for the 11m like them.




Ed



Just out of curiosity - all these measurements used the same power
meter?

I don't recall ever seeing 100W on SSB with my TS-430, TS-440 or TS-570
when speaking, a steady tone will do it of course.

Dave

"Dave Holford" wrote in message
...

...

Thierry wrote:
Just out of curiosity - all these measurements used the same power
meter?

Yes of course.


I don't recall ever seeing 100W on SSB with my TS-430, TS-440 or TS-570
when speaking, a steady tone will do it of course.

Hi,

This is the first time that we note this problem too and the problem was
detected by chance... :-((
All users are exprimented OM some for decades and never observe this
effect... All told me that indeed their TX cannot emit its full power in SSB
but rather 50-60% in speaking normally. So we were very surprised than one
of us could reach the full power...

Our friend used a TS-840S and some olders and show us at the radioclub what
the matter with its TX.
He nearly reaches and sometimes exceed the 100W...in SSB, something we even
can't get using a yaesu 1000 MP of the last generation !

So as he recently bought the new TS570D he immediately noticed the
difference. Even using an electret microphone (using a battery and known to
boost emissions much more than a dynamic one) he cannot get the full power
of its older TX. Therefore we did some complementary measurements and have
searched for some information. Hence this post and some others

So at first sight I suspected an error in its reading procedure, etc. But
not at all...
Someone having read my TS570D review on Internet explained me that he knew
the problem and how to solve it.

I am waiting now more detail (how to increase the signal and what about QRM,
etc).

Thierry


Dave